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First of all I appreciate you taking time to test it Raunhofer!

They walked this close to me and still in the safe mode... In my mind there was nothing wrong? (distance 34m) In chernarus they spot me from distance of 32m

~30 m is not close :) - IRL a Ghille suit can make you close to invisible (if you not move) and you could stand/walk ontop of a proper trained sniper/scout without knowing it.

Anyway, strange we experiencing different results on the same test, you say they detected you at 32 m also on Chernarus even if you kept absolutely still and not moving a fin?

For me in Test 1 - Hide_in_grass.Chernarus the AI very seldom detects me at all. First a picture to show how low/dense the grass is from first perspective with the mod (this mod does nothing to the grass/clutter on Thirsk and I also tried without just to be sure).

Thirsk_001.jpg

Second picture shows the Russian group passing by 1-2 meters by my side - thats pretty close but I've had AI walking even closer :) - and not detecting me (head down and completely still). As you also can see on this picture the grass/clutter height/density is quite similar to the one you have on Thirsk.

Thirsk_002.jpg

Actually in my mind they should spot me even more easily.

I disagree, see my comment above about a good sniper/scout with his Ghillie suit.

Isn't this the cause of your problems? The AI is still having the higher grass, even you don't...

Don't know exactly how the grass/clutter works internally in regards of the AI but I assumed they used the "simplified grasslayer" introduced in patch 1.04 and don't really use the grass/clutter 3D objects for their LOS calculations to save resources (and also make grasslayer effective for those running Terrain Detail at Very Low) so actuall grass/clutter appearance doesn't really matter, but I could be wrong - anyone knows for sure?.

Guess I have to stick to Chernarus for my sniping/scouting/stealth missions.

Again thanks for taking your time and if you/someone figure things out let me know...

/KC

Edited by KeyCat

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Thirsk_002.jpg

^ In here, you have the situation below for the AI. As the AI is using the chernarus.pbo's configs for the grass and you are using your own mod/addon. For example if you set your terrain detail to very low and the clutter disappears, the AI won't still spot you any easier. Note that these aren't 100% facts, but this is the way I have understood the working of AI.

canuspot.jpg

And isn't that a bit unrealistic :)? In my mind, if the human can spot you, then the AI should too, but hey, this is just my own opinion. Everybody should enjoy playing arma2 on their own style.

I'll try to think more better hiding areas for the snipers to my next project. Thanks for your input, I've learned once again something that to do better in the next island :)

Edited by Raunhofer

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For example if you set your terrain detail to very low and the clutter disappears, the AI won't still spot you any easier. Note that these aren't 100% facts, but this is the way I have understood the working of AI.

Thats why I think the AI doesn't care at all about the actual 3D rendered grass/clutter we as human players see and use the "grasslayer" as mentioned before for their LOS calculations. Maybe there are different heights on that "grasslayer" depending on grass/clutter height/density?

Maybe someone will come in and confirm/clarify this for us?

And isn't that a bit unrealistic :)? In my mind, if the human can spot you, then the AI should too, but hey, this is just my own opinion.

IMO not unrealistic at all! When I play as a sniper/spotter and have a Ghillie suit I expect to be able to blend in with vegetation and become close to invisible if I'm prone and do not move a fin and very very hard to detect if I move slowly (slow crawl) just like a sniper/spotter can do IRL.

A good book to learn more about snipers is Out of Nowhere - A History of the Military Sniper by Martin Pegler and you will be amazed how good these guys are on the art of consealment in various environments.

When it comes to the grass mod (reminds me to wrap it up and release it publicaly) it has to be a compromise, as you know you become almost completely blind if you go prone in the grass on stock Chernarus (a bit overdone IMO). So the goal of the grass mod was to make it possible to still see/aim somewhat while prone but still have grass obscuring your view sometimes so you had to move a little to find a good firing position and also try to keep some of the organic look with various heights of grass etc. In short it boils down to a gameplay issue where stock Chernarus grass/clutter is awesome looking but very annoying to actually play with if you prefer to keep your head down.

Remember that IRL we can easily move our heads/body up/down/left/right just a bit to see over/between grass/branches/etc or we can move/press down grass with body/hands etc. to set up a firing position (and it stays down). Thats not so easy in a computer game where we only have three basic stances - prone, crouch and standing.

Everybody should enjoy playing arma2 on their own style.

