The AI DOES NOT Fire Maingun In Main Battle Tanks

[Duke49th 1]

HI.

Now I report a BUG since OFP:

When a human player is in a tank as driver (like Abrams or T-72 or some other Main Battle Tank) the AI won't fire the maingun without any human command.

You have to press left mouse button (or what else you have the "fire" button designated to) to let the ai fire.

THIS IS F*** UP!!!:mad:

Because, when you are the driver, you CANNOT know what the gunner are aiming at and you also do not know if the gunner have LOS (Line Of Sight) to the/a target!

I know they fire the MG against infantrie and also smoke(sometimes:)), but not the Maingun!

The commander have to priorize what target should be aimed and the commander should have to give the fire command. Even the commander is AI. And not the (human) driver!

And please do not tell me that this is a feature....it is not! It is crap!

SO BIS, WHY IS THIS DAMN BUG NOT FIXED SINCE OFP?

PLEASE FIX IT!!!!

Or tell me the confg entry whatever so I can fix it myself an make another community fix addon for a good known and never fixed bug:rolleyes:

And sorry my english...I hope it is clear what I mean. Otherwise I can write in german...;)

@Moderator: I didn't see that there is a thread for content bugs in the (hardware/driver) Troubleshooting Forum. ;)

Edited January 15, 2010 by Duke49th

[myshaak 0]

Let me reply in a similar manner to yours:

The AI DOES FIRE the main gun!!! It's not a BUG!!! If you are a DRIVER and the commander is your SUPERIOR, he will issue commands to target and fire!!

If you are the driver and a SUPERIOR to all crewmen in the tank, it's up to YOU to issue orders, I don't see what is wrong with that.

[oxmox 73]

Well honestly, why are the MG position firing without to issue any orders. I do understand the thread starter since this is really strange. You can also target vehicles, houses, animals, ladders or anything but not any infantry....so the game isnt really consistent here. On the other hand its a mix between auto reveal targeting, auto firing and manuel commands...i still have to laugh when i think that i did play the first weeks in multiplayer without auto targeting and searching with tank binocs for enemy movement since i thought it is a sim ^^. The best part is that you can auto target vehicle targets 1-2k away but not the atg infantry man who kills you with one shot only 100m away (no infrared camera?) , infantry units are the most dangerous units vs tanks after i did find out that you can shoot down moving helis with the 125mm tank main gun :o. Its still a fun game but could need some improvement.

Edited January 15, 2010 by oxmox

[max power 21]

Well honestly, why are the MG position firing without to issue any orders. I do understand the thread starter since this is really strange. You can also target vehicles, houses, animals, ladders or anything but not any infantry....so the game isnt really consistent here. On the other hand its a mix between auto reveal targeting, auto firing and manuel commands...i still have to laugh when i think that i did play the first weeks in multiplayer without auto targeting and searching with tank binocs for enemy movement since i thought it is a sim ^^. The best part is that you can auto target vehicle targets 1-2k away but not the atg infantry man who kills you with one shot only 100m away (no infrared camera?) , infantry units are the most dangerous units vs tanks after i did find out that you can shoot down moving helis with the 125mm tank main gun :o. Its still a fun game but could need some improvement.

He won't if you tell him to cease fire. He's by default on 'open fire', but needs explicit commands to 'fire' the main gun.

[oxmox 73]

Yes sure, but this doesnt explain the issue that one type of weapon is shooting automatically, even automatically targeting, and the other one not when you command to engage at will. On the other hand this type of commanding makes the game a bit more interesing, if everything would target and fire automatically we could just watch TV, i would not mind if there would be no auto targeting and auto fire at all in multiplayer...of course if infantry would get spottet better or atg weps would be more limited. Ah well there are more serious problems than that, as a tanker the detecting of atg infantry units and human players in certain dangerous situation is about life or death.

Edited January 15, 2010 by oxmox

[max power 21]

Well, there are several reasons, but firing a machinegun doesn't take it out of the commander's disposal for a second. The commander has the radar, and has all of the battlefield information. Allowing the gunner to fire willy nilly causes the weapon to be out of action while it reloads.

It's realistic...

But if you're going to be doing something unrealistic like commanding the tank from the driver's seat, why not go full BF2 and take an outside view with freelook to get some situational awareness?

[oxmox 73]

Iam not sure if most tanks have radar, but there is not any infrared camera simulated to detect infantry units. We have tanks from the 70ies in this game which did manual targeting without radar if iam not wrong here.

