Why is this game not more popular?

[galzohar 31]

Because it takes so much time to make it work, that people who have little time to play basically spend all their playtime on making the game work and have no time left to actually play it.

[Defunkt 431]

The point is I shouldn't HAVE to find a clan to join some walled off private server and install a bunch of different parts of the game and a seperate voice just to play... ...That is a failure of the game, not of the players.

Walling off the server, creating and installing a bunch of modifications (and for that matter using separate voice, which virtually all communities do for all games) isn't something BIS built into the game, it's a choice made by those people playing, so who or what are you actually whinging about? Seems to me you want a game like every other simplistic shooter out there, one which nobody would ever bother walling off because there's no customisation worth a damn and the gameplay is limited, generic and repetitive. There are plenty of games that offer that already, go play one of those if you're time's so valuable, you're missing the key benefits of this one.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Because it takes so much time to make it work, that people who have little time to play basically spend all their playtime on making the game work and have no time left to actually play it.

Do you really believe this ?

[Zipper5 74]

Because it takes so much time to make it work, that people who have little time to play basically spend all their playtime on making the game work and have no time left to actually play it.

When I first got ArmA II, I installed it. It worked perfectly. When I downloaded my first mod for ArmA II, I followed the instructions for it in the readme, and it too worked perfectly. Both of those are less than 5 minute jobs, and require very little effort, even if it's your first time using the game. I now have an abundance of time left to actually play ArmA II as a result.

It isn't hard and it isn't time consuming. It also isn't hard to find a server with the specific addons you want to use (being reasonable with which addons you want to use, of course). People simply seem to lack the mentality required to play games like ArmA II. You can develop said mentality for yourself, as I did in the OFP-times, but if you can't be bothered to develop said mentality in the first place, then there's no point in you trying to play the game. You'll be disappointed, and you will remain disappointed. Therefore, ArmA II, or any of BIS' games, is/are not the game(s) for you.

Oh, and to put this into context, I am 17 years old, and I don't find this hard.

[andromedagalaxe 10]

I don't know why the game isn't more popular.

I also don't know why this meaningless thread is so popular.

[galzohar 31]

The process you need to go through to play on a new server that you never played on takes a lot more than 5 minutes, and much much longer if you're not very skilled with computers, google, etc. I pretty much gave up on playing on servers I don't know a long time ago, and only play on Zeus and with the Israeli community when they're playing, and any other time I just can't be bothered. Especially when after the entire process is done there is still no guarantee that the gameplay on that server will be any good. On another game you could just hop on another server in that case, while in Arma you'd have to start the entire process again. Do that for 2-3 servers until you find one you like, and if you are a person that has ~1 hour a day to play ends up not playing at all. And to top it all off, nobody guarantees the server will still have players once the process is done.

Basically unless you play on the same server with the same people, this game is too much work for too little play. Though I guess this will not be true for you if you like to play domination/evolution/warfare 99% of the time.

[Defunkt 431]

So what's your solution? Force everybody to play the variation you like? This game offers choices, lots of them, it seems to me you feel it would be better to limit everybody's choices so you don't have to invest any effort yourself.

[galzohar 31]

I'm expecting it to be less time consuming to get what is needed to play on a server.

[avibird 1 141]

So what's your solution? Force everybody to play the variation you like? This game offers choices, lots of them, it seems to me you feel it would be better to limit everybody's choices so you don't have to invest any effort yourself.

I can't believe some of the replies on this thread. People this thread is about why this game is not more popular. I know most of the people on this fourm love this game but stop and think what this thread is about. We all know this is the best game of it's kind and we all know the game takes time to learn how to play but the question is WHY THIS GAME IS NOT MORE POPULAR with more people. Just look at what people have stated and try to see a different view why most players who want a real tactical shooter will not play or give this game a go. To much work for a game. I have got into a lot of fights over this statement ARMA is not a real simulator it is just a really great game. With a real simulator you need to do the real motor skills required to do the job. Just a little FYI for some of you (I know I will get crap for this).

The main problem I see is some of you don't want anything to change. You like it the way it is. If this game got more popular it would not change one thing for most of you because you stay in your locked rooms playing with the same old group.

[Defunkt 431]

You're assuming I care about whether the game is more popular or not, I don't particularly beyond wishing BIS financial security, in fact if the pursuit of popularity led BIS to offer gamers less options (which is where every other developer/publisher has already headed) I would be very much against it. What I am responding to is the endless whines that it's too hard to join a server when what they're really bemoaning is that BIS provided communities and server-ops with too many options to tailor the game to their liking. If the way people run their servers is something these whiners expect BIS to fix then the inevitable and eventual solution will simply be removal of the degree of customisation available (like every other studio that has decided modding isn't worth the hassle).