Jepp, thats the beauty of ArmA II series, different people enjoys different things. Some want's all out war World War III style, some prefer sneaky missions where you "only" have to take out one single enemy with a well placed single shot and others want's something in between.

I'll try to think more better hiding areas for the snipers to my next project. Thanks for your input, I've learned once again something that to do better in the next island :)

You have done an excellent job on both Japatho and Thirsk and I'm looking forward to whatever you may release next and sorry for my ramblings :)

BTW: Could it be that Thirks just missing that "grasslayer" the AI use for calculating their LOS on grassy areas? Don't ask me what that "layer" actually is since I have no clues about making islands.

/KC

Edited by KeyCat

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BTW: Could it be that Thirks just missing that "grasslayer" the AI use for calculating their LOS on grassy areas? Don't ask me what that "layer" actually is since I have no clues about making islands.

The clutter models and textures are same in Thirsk as they are in Chernarus, so that's why there's actually no difference between AI's behaviour on Thirsk's and Chernarus' grass. (Or shouldn't be)

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I know its bit late but just want to say Thank you for this beautyful island! Testet it now since release. Especially the winter version is unique and very nice for some coops. Performance on both ones is also great.

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The clutter models and textures are same in Thirsk as they are in Chernarus, so that's why there's actually no difference between AI's behaviour on Thirsk's and Chernarus' grass. (Or shouldn't be)

Thanks for clarifying Raunhofer!

Yesterday I did some more tests on Chernarus and the Ghillie suit is actually only effective on the grassy fields. Trying to hide in Chernarus woods gives pretty much the same results as on Thirsk.

Using a simple script to display what surfaceType I concluded this... Ghille suit is only effective on the following surfaces (could be some more CRGrassX classes):

CRGrass1

CRGrass2

CRGrassW1

In Chernarus woods with (surfaceType CRForest1) I was detected at ~40 m, this even if I added (via a testaddon) more grass/clutter than I had on the open fields!?

Running the same script on Thirsk Summer shows the surfaceType as THForest1 and my guess is that it inherits CRForest1 (or use the same) properties.

A possible explanation is that the ArmA II engine engine handles the different surfaceTypes in different ways when it comes to AI's ability to detect you in the grass/clutter, so the "issue" is not in Thirsk (as you already pointed out) but in the ArmA II engine.

Just wanted to share my findings, maybe it can be usefull for your future projects...

/KC

Edited by KeyCat

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Hi, I have a problem with the island,Whenever i load Thirsk Summer my game crashs.But it doesn't on Thirsk Winter.Sorry if someone already asked this.

Any help would be nice.Thanks

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Hi, I have a problem with the island,Whenever i load Thirsk Summer my game crashs.But it doesn't on Thirsk Winter.Sorry if someone already asked this.

Any help would be nice.Thanks

Your summer island is probably corrupted. By re-downloading Thirsk island the problem should go away. Use the 1st post's mirror 1.

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Yep I'll like to say that this is my new Favorite map and my clan are doing a campaign using it..and what a beautiful map, Thankyou Raunhofer :)

(most of the yellow tint was me wearing my tactical glasses) but yep I change the colour a bit to simulate early morning...maybe a bit too much..lol

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Just Love the Islands Thanks for the hard work ..

But The no Snow for the host is killing it for me :-(

is thier any way of a work around for us Lonely LAN guys

I'm usually hosting the missions and my co-op buds rave about how nice the snow storm looks ...while I alone bum out

I seen this asked a couple of times without a reply

Is this something I could change for personal use by un-packing the island with a few hints from you on what to change :-)

someone else asked............

May I suggest that you make the snow/weather logic more MP friendly in an upcomming release? I see no point to disable it for the server only. It kinda ruins the experience for anyone playing on the host computer in a LAN setup. Why not replace the isServer part of your snow script with isDedicated? That way you may still preserve CPU power on any dedicated servers, without affecting the game for LAN gamers.

is this possible for maybe just us alone ?? Any help would be greatly appreciated

I usually only play with a couple other people so it shouldn't be a host killer for us ...right ?

Thanks again for the beautiful island

~S~

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Hey Raunhofer, I see you're working on v1.1 of this beautiful island, really looking forward to that :)

I have 1 little suggestion that I think would be useful for the next update. If you could include more water area around the map (yes I know the water if infinite in game) but for editing purposes it would be great. Right now there's very little water border for the island before it goes the the black background in the editor. Compared to Utes, for example, where there is a lot of water around the island for placing ships and aircraft etc.

