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Laqueesha

Terrorist attacks in Moscow, Russia.

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So let's remember the same "terrorism" conducted by Britain against Nothern Ireland, Spain against Basques, India against their separatists and so on.:mad:

As a Briton I would have to say this is exactly the thing I remember when considering terrorism in Russia.

The big difference between Russian forces and Chechen terrorists?

We like the Russians. We can empathise with the position they find themselves in.

Aside from that the government forces in all these examples typically behave in a far more reasonable manner. More humane, more civilised and with more restraint.

That's not to say that bad stuff doesn't happen on their ends, but that it is quite clear that this is not the primary tactics of an overdog and less likely to occour by the hand of a forces politically accountable to their electorate.

In the short term I expect some kinds of knee jerk reactions from the Russians that quite frankly will only add to the tragedy.

Chechens beaten in the street, trigger happy policemen, military reprisals against unrelated parties. Something along one of those lines etc.

That's just human nature.

No world power will ever be free of these kinds of events. It goes with the territory. I think the Russian people are every bit hard enough to take this in their stride....but at the same time it is a human tragedy all the same.

I'm fascinated to see if this is an atrocity big enough to wake the angry bear. If it is there will be hell to pay and no mistake.

---------- Post added at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 PM ----------

The Russian army committed massacres in Chechnya, let them taste some of it

Possibly this will provoke some more.

Russians already know this taste. They don't scare easily and they aren't well known for backing away from a fight.

---------- Post added at 09:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------

So you cannot accept that there may be alot of Chechens who've had thier families killed by Russian action, and might want to take revenge?

Who can ever accept revenge that is to be taken upon your kinfolk?

In the end, however much empathy you feel for your enemy, it's your own boat you need to be rowing.

The Russians have very large balls indeed. I don't expect them to be oozing with sympathy and understanding with those who lethally attack them, whatever their motivations.

---------- Post added at 09:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 PM ----------

It's a shame you do not seem to appreciate the value of trying to understand the motives of these terrorists, and tackling these motives, rather than just heaping on more violence and entrenching things even further.

There is a time for understanding and a time for action. While violence begets endless cycles of violence, I do not think that peaceful actions in the face of violent antagonism typically beget peace.

Peace through superior firepower is the most effective and historically successful method.

In the playground one does not seek to understand a bullies motives, one seeks to hit him so hard he thinks twice about attacking you again.

Perhaps after he learns the hard way to stop hitting you, you can empathise with him and make friends, but first things first.

The families of those who have been injured and died need revenge and Russia's enemies need to know fear and start hiding in deeper caves.

To be curtailed.

---------- Post added at 10:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 PM ----------

They wanted a nationalist state? Those bastards.

So did David Koresh.

Wanting a "nationalist state" doesn't mean you can be trusted to have one.

It doesn't mean you deserve one, and it doesn't mean you are acting in the best intrests of all whom the creation of such a state might affect.

Sure it cuts a romantic image. I understand the appeal of fairey tales well enough.

The IRA want a nationalist state in Northern Island too. Only most people in Northern Ireland don't and even if they did, there are ways of getting a nationalist state and ways of trying to get one that are best prevented.

If we look at the glorious Orange revolution in Ukraine for instance we can see a shining example of promoting nationalist freedom for the world. The same with Ghandi's methods.

Or if we look at Yugoslavia we can see a country who's division we broadly support but whose methods of getting it we felt needed prevention.

Oh those romantic freedom loving Chechens! It's too rosey eyed a world view for me Mat old boy. In that region when the shit goes down, it's the Russians that have to deal with it.

A thankless task but a necessary one.

Crowds of French people spat on my dad for being English because of the way we handelled the IRA. Literally, mobs of them spitting and taunting at the ferry in Calais. (And all of us tourists were aghast. We saved them from Hitler! No Irishmen had turned up.).

Why? Because the the IRA were romantic freedom loving republicans. Underdogs, oppressed by the evil empire.

The Americans even sent them guns and bombs and money (Bill Clinton, what a cunt).