And before anybody starts cracking on about other games offering auto-downloading of mods let me tell you I've run dedicated servers for ArmA, Source and COD and Arma is already ahead of the game in terms of what customisations can be delivered inside a mission. You cannot rock on up to an Insurgency server with your Source SDK game and auto-download that mod, you need to download and pre-install it separately just like you do with ACE. COD would auto-download mods (though no longer of course, see hassle above) but these are incredibly limited and simplistic in what they can achieve because they're just models and textures, all code is executed on the server. Similarly I've never known Source games to deliver actual code by http, it's all bound up in compiled binaries which again have to be pre-installed. Compare that to things like Mando Missile and R3F Artillery & Logistics which deliver huge changes to gameplay with locally executing code.

I get tired of the constant moaning by the uninformed about what BIS haven't done for lazy players when what they're actually complaining about is that BIS have made so much more possible than they're prepared to keep up with. Mod management in ArmA is very advanced, I can't think of another game that allows you to mix and match and stack customisations in a non-destructive manner like ArmA can. The more BIS give the more people seem to feel they're entitled to moan. Your option is to play vanilla, it's still a great game, if you can't be bothered setting up mods then play without and spare us your whines, if you can't find anybody else playing vanilla then I guess that's just because the vast majority of us enjoy using the customisations available.

[Bulldogs 10]

Many people can't handle choice. It's not an insult to anyone, it's just a natural psychological fact. That's why the world isn't filled with leaders, because many people aren't ready to be leaders. They rave about "free will" and "free roam" yet they unconciously wish to be forced down a corridor.

[galzohar 31]

Heck it doesn't even have to be automatic. Even something as simple as giving servers a way to have an information page that shows up when you click on the server in the server browser would be a massive improvement compared to what we have now. That's the bare minimum I would expect from BIS.

Optimally the browser will also check the mod list of the mission that is currently running on a server and tell you if you have all of them, and if you don't it will give you a copy-paste-able list of all the mods you're missing, which you can then search if the server didn't bother to link them in its info page that is viewable through the server browser.

Another thing that would be useful is to be able to see some kind of mission description in the server browser. Currently all info you can give besides the very short mission name is the game type which doesn't say too much. With all the missions out there there needs to be a way for the mission maker to tell players what the current mission is about before the player joins the server.

Those are all things that would be very very simple to implement and go a very very long way towards making this game easier to use for everyone who play on more than 1-2 servers. Automatic addon downloading of course would be amazing (just asking you to click a "I understand I am downloading user made content etc etc" before the download), but there are a lot of much simpler improvements that would greatly improve the playability of this game.

Most addons in Arma 2 are not compareable to something like Insurgency, and are more comparable to a different character skins in other games. Most mods are not like ACE where a significant % of the server uses them, but are rather stuff used in very very few missions. I can't be bothered to download a long list of mods for every mission I play and I will only download it if it's actually good enough to be used by multiple missions (though if I actually knew a mission is really good before downloading it I would've bothered with it, but most of the time this is not the case).

[tacticalnuggets 24]

When I first got ArmA II, I installed it. It worked perfectly. When I downloaded my first mod for ArmA II, I followed the instructions for it in the readme, and it too worked perfectly. Both of those are less than 5 minute jobs, and require very little effort, even if it's your first time using the game. I now have an abundance of time left to actually play ArmA II as a result.

It isn't hard and it isn't time consuming. It also isn't hard to find a server with the specific addons you want to use (being reasonable with which addons you want to use, of course). People simply seem to lack the mentality required to play games like ArmA II. You can develop said mentality for yourself, as I did in the OFP-times, but if you can't be bothered to develop said mentality in the first place, then there's no point in you trying to play the game. You'll be disappointed, and you will remain disappointed. Therefore, ArmA II, or any of BIS' games, is/are not the game(s) for you.

Oh, and to put this into context, I am 17 years old, and I don't find this hard.

I'm 19 and I dont find this hard either. But some people do. Infact, most people do. That is a sad fact, but no amount of bashing, flaming, and or sometimes even teaching will help these people get faster or understand it. Which is why people have been talking about these things.

TO ALL:

I'm glad a lot more people have joined in to discuss this problem. Every person who does it counts and further makes BIS more aware. But its still sad to see people desperately trying to shut these ideas down because they rely on the fact that there is a problem with the game. Sorry to say but some people really are just fanboys. Take for example my other thread. You have people trying to shut down the idea for NO good reason. Other than BIS might have to work a little harder to produce something that will fix this problem. Yes, it isn't a gameplay or bug fix, but an accessibility fix, which isn't what BIS is used too. If you cannot come up with a reason for an idea making the game worse, then just dont post. Otherwise your making yourself look, sound, and mindlessly ramble like a fanboy. Some of us spend money and want something more in return because we are not satisfied. In my dis-satisfaction, I want more players to play with in multiplayer, and the only way is to make the game more accessible without destroying the realism.