Its not only about realism since this game here is not really a vehicle simulation, its about game features. . Like i said i did play with manual targeting and situational awareness since i thought it is a sim until i noticed the auto features, iam used to multiplayer tank sims where no 3rd person view exist but from a different time period i.e. ww2 without any auto fire or targeting. But honestly the whole point is not that important, the detection of infantry is rather a problem for the tanker ingame or for any vehicle. I was driving a MG jeep only some min. ago and my gunner didnt attack infantry only 50m away wheras you cant target the unit at all when you play with your AI crew...thats an issue currently for me which should be patched. The current solution to this is to walk ahead with some infantry units and command targets to your tanks, thats quiete rewarding in some situations but doesnt solve the issue of course.

In general iam satisfied with the game and it provides really nice gameplay =)

Edited January 16, 2010 by oxmox

[-=seany=- 5]

I still think that they messed up the targeting system from OFP, commanding tanks in that was a joy. Was it easier? yes, but you could always turn off third person view etc. In arma 1 and 2 tank commanding is completely unintuitive and awkward feeling, the AI are always doing things you don't want them to. I much preferred the perfect OFP method.

[Duke49th 1]

Let me reply in a similar manner to yours:

The AI DOES FIRE the main gun!!! It's not a BUG!!! If you are a DRIVER and the commander is your SUPERIOR, he will issue commands to target and fire!!

If you are the driver and a SUPERIOR to all crewmen in the tank, it's up to YOU to issue orders, I don't see what is wrong with that.

Leader of the group = Leader of the group :)

Commander of the Tank = Commander of the Tank :)

But

Leader of the group != Commander of the Tank :nono:

[NoRailgunner 0]

Duke49th the AI switches very fast to machinegun but slowly back to the maingun. They do use the maingun but BIS didnt implement somekind of "threat-list" yet. Would be better if the AI would use the weapon systems /ammo in a proper way. Btw I didnt see that default A2 vehicles and AI are using smoke grenades. I highly doubt that A2 AI "knows" the advantages and disadvantages of smoke/smoke screens. ;)

Try to test AI tank combat - with yourself as human AI buddy:

- place some enemy vehicles with waypoints (on safe)

- place own units (crew) with waypoints to get in and move

- empty tank (get in)

- switch into one of the crew units and see what happens if:

A crew have all the same rank

B crew have different ranks (Sergeant - Corporal - Private)

Imho AI development need some more attention and time to test & fix. Cross fingers that devs not only testing and playing as AI team/groupleaders...

[Duke49th 1]

@NoRailgunner:

Why should I test your test pattern? Makes no sense to me.:confused:

What I do:

I place an enemy tank.

I place an friendly tank with me as driver, but leader of the group.

Result: AI is not firing maingun.

When I entering a warfare(same behaviour goes for any else Mission as Groupleader):

I buy a tank (M1A1 or T-72 or what ever MBT) with crew. I enter the tank as driver.

Result: AI does not fire maingun.

SURE, they do when I order them (Fire-button). But they MUST do it autonom;)

Edited January 18, 2010 by Duke49th
I mean driver not gunner

[Leopardi 0]

If you are the gunner, of course AI doesn't fire the main gun.

[instagoat 133]

I think the AI needs to be much more autonomous with the main gun, or at least get a setting with which it will automatically engage.

Especially for platoon and company level leaders this would be true: I know in the german army (where my father got up to Company commander in an armoured battalion in the north) that the Company Commander in the leader Tank doesn´t give any directions at all to his crew, who act completely autonomously to give him leeway in commanding the other units and keeping oversight, without needing to fuss with telling his driver which ditch is the right one to hide in and which target the gunner is supposed to engage.

In that respect I´d love to have more autonomous behaviour in Tanks: maybe this could be tied to the rank setting of the vehicle itself, instead of the crewmembers, or its position in the high command structure.

Right now, tanks are a bit of a fuss, with lots of button mashing and hit-and-miss commands involved.

[oxmox 73]

On the other hand, what kind of gameplay in a so called or advertised "simulation" do you want ? Isnt it already too gamey with auto targeting, tabbing, infantry cover reveals ! with spacebar and so on in multiplayer pvp, i think this all has no place in a sim at all..dont you think ? When the AI gunner shoots his main gun automatically aswell what is left for the player, the game already is not a simulation with all that easy mode staff. Well, this counts especially with 3rd person mode...the tanking game without 3rd person view is already not that enjoyable due to massive auto targeting threads and aiming issues, otherwise it should be the normal mode to play in a sim game.

