Some Secop questions

[ladlon 10]

A few questions about the random missions created by the Secop module...

1) What exactly do you need to do to secure a crash site? Usually, the 'secure' gets triggered after I wander around the wreckage a bit, but a recent game couldn't be finished because it wouldn't trigger. There was a wounded guy there, but he wouldn't do anything, regardless of what we did (...kept saying he was busy). I had my medic heal him, but that didn't change anything. The program says that I may need to destroy the wreck, and get any wounded into an ambulance... but I could do neither. Any request for support was answered by a 'Negative...', and I couldn't destroy the copter (threw grenades, shot at it.. and finally got my team to shoot at it too... Actually, I couldn't get them to STOP! Guess I found a bug. Menu assumed they were on 'Hold Fire', as my only option was 'Weapons Free'.

2) How are you supposed to destroy assigned targets? Usually it's a whole little camp, so bullets won't do it... and unlike Battlefield2, grenades WON'T blow up everything! ;) Unless you have a guy with a rocket launcher, I'm not sure how you're expected to destroy everything in the target... aside from calling in an airstrike or artillery.

3) What is the strategy/technique you are supposed to use when escorting friendlies? As soon as you reach them, the run like a bat out of hell, and all you can seemingly do is run after them, trying to keep up! It's impossible to get ahead of them and scope around, so I'm not entirely sure what more you can do but chase after them... which seems kind of pointless.

Thanks in advance!...

[icewindo 27]

2) How are you supposed to destroy assigned targets? Usually it's a whole little camp, so bullets won't do it... and unlike Battlefield2, grenades WON'T blow up everything! ;) Unless you have a guy with a rocket launcher, I'm not sure how you're expected to destroy everything in the target... aside from calling in an airstrike or artillery.

Hm, did you pick up any satchel charges? They work quite well, you can take down whole buildings if properly placed. They take two ammo slots in stock ArmA2 though, so you may want your AIs to carry some and drop them when you need them.

[ladlon 10]

Where would you get those? When I start, I just get dumped into the world, with no supply boxes or seemingly no way to select gear. About all I have is the occasional supply box at enemy camps...sometimes.

[Nielsneo 10]

Hee ladlon.

You don't need to blow up the buildings, just the enemy soldiers(you can shoot them instead if u want:p). I'm guessing a simple "OPFOR not present" trigger controls the objective so just kill all the enemy soldiers at the camp.

For securing the crashsite i'm thinking the same applies as above. When you are at the crashsite make sure there are no more enemy's present. I ussually simply leave when i get my next assignment. No need to wait for an ambulance.

When rescueing hostages again kill all the soldiers and then call for a transport to airlift the hostages out of the AO.

There is also a mission where you need to help a convoy. The convoy will follow a path wich you can't change so make sure that you have a couple of men set to advance and a couple to stay back so you can cover all the bases.That's about all i know. Hope it helps. Good luck.:bounce3:

[ladlon 10]

Well, that's what I thought... but it didn't seem to be the case the last few times I played.

A few times now, I've been assigned to destroy a target, I've killed everyone, but it doesn't trigger anything.

The calling for airlift, ambulance, etc is all done automatically, isn't it? Seems to be when the 'victory' DID actually trigger. When it didn't, I tried to do things like call for medical support, but always got the old 'Negative...' response.

Seems to be failing to trigger most of the time since I started playing the MyMission Secop session, rather than my own similar Secop mission created in the Editor.

Getting frustrated with the controls... I had a hell of a time trying to figure out how to get my guys to attack things. Along with the painfully awkward menu system (since you can't seem to just use the space bar method of selecting a guy, then selecting the target... you can only seem to MOVE to things, not destroy (inanimate) things), often the things I want targeted are not even in the menu Target list.... :mad:

[jakerod 248]

Best way is to scavenge for rpgs and satchels. I do recall needing to blow up radars and fuel tanks I think occasionally. Sometimes the enemy base has crates in it with satchels or a lot of grenades.

[ladlon 10]

The only thing I've found up to now is the green crates where you can rearm. I've seen other types of crates, but they seem to just be 'for show'.

I could probably edit the scenario (the one the sim makers made, not mine) to modify the weapons, by changing the type of guys on my team. Doesn't seem to be any way (in game or via the editor) to actually control the weapons carried.... at least that I found.