Only they weren't romantic dashing liberators any more than the Dalai Lama is a living god. They were ugly and violent oppressors hell bent on personal and political power to be delivered to them through murder, maiming and torture.

Edited by Baff1

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Since I'm from Northern Ireland, I agree, understandably, with Baff1 on the topic of IRA. I do find it truly disgusting that Brits from the mainland were looked down upon in other countries. Thankfully, I wasn't around in the days of the Troubles, and we are fortunately moving on gradually from then. How could anyone give sympathy to anyone causing the deaths and suffering of others?

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I think that was an FSB false flag attack. The FSB did this in Beslan

, so why sould this be doing by some bearded Freaks hidding in the Woods somewhere in chechenia?
But maybe the german media tells you only what you need to know but not what happened really?

There is an Law in the US, that the government prohibit to send Desinformation in the own Country. So hey use the German Media and other Media in other countrys to send it, and the most US Media absorb this Stuff.

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There is an Law in the US, that the government prohibit to send Desinformation in the own Country. So hey use the German Media and other Media in other countrys to send it, and the most US Media absorb this Stuff.

What size tinfoil hat do you wear?

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What size tinfoil hat do you wear?

Thats the same reply he would have get from me :D

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There is an Law in the US, that the government prohibit to send Desinformation in the own Country. So hey use the German Media and other Media in other countrys to send it, and the most US Media absorb this Stuff.

I didnt know Glenn Beck worked for the German media... :rolleyes:

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[/color]

Possibly this will provoke some more.

Russians already know this taste. They don't scare easily and they aren't well known for backing away from a fight.

---------- Post added at 09:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------

They have backed away from Afghanistan, and they were only fighting the Taliban:j:

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The Russian army committed massacres in Chechnya, let them taste some of it

This is above all a condolence thread. Comments like that, approving of terrorism and taking of human life in any way is disgusting. Reported.

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The Russian army committed massacres in Chechnya, let them taste some of it

That comment was uncalled for, infraction +1 for a clear attempt at flamebaiting.

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They have backed away from Afghanistan, and they were only fighting the Taliban

Really? The Russian Federation wasn't created until December 1991 and the Taliban wasn't created until September 1994. Neither of those dates are within the 1980s or late 1970s. Unless you're referring to the Soviet Union and the Mujahideen... :j:

Edited by Laqueesha

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Really? The Russian Federation wasn't created until December 1991 and the Taliban wasn't created until September 1994. Neither of those dates are within the 1980s or late 1970s. Unless you're referring to the Soviet Union and the Mujahideen... :j:

I'd call you a smartass if that remark weren't so stupid. The Soviet Union was a regime in Russia (and its communist neighbors) led by the dominant socialist republic of Russia.

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What size tinfoil hat do you wear?

Where do you live? In La-La-Land?

Governments stage fake terror attacks all the time. That has nothing to do with paranoia, that are the facts.

Watch this Movie, assassination of russia.

Seriosly Guys, what the hell do you thinking? That some bearded Freaks doing this and the Russian Gouvernment will tell the truth?

I didnt know Glenn Beck worked for the German media...

You dont understand what iam trying to telling you about how the media network works.

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That has nothing to do with paranoia, that are the facts.

Facts usually have sources behind them.

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Where do you live? In La-La-Land?

Governments stage fake terror attacks all the time. That has nothing to do with paranoia, that are the facts.

King size tinfoil hats are £600 for a pack of 10 I believe. They're expensive because they protect your brain from the government.

On topic, this is just wrong. Terrorism is one of the worst things that humanity has ever come up with, and, sadly, it doesn't seem like it's going away any time soon.

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What the hell do you talking?

Seams like: "ooouh, look at Dosemais, he distrust the Government, he must be crazy.".

Terrorism is just an thing that chthonic up from the earth, with no bigger reason. its just there and its so, so sad. now get back to bed. the Government has everything under controll. the Government is care about you. go back to sleep. and terrorism is so sad and an inexplicable God's punishment and there is no bigger power structure behinde and the government will protect you from that evil wraith.