I've illustrated the issue in these pics:

cEWdS.jpg

cEYJ0.jpg

Here you can see the difference between the islands, and how placing units off the coast of Thirsk is quite problematic.

Hope it's not too much of a hassle to change.

Thanks!

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... If you could include more water area around the map (yes I know the water if infinite in game) but for editing purposes it would be great. ...

Yes, that's a good idea. I'll see if I can do such of modification without having any new problems.

Meanwhile with the 1.0 version, you can make the units near the shore, then zoom out and move the units to the black area.

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The water crossing behind the dam in the southeast corner of the map is unusable by AI. If this could please be fixed I would be very grateful.

Thankyou for this map, it's my favorite to date.

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First of all, Thirsk is a great island, thank you for it!

I have a question though, how do i actually make the snow blizzard effect that i have seen in some of the other users videos? If someone could give me detailed step-by-step instructions that would be great!

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I have a question though, how do i actually make the snow blizzard effect that i have seen in some of the other users videos? If someone could give me detailed step-by-step instructions that would be great!

You must use a game logic in the editor. I can't use it in mp :(

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You must use a game logic in the editor. I can't use it in mp :(

It doesn't work for the host iirc. You're better off using the Environment effects module in OA.

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Just checked the sneak peek of Thirsk 1.10 (yea I know, I'm not the fastest guy around) and looking forward to any improvements/additions to this lovely island!

It looks even better now with OA's improved lighting features and the fog alpha blend issues solved!

Awesome work Raunhofer & Co!

/KC

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Just Love the Islands Thanks for the hard work ..

But The no Snow for the host is killing it for me :-(

^This^

I don't have a clue how much the performance is affected by having the blizzard show on the host, but I would really love to have it working for me when I'm playing with my friends. Since we don't have a dedicated server.

At least make it an option?

Thank you for a wonderful island anyhow, I'll just go with bad weather and high fog until I find a way to get the snow working. And I don't have OA so can't get environment effects from there. Or maybe I should buy OA... and a dedicated server... :)

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Thank you for a wonderful island anyhow, I'll just go with bad weather and high fog until I find a way to get the snow working. And I don't have OA so can't get environment effects from there. Or maybe I should buy OA... and a dedicated server... :)

Of course you should get OA :p

Until then, you could use an alternate snow script like

//Snow blizzard script by JW
//Snow taken from NiM's weather module, modyfied and mixed with fog effect from delaying the bear.

setWind [0, -5, true];

_obj = player;

_pos = position (vehicle _obj);

_d  = 15;

_density = 10000;

_fog = "#particlesource" createVehicleLocal _pos; 
_fog setParticleParams [
  ["\Ca\Data\ParticleEffects\Universal\universal.p3d" , 16, 12, 13, 0], "", "Billboard", 1, 10, 
  [0, 0, -6], [0, 0, 0], 1, 1.275, 1, 0, 
  [7,6], [[1, 1, 1, 0], [1, 1, 1, 0.04], [1, 1, 1, 0]], [1000], 1, 0, "", "", _obj
];
_fog setParticleRandom [3, [55, 55, 0.2], [0, 0, -0.1], 2, 0.45, [0, 0, 0, 0.1], 0, 0];
_fog setParticleCircle [0.001, [0, 0, -0.12]];
_fog setDropInterval 0.001;


while {true} do 
{
_a = 0;
while { _a < _density } do
{
_pos = position player;
_fog setpos _pos;
0 setRain 0;
_dpos = [((_pos select 0) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 1) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 2) + 2)];
drop ["\ca\data\cl_water", "", "Billboard", 1, 7, _dpos, [0,0,-1], 1, 0.0000001, 0.000, 0.7, [0.07], [[1,1,1,0], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1]], [0,0], 0.2, 1.2, "", "", ""];	_a = _a + 1;
_dpos = [((_pos select 0) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 1) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 2) + 4)];
drop ["\ca\data\cl_water", "", "Billboard", 1, 7, _dpos, [0,0,-1], 1, 0.0000001, 0.000, 0.7, [0.07], [[1,1,1,0], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1]], [0,0], 0.2, 1.2, "", "", ""];	_a = _a + 1;
_dpos = [((_pos select 0) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 1) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 2) + 6)];
drop ["\ca\data\cl_water", "", "Billboard", 1, 7, _dpos, [0,0,-1], 1, 0.0000001, 0.000, 0.7, [0.07], [[1,1,1,0], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1]], [0,0], 0.2, 1.2, "", "", ""];	_a = _a + 1;
_dpos = [((_pos select 0) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 1) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 2) + 8)];
drop ["\ca\data\cl_water", "", "Billboard", 1, 7, _dpos, [0,0,-1], 1, 0.0000001, 0.000, 0.7, [0.07], [[1,1,1,0], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1]], [0,0], 0.2, 1.2, "", "", ""];	_a = _a + 1;
_dpos = [((_pos select 0) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 1) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 2) + 10)];
drop ["\ca\data\cl_water", "", "Billboard", 1, 7, _dpos, [0,0,-1], 1, 0.0000001, 0.000, 0.7, [0.07], [[1,1,1,0], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1]], [0,0], 0.2, 1.2, "", "", ""];	_a = _a + 1;
_dpos = [((_pos select 0) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 1) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 2) + 12)];
drop ["\ca\data\cl_water", "", "Billboard", 1, 7, _dpos, [0,0,-1], 1, 0.0000001, 0.000, 0.7, [0.07], [[1,1,1,0], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1]], [0,0], 0.2, 1.2, "", "", ""];	_a = _a + 1;