Then again, I'm confused about a great many things....

[DnA 3188]

T.R.A.P. should require you to find and reach the crash site. Then, if the aircraft is still intact, you need to destroy it. Finding explosives or launchers can be tricky, but there's usually a bunch of enemies you come across. Try looting them for RPG's (no pun intended ;)).

Each target in Destroy has a specific object or vehicle which is the main target. For the Anti-Air facility it's the Tunguska or Avenger, for the radar site it's the radar, etc. Again, find weapons in crates or on enemies, or steal vehicles.

In Escort you should indeed follow the friendly squad and protect them from enemy patrols. Why they are running that fast I don't know, but perhaps that's due to changes in AI in one of the patches? They should go to combat mode once they spot enemies.

[Nielsneo 10]

Getting frustrated with the controls... I had a hell of a time trying to figure out how to get my guys to attack things. Along with the painfully awkward menu system (since you can't seem to just use the space bar method of selecting a guy, then selecting the target... you can only seem to MOVE to things, not destroy (inanimate) things), often the things I want targeted are not even in the menu Target list.... :mad:

use the function keys to select the men you want or select them all with spacebar. Then move your crosshair towards the enemy you want them to attack, you will see that the crosshair changes to a different icon. The first option in the quick command menu will be "attack that target". click middlemouse button and the selected men will then engage that target whether it's a soldier, an apc or a structure.

[ladlon 10]

Okay, so the consensus is that the explosives needed to destroy things (in a TRAP or Destroy Target mission) are usually found in enemy locations, as opposed to your team having them (either by default, or by some method of equipping your team before the session starts)?

But, if, say, I'm to destroy a communication tower (for example) at a randomly placed Secop mission camp, that camp is the only enemy 'base' (area with potential supplies) that exists in the world at that point (as they are created and removed as needed, with only one mission existing at a time)... So, I guess you need to kill the guys first, then see if that little camp has crates, and if you are lucky enough to find explosives, you use those?

Just seems like most of the time there are no supplies... I had a Destroy Target mission where there were three guys, a bunch of barrels, a (big) crate or two, two big fuel tank type things (one white, one rusted), and a truck. I figured the truck was the 'target', so we managed to destroy that (along with the guys).... but nothing happened (no victory trigger). It didn't seem like we could destroy the barrels or anything... The truck was on fire and 'destroyed'... and no supply crates were around.

Only thing that finally triggered the victory was when I called up my A-10 (..I coded an A-10 to be able to become part of the team temporarily, via a radio command)... and ordered it to.... attack a barrel (as I the fuel tank things were not available on the target list... so I figured an A-10 attack on something near it might do enough splash damage, so to speak, to the fuel tank.

Sure enough, when the A-10 struck the barrel (...well, the general area of the camp!), victory was triggered.

I don't really get it...

@Nielsneo: Ya, that's how I do things with movement and targeting soldiers/tanks, etc... but it doesn't seem to work for things like fuel tanks, buildings, etc (...only allows you to Move To).

[jakerod 248]

Are you playing the SECOP mission under My Missions>Combat? If so #5 has two satchel charges on him. When you pick your insertion point if you double click and then go to empty ammo you can also put down ammo crates.

[ladlon 10]

Ya, I'm doing the Combat thing. I normally just go in, and not edit the insertion point. I'll check that out.

Ah, so #5's been holding out on me, eh!?

Can you command him to use the charges, or do I have to get them from him somehow and do it myself?

[jakerod 248]

You can command him using the action menu. After you have him place them though I would move away from the area. The AI tends to either set a timer or blows them up automatically when they get far enough a way I don't know which one. You can also use the action menu ( 6 ) to have him touch them off too.

Or you can go to your map>units>find 5>gear and have him drop them so you can grab them.

[ladlon 10]

Hrmm... I'm definitely going to have to fire up Arma2 and experiment on that.

Will a 'Set Charges' type of menu item appear, or just a general 'Attack This' type of thing? I would have thought it would only be an Attack This command... but then I wondered how you specify what weapon to use.

So many little elements of Arma2 that I don't know about... partially due to the lack of a full manual.

Gets more and more interesting with each discovery...