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

Some think it's tuff now to match up with servers with mods and addons?

Hell, I would have loved to hear you before this release many years back.

OFP WATCH

Time changes things, but I would rather enjoy what I do have, instead of waiting for a wish to come true.

[LJF 0]

Add a list of mods run by the server that you can bring up, fixed.

Maybe there could be some kind of linkage system as well, so you can click a button and it opens the armaholic.com pages of all the mods if the server has added the links, just a thought.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

Add a list of mods run by the server that you can bring up, fixed.

Maybe there could be some kind of linkage system as well, so you can click a button and it opens the armaholic.com pages of all the mods if the server has added the links, just a thought.

This would be a good idea. It would probably be much easier if BIS could even use spiders to find websites, and then include them in the links list. That would save a lot of resources, and still provide better access. The only downside is that you wouldn't have automatic installation ingame, and you would have to manually install all the addons and mod folders. Which discourages people who are not good at that stuff.

[Zipper5 74]

I'm not against having something like an auto-downloader for mods, I'd welcome the idea. What I am doing here is attacking the idea that installing mods and such currently is "hard". It isn't hard at all, it just takes a little while longer than most seem to want to spend for whatever reason. It's not the game's fault or BIS' fault, it's yours. If you find it hard, you're either 1) lazy or 2) technologically inept and should turn your PC off right now.

[Alex72 1]

You tell em Zipper! :D

Seriously though i think Radical Ghost's idea was smart. Not auto-download of mods, but smart. Read his post here: http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1586814&postcount=20

We all know the ARMA online browser could be better as its pretty bad informative wise atm. We cant see the full server names sometimes, there is no info for used mods apart from the map/server name itself, you cant see all players etc etc. So Ghost's idea is nice with info that can be written by the server admins that tells all the info you need to know plus all the links written down to the mods used. No more need to search the sites for the mods and extra info that server admins want you to know before entering the server. A button to get this info window up would be great.

[Slyder73 10]

Now there have been some good suggestions, in a problem solving context the last while.

Odd how a discussion about why the game isn't more popular is so populated by people willing to crucify anyone giving their reasons it isn't popular.

This type of discourse with both opinions is helpful. What is not helpful are all the comments I and several have gotten about being lazy, inept or useless because I for one (and guaranteed many others think the multiple hoops to jump through just to play a game are quite unnecessary and should have been done with years ago). Not to mention...why would I want to jump through those hoops to play with the elitists who seem to pull out the daggers anytime anyone suggests their precious game could be improved?

Bottom line: BIS needs to attract players to keep the game growing with an influx of new players and to make it easier in each generation of a game for medium skilled or lesser experienced players to access the content. Instead, how the game is designed right now is only fostering a continuing fragmentation into smaller and smaller bits, completely discouraging the "new blood".

I know there are probably a whole slew of "fanboys" out there uninterested in this discussion and waiting for me to reply so as to flame me again, don't care. For those offering suggestions that might be a better way to get the community growing, keep suggesting them, who knows...perhaps some server admins will take note or BIS themselves will take note.

Love this game, started playing when it came out with high hopes but sadly I've had to go back to things like Red Orchestra/Darkest Hour (4 years old and only a few servers running) because it offers a more mature, team oriented, always welcomming of newcomers, open community of player vs. player than this game. I fear many think the same, which is why Arma2 isn't going far. Just count the number of players online at any given time. It's gone down significantly since the Summer, and each month seems to be fewer players overall.

[dmarkwick 261]

Odd how a discussion about why the game isn't more popular is so populated by people willing to crucify anyone giving their reasons it isn't popular.

LOL :D yeah, it's been pointed out several times to several people that listing your own reasons for not liking the game is, in fact, on topic and not off topic or trolling. This thread is all about opinions, bug listing and feature questioning. I think generally it's a good topic, if only people could converse with an open countenance instead of a closed one.

The case of the mod system that ArmA2 uses is an interesting one, some maintaining that the system is flawed and unnecessarily complex/technical (from a pure gamer's point of view) and others claiming it's OK and no more complex than setting up your PC for optimum performance in the first place.

Actually, I think that's one area worth expanding on: ArmA2 is a game, first and foremost. So it should be playable right out of the box, on release, no fiddling or downloading required, no question. However beyond that, for the people who decide they rather like the game's premise, the fact that the mod system does have a minimum amount of PC setting up (arranging mod folders, affecting your shortcut command line parameters etc) seems to arrange that tech-savvy players play it.

Kind of like a self-fulfilling prophesy, if the game requires an amount of non-game PC setup, then only people who are able to follow such a technical procedure can play it to it's fullest abilities. And those people naturally like technical gameplay, and that means RL tactics and RL consequences.

