[Patch 1.05 Bug] AI won't follow player

[fabrizio_t 58]

Don't know if it's just me ... plz anybody give it a try.

Bug: AI units refuse to follow player (leader) while in combat mode.

Repro:

http://www.2shared.com/file/10261551/ebdfb71d/AI_follow_bugutes.html

How to reproduce:

• Load mission
  
• hit F2 / 7 / 2 to make your buddy enter COMBAT mode
  
• Move around and see buddy not following you
  
• hit F2 / 1 / 1 and see buddy ignoring fall into formation order
  

EDIT: Tried old beta 61974, 61450, 61062, same problem, but maybe we can't roll back completely to 1.04.

Can anybody check out the attached mission ? Thx.

Edited December 26, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[Bavator 8]

Just tried it, the guy followed me after a short (2 secs) pause. 1.05 +ACE2.

Going to try it with vanilla in a few minutes.

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Edit:

Ah, ok, I see what you mean, but I get the issue with 7/1 (stealth) not 7/2 (Danger).

And he´s not completely ignoring my orders, there´s "just" a short delay (prolly the bounding overwatch behaviour). If I put him in Danger mode before issuing the regroup command, I get the result I mentioned above. So no clear repro here, sorry Fabrizio. :(

Edited December 27, 2009 by malibu.stacey

[ericfr 0]

Same here Ai refuse to follow the leader in Combat Mode with a regroup command. Ai stays cover and don't move.(No mod Vanilla Arma2)

1.05 AI is broken.

Very strange Job with the community and Beta-patch :confused:

(Same with performance I lost 3 Fps average and always orange trees killer Fps)

Edited December 27, 2009 by EricFr

[jasonnoguchi 11]

I totally gave up on the vanilla AI. Now only play using Zeus or GL4. AI mod.

[maturin 12]

In the late stages of beta patching, danger mode started to stick around, usually when there were enemies in the distance.

They improved the situation but didn't believe us that the problem remained.

[rotkeps 10]

Seen this happen for sure, but not in a reproduce-able way. Have you noticed that it extends to move orders as well? Seemed to me like in combat mode every so often my squad would just switch off.

[fabrizio_t 58]

Just tried it, the guy followed me after a short (2 secs) pause. 1.05 +ACE2.

Going to try it with vanilla in a few minutes.

---------------------------------------------------

Edit:

Ah, ok, I see what you mean, but I get the issue with 7/1 (stealth) not 7/2 (Danger).

And he´s not completely ignoring my orders, there´s "just" a short delay (prolly the bounding overwatch behaviour). If I put him in Danger mode before issuing the regroup command, I get the result I mentioned above. So no clear repro here, sorry Fabrizio. :(

I get the problem with both DANGER and STEALTH, in my case he's completely ignoring my order to fall in formation, not a delay problem :(

You tried moving some hundred meters away? Did he follow you?

---------- Post added at 09:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 AM ----------

In the late stages of beta patching, danger mode started to stick around, usually when there were enemies in the distance.

They improved the situation but didn't believe us that the problem remained.

In the repro there are no enemies around.

Would you mind to check it out?

---------- Post added at 09:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 AM ----------

Same here Ai refuse to follow the leader in Combat Mode with a regroup command. Ai stays cover and don't move.(No mod Vanilla Arma2)

Thx.

[jw custom 56]

Yep AI in ArmA 2 vanilla is useless, with mods like ACE it becomes better but far from perfect!

I had hoped they would have looked into to the many AI issues rather than rushing the patch out before christmas :o

[NeMeSiS 11]

I seriously doubt that ACE or ZEUS AI would have any effect on this. ;)

If you want him to come back quickly, just put him into 'AWARE' for now.

[Bavator 8]

I get the problem with both DANGER and STEALTH, in my case he's completely ignoring my order to fall in formation, not a delay problem

You tried moving some hundred meters away? Did he follow you?

Ahhhhha, just tried it again, he does follow me for a couple of meters but then just stops in open field and ingnores the regroup command. Thats odd, never noticed this behaviour before. But I use AWARE + copy my stance (the mod, not the command) most of the time, though.

[jw custom 56]

I seriously doubt that ACE or ZEUS AI would have any effect on this. ;)

If you want him to come back quickly, just put him into 'AWARE' for now.

But with the new auto combat/danger feature they constantly go into danger mode whenever a enemy is spotted :eek:

And yes ACE does have an effect on this, try it with and without ;)

Edited December 27, 2009 by JW Custom

[NeMeSiS 11]

But with the new auto combat/danger feature they constantly go into danger mode whenever a enemy is spotted :eek:

No, thats been in since OFP1.0, check the mission editing forums for questions about how to detect that AI units are in combat. ;)

Dont tell me you never noticed the AI wasnt always in AWARE mode if you didnt give them specific orders?

And yes ACE does have an effect on this, try it with and without

Well, i havent tried ACE yet (Cant be arsed with the installer) but i doubt that they actually change the fsm's related to this, they probably go into combat mode faster because their sensed are changed so you see it happen more often/less.

Edited December 27, 2009 by NeMeSiS

[jw custom 56]

No, thats been in since OFP1.0, check the mission editing forums for questions about how to detect that AI units are in combat. ;)

Dont tell me you never noticed the AI wasnt always in AWARE mode if you didnt give them specific orders?

Well, i havent tried ACE yet (Cant be arsed with the installer) but i doubt that they actually change the fsm's related to this, they probably go into combat mode faster because their sensed are changed so you see it happen more often/less.

I'm talking about this feature implentet in a beta:

[60718] Changed: AI now goes to Combat behaviour automatically only when under fire, not when player is prone.