};

sleep 0.2;
};

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Of course you should get OA :p

Until then, you could use an alternate snow script like

//Snow blizzard script by JW
//Snow taken from NiM's weather module, modyfied and mixed with fog effect from delaying the bear.

setWind [0, -5, true];

_obj = player;

_pos = position (vehicle _obj);

_d  = 15;

_density = 10000;

_fog = "#particlesource" createVehicleLocal _pos; 
_fog setParticleParams [
  ["\Ca\Data\ParticleEffects\Universal\universal.p3d" , 16, 12, 13, 0], "", "Billboard", 1, 10, 
  [0, 0, -6], [0, 0, 0], 1, 1.275, 1, 0, 
  [7,6], [[1, 1, 1, 0], [1, 1, 1, 0.04], [1, 1, 1, 0]], [1000], 1, 0, "", "", _obj
];
_fog setParticleRandom [3, [55, 55, 0.2], [0, 0, -0.1], 2, 0.45, [0, 0, 0, 0.1], 0, 0];
_fog setParticleCircle [0.001, [0, 0, -0.12]];
_fog setDropInterval 0.001;


while {true} do 
{
_a = 0;
while { _a < _density } do
{
_pos = position player;
_fog setpos _pos;
0 setRain 0;
_dpos = [((_pos select 0) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 1) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 2) + 2)];
drop ["\ca\data\cl_water", "", "Billboard", 1, 7, _dpos, [0,0,-1], 1, 0.0000001, 0.000, 0.7, [0.07], [[1,1,1,0], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1]], [0,0], 0.2, 1.2, "", "", ""];	_a = _a + 1;
_dpos = [((_pos select 0) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 1) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 2) + 4)];
drop ["\ca\data\cl_water", "", "Billboard", 1, 7, _dpos, [0,0,-1], 1, 0.0000001, 0.000, 0.7, [0.07], [[1,1,1,0], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1]], [0,0], 0.2, 1.2, "", "", ""];	_a = _a + 1;
_dpos = [((_pos select 0) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 1) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 2) + 6)];
drop ["\ca\data\cl_water", "", "Billboard", 1, 7, _dpos, [0,0,-1], 1, 0.0000001, 0.000, 0.7, [0.07], [[1,1,1,0], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1]], [0,0], 0.2, 1.2, "", "", ""];	_a = _a + 1;
_dpos = [((_pos select 0) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 1) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 2) + 8)];
drop ["\ca\data\cl_water", "", "Billboard", 1, 7, _dpos, [0,0,-1], 1, 0.0000001, 0.000, 0.7, [0.07], [[1,1,1,0], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1]], [0,0], 0.2, 1.2, "", "", ""];	_a = _a + 1;
_dpos = [((_pos select 0) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 1) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 2) + 10)];
drop ["\ca\data\cl_water", "", "Billboard", 1, 7, _dpos, [0,0,-1], 1, 0.0000001, 0.000, 0.7, [0.07], [[1,1,1,0], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1]], [0,0], 0.2, 1.2, "", "", ""];	_a = _a + 1;
_dpos = [((_pos select 0) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 1) + (_d - (random (2*_d))) + ((velocity vehicle player select 0)*1)),((_pos select 2) + 12)];
drop ["\ca\data\cl_water", "", "Billboard", 1, 7, _dpos, [0,0,-1], 1, 0.0000001, 0.000, 0.7, [0.07], [[1,1,1,0], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1], [1,1,1,1]], [0,0], 0.2, 1.2, "", "", ""];	_a = _a + 1;


};

sleep 0.2;
};

Ah thank you! But how do I get that snowstorm working? Just execute the script at mission start or something else?