I'm not saying ArmA2 setup is overly technical, just that it requires a minimal technical ability, which is the very first step in weeding out the casual player. When you get a system that auto-does everything for you, like Unreal Tournament or something, you'll see the ArmA2 community diverge even further as the "serious" players find new ways to weed out the casual passengers. This already happens of course, in the form of private servers, but you can expect that activity to generally increase with more user-friendliness built in.

[cm. 10]

Well now that Project reality is coming to Arma 2 we should see a nice boost to the community :)

[Gen_Protection 10]

When a thread header asks for opinions all opinions should be open for debate. Differences of opinion and the sheer volume of input into this thread (70 pages already) shows there IS a significant amount of interest in making Arma more popular.. That for me is healthy. Some want change, some see no need, thats RL. Flaming is pointless, is like verbal terrorism, and has no place in "Grown ups" discussion.

OK here is my tech question. Some may already be covered but spread out over a zillion threads so I try to get a focused tech opinion.

I have little tech knowledge of net/web/server etc, but just wanted to ask some of you "brainy" guys a tech question.

On the assumption that rightly or wrongly many Users/ wouldbe users find addons etc either not easy/can't be arsed or whatever. Not here to debate if users lazy, inept/ want spoonfed/ dumbed down/ etc.

Technically/ and from a security aspect, is it possible for a click on a web page to initiate Arma with the correct addons added to the startup command line... and join the server... is this secure?

As a tech challenged longterm OFP vet I can't help wondering if this whole debate couldn't be resolved, and progress made if there was some mechanism that allowed a MP server search option to channel the user to a pregame web page that included some sort of direct link to a yoma style installer/updater for the specific addons needed by the server. Once updated the webpage could contain a link to the mp game and start up arma with the correct addons activated? This is pretty much what Yoma can do, BUT if you add to this web page hotlinks for whatever voice links and configs are required for voice keybinds, also links to dload said voice apps.

As an aside I struggle to find many servers that actually have addon configs for use with Yoma, ( I may be doing this incorrectly though) Understandable as bandwidth costs money, but limiting none the less. I toy with the idea that maybe some Yoma type app pre start of arma could "hotlink" to correct files at somewhere like "armaholic"? Of course then there maybe an issue of users not actually browsing the actual Armaholic site and so losing the site its pay per clicks or whatever (not sure how armaholic operates revenuewise, no disrespect intended)

Summary Can a webpage containing hotlinks to addons/voice apps/ arma startup be made that ties everything for a specific MP server together on one page, instigates voice in advance of the game, dloads/updates addons to correct user folder/ starts arma with correct addons loaded, closes the web page while voice app continues to function? Can scripts within the page automate most of this based on user choices/clicks?

A neatening up of everything if you like.

After that each server just needs a templated webpage. I have to assume as a non tech person this WOULD add a seperate need for the web page to NOT be Hosted on the MP server to keep bandwidth available for gaming. I also assume that no webpage contains the actual files but rather small scripts to automate the retrieval/installation of addons etc. I also assume that if a reasonable idea ultimately some Central Web Page would contain a list of all registered game servers who are implimenting this system, a recognised index if you like.

Do-able, secure? Impractical? Useful?

Feel free to give some tech input or alternatives, this is just a thinking out loud from a non tech user perspective.

(can't help wondering if Xfire could'nt solve most of this) I think of all of this as not spoonfeeding lazy people, but more of a streamlining of the steps required for playing MP with voice and the sorting of addons in a streamled way.

As a final aside I would remind some who may not be aware that way back OPF was not intially designed to have MP element, it was "tacked on" almost. A small part that has grown and become very significant to longterm viablity of series. (not an opinion, search early OFP threads for more info) I sometimes wonder if the base MP code from way back, is a limiting factor in what can be done now.

Gen

Edited March 12, 2010 by Gen_Protection

[wamingo 1]

If the definition of a casual player is a UT/BF2 junkie with no attention span, then fine, weed em out. But, in my opinion, the hard-core 17 year old arrogant techies are at least as annoying...

I think the usual definition of casual as being non-fanatical and non-techie typically produces the most enjoyable player. They do tend to need guidance, but are usually quite open minded and willing to try out new things, ie mods, teamplay, etc.

But if you don't set the entry bar fairly low, it will, of course, make these people run away. Which is a shame even if it means having more of the first group as well.

Join In Progress, for instance, appealed to both, and the extremists never complained about that.

[koroush47 10]

"- Lack of dedicated servers for online PvP games?"

Is why I'm pissed.

[galzohar 31]

"- Lack of dedicated servers for online PvP games?"

Is why I'm pissed.

It's not so much the lack of servers as it is lack of players to play on them and mission makers to make mission for them and then again players to test said missions and give feedback about them so that they can be improved.