[jakerod 248]

Hrmm... I'm definitely going to have to fire up Arma2 and experiment on that.

Will a 'Set Charges' type of menu item appear, or just a general 'Attack This' type of thing? I would have thought it would only be an Attack This command... but then I wondered how you specify what weapon to use.

So many little elements of Arma2 that I don't know about... partially due to the lack of a full manual.

Gets more and more interesting with each discovery...

I think it says Place Satchel Charge or something like that. Yeah there are a lot of undocumented things. I've been playing BIS games since OFP and I still learn new things every so often.

[Nielsneo 10]

@Nielsneo: Ya, that's how I do things with movement and targeting soldiers/tanks, etc... but it doesn't seem to work for things like fuel tanks, buildings, etc (...only allows you to Move To).

That's because objects like barrels or buildings don't have a side state. They don't belong to BLUFOR,OPFOR,Independant or anyone, so your men have no reason to attack them. The last time i played i just killed the soldiers and my AT soldier took care of the truck. strange. I remember the first time i played that template mission i got a little overzealous and used artillery on it. Man there was absolutly nothing left of the camp. Maybe something to consider as a last resort kind of thing. Good luck.

[ladlon 10]

Ya, that's how I usually win the Destroy Target missions... Call in an airstrike or artillery. Bit of a waste, though... since (with the guys dead) there is no urgency to do a quick, overpowering destroy.

There's also a good chance that I'm uncovering the errors or limitations of the AI and game logic overall, since I'm kind of doing my own thing (due to my current lack of understanding of proper approach/battle technique)!

I wouldn't be surprised. I seem to be really good at finding bugs, since I seem to do things differently. I should be a playtester!

[ladlon 10]

Tried it out last night (satchel)... Yup, you're right, there is a command deep in the Action command.

Only thing is, I assumed you select that while pointing where the charge should be placed (...kind of a Place Charge Here command...)... but I didn't see anyone run over to the car I was pointed at, and place anything. I went to do the command again, and saw the command for detonating it, and figured 'Okay, a glitch or something. Didn't show the guy, but it's set'. So, out of curiosity, I told him to detonate....whereupon we all got blown up! (...since, as I quickly realized, the Set Charge command sets the charge where the guy is currently standing, not where you are pointing!)

So, I guess you need to tell the guy to move to where you want it set, then have him set the charge. A bit awkward (compared to a point to where you want it set type of thing), but it works....

BTW, doing all that made me discover the ability to control any of your teammates (...in the sense of becoming them). I did that, and stood there wondering if the sim AI then controls the 'leader' as a leader (...meaning he orders ME around now). No go (which isn't really a surprise, as that would have been brutal AI logic programming, I'm sure!). Still, a bit of a shame... as at least then my squad would be (theoretically) doing proper procedures, and I would essentially be told what to do!

[jakerod 248]

Tried it out last night (satchel)... Yup, you're right, there is a command deep in the Action command.

Only thing is, I assumed you select that while pointing where the charge should be placed (...kind of a Place Charge Here command...)... but I didn't see anyone run over to the car I was pointed at, and place anything. I went to do the command again, and saw the command for detonating it, and figured 'Okay, a glitch or something. Didn't show the guy, but it's set'. So, out of curiosity, I told him to detonate....whereupon we all got blown up! (...since, as I quickly realized, the Set Charge command sets the charge where the guy is currently standing, not where you are pointing!)

So, I guess you need to tell the guy to move to where you want it set, then have him set the charge. A bit awkward (compared to a point to where you want it set type of thing), but it works....

BTW, doing all that made me discover the ability to control any of your teammates (...in the sense of becoming them). I did that, and stood there wondering if the sim AI then controls the 'leader' as a leader (...meaning he orders ME around now). No go (which isn't really a surprise, as that would have been brutal AI logic programming, I'm sure!). Still, a bit of a shame... as at least then my squad would be (theoretically) doing proper procedures, and I would essentially be told what to do!

I've had them give out orders before. Maybe that was only with using First Aid modules though I can't remember. It can be very annoying when you get everyone set up for an ambush and then switch because some guy is stuck or something and then the AI guy ruins the whole thing. I would say be careful about it because I think its happened to me before. Maybe that was in ArmA I though.