After that was implentet AI is was a pain to ordering around and now they won't do anything aslong as a enemy is known. So if you set them to aware and an enemy is known 300m+ away they return to combat behaviour.

Have you actually tried fabrizio_T example, now try it with enemies around.

[fabrizio_t 58]

Ahhhhha, just tried it again, he does follow me for a couple of meters but then just stops in open field and ingnores the regroup command. Thats odd, never noticed this behaviour before. But I use AWARE + copy my stance (the mod, not the command) most of the time, though.

Ok, so we had a problem here :(

[Graw2Pro 10]

Firstly, the AI makes its own decision based on its assessment of the battlefield. If necessary it ignores orders from the group leader.

Orders for it to enter into safe mode will be ignored if are there are still enemies around.

Secondly, the AI generally moves at a pretty slow pace. If you slow down to the same pace you ll notice that it plays pretty well.

When AI gives you problem the best thing is to sit back and order them to go forward (into the camp). Then follow behind, with this approach you ll see they re not so bad, just really cautious. More simulation rather than fps.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Graw2Pro

[jw custom 56]

Firstly, the AI makes its own decision based on its assessment of the battlefield. If necessary it ignores orders from the group leader.

Orders for it to enter into safe mode will be ignored if are there are still enemies around.

Secondly, the AI generally moves at a pretty slow pace. If you slow down to the same pace you ll notice that it plays pretty well.

When AI gives you problem the best thing is to sit back and order them to go forward (into the camp). Then follow behind, with this approach you ll see they re not so bad, just really cautious. More simulation rather than fps.

And this helps if your caught in the open and tried to run for cover or your outnumbered and needs to get away :confused:

[fabrizio_t 58]

Firstly, the AI makes its own decision based on its assessment of the battlefield. If necessary it ignores orders from the group leader.

Orders for it to enter into safe mode will be ignored if are there are still enemies around.

Secondly, the AI generally moves at a pretty slow pace. If you slow down to the same pace you ll notice that it plays pretty well.

When AI gives you problem the best thing is to sit back and order them to go forward (into the camp). Then follow behind, with this approach you ll see they re not so bad, just really cautious. More simulation rather than fps.

Just an observation: in my repro there are no enemies around.

[NeMeSiS 11]

I'm talking about this feature implentet in a beta:

[60718] Changed: AI now goes to Combat behaviour automatically only when under fire, not when player is prone.

After that was implentet AI is was a pain to ordering around and now they won't do anything aslong as a enemy is known. So if you set them to aware and an enemy is known 300m+ away they return to combat behaviour.

Have you actually tried fabrizio_T example, now try it with enemies around.

The only thing changed there was that they dont go into combat anymore when you go prone. This problem may have occured in that beta, but AI going into combat when being shot at has always been in the game.

[Graw2Pro 10]

Just an observation: in my repro there are no enemies around.

The reason they move slow in your repro is because they re in combat mode.

Switch them back to aware and they ll speed up again, if its safe.

---------- Post added at 04:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 AM ----------

And this helps if your caught in the open and tried to run for cover or your outnumbered and needs to get away :confused:

The AI is programmed to return fire automatically. Therefore try not to get ambushed in the open. Running without returning fire would get them cut down in real life....

Besides, if they re moving in combat mode only 3 or 4 at most should be exposed out of a team of 12. If they are moving in safe mode then you pay the price for that mistake.

Its true there could be an option to move quickly while under fire, but that would assume infinite courage etc and probably would not be very realistic.

Edited December 28, 2009 by Graw2Pro

[NeMeSiS 11]

Its true there could be an option to move quickly while under fire, but that would assume infinite courage etc and probably would not be very realistic.

In some cases its better, when you are crossing a field and 2 BMPs filled with enemies suddenly attack your squad you may want to run back quickly, but your squad wont do that. Ever.

Now i understand that it is pretty hard to predict when the AI should do this, but it should still be a command that the player can give to his squad IMO.

[fabrizio_t 58]

The reason they move slow in your repro is because they re in combat mode.

Switch them back to aware and they ll speed up again, if its safe.

Sorry, probably i was not that clear ...

By writing:

Bug: AI units refuse to follow player (leader) while in combat mode.

I didn't meant i had a problem with units slowly following in combat mode, i meant they just refused to follow.

That was confirmed by at least 2 other people who run the repro, i don't know about others.

So in my opinion that's clearly a problem, unless you think that in combat (or stealth) mode and without any enemies around your men are supposed to ignore fall back in formation orders.

Obviously switching to aware is not a solution, since no bounding overwatch nor bare leapfrogging are done in this mode.

Edited December 28, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[Alex72 1]

Same here. Very hard to get anyone to follow me. Even long after combat. There is a problem for sure.

[Graw2Pro 10]

Same here. Very hard to get anyone to follow me. Even long after combat. There is a problem for sure.

I find Right Guard always helps! :butbut:

Jokes, aside I had another look at this and it can be frustrating. It would be handy if there was a "speed up and do not engage command" or a "run to position" etc.

Its possible that the AI pathfinding cannot cope with the load, particularly with the added variables under combat mode.

However, a "run to position" order would be simple to execute. Maybe someone could do a mod with that command.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Graw2Pro

[Master gamawa 0]

Same here. Very hard to get anyone to follow me. Even long after combat. There is a problem for sure.

Just an idea.

Did you ask them to hold fire? Try that

[jw custom 56]

The only thing changed there was that they dont go into combat anymore when you go prone. This problem may have occured in that beta, but AI going into combat when being shot at has always been in the game.

Right then.... the point is that after they added that "feature" AI is a pain to ordering around. It's a struggle to pull your AI mates back from a fight and medics takes ages before giving medical attention even though they sit 1m away(that killed me yesterday).