Edited January 17, 2010 by oxmox

[Duke49th 1]

If you are the gunner, of course AI doesn't fire the main gun.

Oh dude...you know that I mean driver:rolleyes:

[zdavid99 10]

i've had some problems with this to.

Playing DoW at the moment and i was driving around in Chernogosk with a t-72

manned by Razor team.

When i encountered a Chedaki UAZ i ordered the gunner

(via the menu commands, selected gunner by pressing F*, pressed 2->2 (target),

then re-selected gunner and and pressed 3->Fire) to engage the UAZ.

However the gunner did not fire the main weapon despite that

he was given a direct order to fire and despite that he had a clear los to

the target which was about 100m in front of the tank.

I tried the same in the editor, where i was the highest rank.

I tried it both as commanding driver and commander and this time the

gunner did as he was told.

[NoRailgunner 0]

SURE, they do when I order them (Fire-button). But they MUST do it autonom

What happens after you as commander/leader ordered them to fire - do they target+fire autonom? I wouldnt like to see auto-firing AI - in many situations you wont wake-up sleeping dogs. It would only make sense if the AI is under attack. ;)

[Door a jar 0]

I actually don't have much of an issue with the way the tank commands are set up.

If your in command of the tank:

Ctrl F - will order your gunner to toggle between the coaxle or the main gun. If set to the coaxle the gunner will engage any soft tagets he spots, but ignore hard targets. You've got a machine gun in the commanders cuppola to help him out engaging infantry if its a problem for you. As far as infantry being the nuber one killer of your armour in certain situations it should be and is realistic to be so. Granted sometime your gunner seems blind, so be ready to back him up with your commander's gun.

If you have toggled over to your main gun, the gunner will not fire on his own. You have to designate the target you want him to engage (right mouse click over the target) your gunner will swing the gun to the correct bearing, then you simply have to issue the fire command (Ctrl left mouse) and the gunner will fire. A good blend of realism and playability of you ask me.

I'll admit the AI needs a touch more work, and I hate how the T-72 commander's view is attatched to the turret so if you're looking at a target when the gun swings to engage all of sudden your looking at an innocent tree.

Sorry if your frustrated, but try giving it another chance with some quick editor battles and practce. Pretty soon you won't need to switch to the driver position at all except to fine tune a defensive position.

-Cheers

[Duke49th 1]

What happens after you as commander/leader ordered them to fire - do they target+fire autonom? I wouldnt like to see auto-firing AI - in many situations you wont wake-up sleeping dogs. It would only make sense if the AI is under attack. ;)

I actually don't have much of an issue with the way the tank commands are set up.

If your in command of the tank:

Ctrl F - will order your gunner to toggle between the coaxle or the main gun. If set to the coaxle the gunner will engage any soft tagets he spots, but ignore hard targets. You've got a machine gun in the commanders cuppola to help him out engaging infantry if its a problem for you. As far as infantry being the nuber one killer of your armour in certain situations it should be and is realistic to be so. Granted sometime your gunner seems blind, so be ready to back him up with your commander's gun.

If you have toggled over to your main gun, the gunner will not fire on his own. You have to designate the target you want him to engage (right mouse click over the target) your gunner will swing the gun to the correct bearing, then you simply have to issue the fire command (Ctrl left mouse) and the gunner will fire. A good blend of realism and playability of you ask me.

I'll admit the AI needs a touch more work, and I hate how the T-72 commander's view is attatched to the turret so if you're looking at a target when the gun swings to engage all of sudden your looking at an innocent tree.

Sorry if your frustrated, but try giving it another chance with some quick editor battles and practce. Pretty soon you won't need to switch to the driver position at all except to fine tune a defensive position.

-Cheers

Didn't you guys get it?

I talk about being in a tank as a driver, not a commander.:rolleyes:

When I'm in a tank as the commander, everything is fine;)

And you do not need strg+f or strg+leftmouse button.

Simply pressing F or LMB is enough;)

[NoRailgunner 0]

With vanilla Arma2 it works for me placed as driver outside and inside T-90.

AI commander assigned target - changed to Sabot/Refleks and AI gunner fired from the maingun (destroyed M1A1).

Its only annyoing if there are infantry around and more vehicles - AI commander/gunner are often confused using machineguns on vehicles and maingun on infantry. :rolleyes:

Arma2 is a bitch - you have to be very devoted to it and you should wear special glasses or you simply have something good to drink. I prefer later but running out of drinks everytime I play...

[Lucan946 10]

Uh, yes they do. I've witnessed it plenty of times myself.