On the other hand, I took a peek inside the thirsk pbos and found a script that looks like it controls "no server snow", I don't understand where to edit it though...

THIRSK_snowstormServer.sqs

; Original code by Sentinel and edited to ARMA2 by Raunhofer. I'd like to thank Sentinel for his effort towards NIM weather addon.

_logic = _this select 0

_server = false

?(local _logic):_server = true

_lifetime = 10^5

?(count _this > 3):_lifetime = _this select 3

?((missionstart select 0) == 0):_server = true; _lifetime exec "\RHNET\Thirsk5\scripts\THIRSK_snowstormClient.sqs"; _lifetime exec "\RHNET\Thirsk5\scripts\THIRSK_snowstormSnow.sqs"

?(!_server):_lifetime exec "\RHNET\Thirsk5\scripts\THIRSK_snowstormClient.sqs"; _lifetime exec "\RHNET\Thirsk5\scripts\THIRSK_snowstormSnow.sqs"; exit

_dens = _this select 1

THIRSK_snowstormFog = 0.953

THIRSK_snowstormDens = _dens

_windspd = 15 + (random 30)

_winddir = random 360

THIRSK_snowstormWindX = _windspd * (sin _winddir)

THIRSK_snowstormWindY = _windspd * (cos _winddir)

THIRSK_snowstormWindZ = 5 - (random 10)

THIRSK_snowstormChTime = 0

?(count _this > 2):_ichTime = (_this select 1) * 60; THIRSK_snowstormChTime = _ichTime + (0.25 * _ichTime - (random (0.5* _ichTime))); _dMin = (_this select 2) select 0; _dMax = (_this select 2) select 1; THIRSK_snowstormDens = _dMin + (random (_dMax - _dMin))

publicvariable "THIRSK_snowstormFog"

publicvariable "THIRSK_snowstormDens"

publicvariable "THIRSK_snowstormChTime"

publicvariable "THIRSK_snowstormWindX"

publicvariable "THIRSK_snowstormWindY"

publicvariable "THIRSK_snowstormWindZ"

#top

?((THIRSK_snowstormChTime > 0) && (THIRSK_snowstormChTime < _time)):goto "random"

goto "wait"

#random

THIRSK_snowstormChTime = _ichTime + (0.25 * _ichTime - (random (0.5* _ichTime))) + _time

_dens = _dMin + (random (_dMax - _dMin + 1))

THIRSK_snowstormDens = _dens - (_dens % 1)

THIRSK_snowstormFog = 0.953 - (random 0.2)

publicvariable "THIRSK_snowstormFog"

publicvariable "THIRSK_snowstormDens"

publicvariable "THIRSK_snowstormChTime"

#wait

~5

?(_time > _lifetime):exit

goto "top"

Maybe there's a simple change in here somewhere that allows me to have snow?

But that standalone snow script is probably way easier to use :) I'll try it right away.

And about OA, for some reason I think I would prefer to buy Combined Operations, it seems things are "more compatible" with that version. But I'm not too keen on buying the same game twice, I do like Bohemias work, but still... I need to eat as well ;)

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If you have A2 and buy OA they form Combined Ops, no need to buy the bundle if you already have half of it.

For the script, name it "snow.sqf" or something and put

execVM "snow.sqf";

in the init.sqf

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If you have A2 and buy OA they form Combined Ops, no need to buy the bundle if you already have half of it.

For the script, name it "snow.sqf" or something and put

execVM "snow.sqf";

in the init.sqf

Doh! I hadn't realised that. OA being standalone messes with my brain...

Yep, tried it and it looks nice. It's not a blizzard, but when thinking about it my friends would hate me for forcing the sound of a blizzard on them so this is probably better :)

It works great with some fog.

Thank you!

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Fantastic work and a great island. I'm not sure how I missed this one but I'm glad I found it.

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Hi Raunhofer,

I really like your Thirsk winter island (seen this really recently and I'm hooked on it), and I was wondering how far you are with the 1.10 update. I hope you still work on this project as the snowy environment is one of a kind.

Anyways, thank you for sharing your work and I look forward to more :)

GvsE

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