Why sould an "Terrorist" doing things that starches the enemy Government?

Its a total fraud.

Facts usually have sources behind them.

So, how you wanna trust in this case? The Russians? The FSB?

Hell no...

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On topic, this is just wrong. Terrorism is one of the worst things that humanity has ever come up with, and, sadly, it doesn't seem like it's going away any time soon.

State terrorism, maybe. Stateless terrorism is like a toothache in a patient with oral cancer.

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CW001 you are ignorant in your short-term perspective of Humanity.

The Founding Fathers of United States of America were terrorists. So were the perpetrators of the French revolution.

Russia doesn't want the above scenarios so they practice other kind of terrorism - false flag, state terrorism.

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The Founding Fathers of United States of America were terrorists. So were the perpetrators of the French revolution.

Terrorism is such a broad word, one can practically assign it to any group or individuals they please. As the old adage goes: "One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist."

What the hell do you talking? [sic]

Seams like: "ooouh, look at Dosemais, he distrust the Government, he must be crazy.". [sic]

Terrorism is just an thing that chthonic up from the earth, with no bigger reason. its just there and its so, so sad. now get back to bed. the Government has everything under controll. the Government is care about you. go back to sleep. and terrorism is so sad and an inexplicable God's punishment and there is no bigger power structure behinde and the government will protect you from that evil wraith. [sic]

Why sould an "Terrorist" doing things that starches the enemy Government? Its a total fraud. [sic]

So, how you wanna trust in this case? The Russians? The FSB? Hell no... [sic]

Let me start off by saying I am not the biggest fan of the FSB here, but you are going to distrust the Russian FSB simply because they are the FSB? So if the FSB says that the sky is blue, you will disagree with them simply because they are the FSB? Come on now, mate. We all know what happened, there was a terrorist attack and many innocent people were killed. In here, that is a given based on several different reliable third-party sources. There are conspiracies in the world today, which everybody knows, but yet not everything that happens is a conspiracy.

This is above all a condolence thread. Comments like that, approving of terrorism and taking of human life in any way is disgusting.

Agreed, let's try to keep a basic level of dignity in here, people.

State terrorism, maybe. Stateless terrorism is like a toothache in a patient with oral cancer.

Interesting take you have there, maturin. But, it isn't too far-fetched.

I'd call you a smartass if that remark weren't so stupid. The Soviet Union was a regime in Russia (and its communist neighbors) led by the dominant socialist republic of Russia.

I respectfully disagree with your statement. The Soviet Union was a collection of several different SSRs and one SFSR, with the Russian SFSR as the most prominent one. Again, the Russian Federation and the Soviet Union are not the same country(ies). The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was very similar to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in the sense that it too was- or is, for that matter- formed up of several different countries, such as Wales, England, Northern Ireland, etc.

Referring to the Soviet Union as Russia is the equivalent of referring to the United Kingdom as England, or referring to the United States of America as California. England is the most prominent member of the United Kingdom in terms of GDP and population, and California is the most prominent state in the United States of America in terms of GDP and population in the United States of America, however they are not interchangable or one and the same.

Again, the Russian Federation and the Soviet Union are not the same country(ies).

Where does this lead us? I was replying to a gentleman that said that Russia backed away from the Taliban in Afghanistan, when there was no independent Russian state in the sense similar to that of the Russian Federation, or any comparable state thereof, to mount a full-scale military invasion of another country during the late 1970s or throughout the 1980s, the time period of the Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan. Nor was there an organization called the Taliban during this time period, as the Taliban was created in the early 1990s after the invasion of the Soviet Union was repelled. The Taliban's indirect predecessor, the Mujahideen, was a similar organization in some aspects, but they again are not the same organization either.

I hope this clears up some misunderstanding(s), and I also hope that you have a wonderful day. :)

P.S. Apologies to anyone for dragging this thread slightly off-topic, just wanted to clear up any misunderstanding(s).

Edited by Laqueesha

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