Group Link 4 Special FX Edition

[snkman 351]

@Cool=Azroul13

One problem SNKMAN in the local config you say remove the // for put the settings false.

But if I do this on this setting:

// Choose if the "Impact FX" feature should be used.

// Description: The "Impact FX" feature do spawn "Impact FX Sparks" and "Impact FX Debris" after a vehicle was hit by a projectile.

// Note: This feature require the "Explosion FX" feature to reach the full range of intensity.

// True / False, default is True

GL4_Local set [43, True];

It's always true No ??

Yes you are right. ;) It should be False.

Sorry my bad... I will change it.

[verde13 0]

SNKMAN, i don't know if you're aware of this but crew is still dismounting their vehicles in the last version. I have been watchiing them getting out and in all the time.

[a_blunt_rifle 10]

where exactly can i find something to read on the reinforcements and how to used the reinforcements system,....and what it does exactly.

[katipo66 94]

where exactly can i find something to read on the reinforcements and how to used the reinforcements system,....and what it does exactly.

It sends pre-placed units as reinforcements - Theres an example mission showing how to use reinforcements, put reinforcement module on map sync to your player and friendly units and call through communication/radio? im not sure if thats 100% right but its pretty simple.

[snkman 351]

@verde13

i don't know if you're aware of this but crew is still dismounting their vehicles in the last version.

If the vehicle is a "Car" all units will dismount the vehicle.

If the vehicle is a "Tank/A.P.C." the "Driver" "Commander" and "Gunner" will not dismount the vehicle.

Same to "Helicopters" the "Driver" "Commander" and "Gunner" will always stay inside of the vehicle.

If something else happend then may you are using other mod's which make dismount the vehicle.

@A_Blunt_Rifle

where exactly can i find something to read on the reinforcements and how to used the reinforcements system,....and what it does exactly.

You can check the "ReadMe.pdf" in the "@GL4\GL4_ReadMe\" folder.

There are multiple way's how to set up the "Enemy A.I. Reinforcement Request" feature.

If you use "C.B.A." then everything will be initialized by "Default".

You can change/stop the "Default" initialize by using the "Group Link 4: System" module and by synchronize a enemy A.I. unit/group with the module once.

The "Enemy A.I. Reinforcement Request" feature allowes enemy A.I. to request A.I. friendly to their own side after they had spotted a enemy ( player ) and after they was overmatched by the enemy ( player ).

[Protegimus 0]

Hi there, since I got my userconfig problem sorted, I played a little Chesty Puller and thats not exactly SF-Nighttime-Rambo-Style. I am happy with the teeth-grittingly hard gameplay I get with GL4 plus ZEUS AI and cannot complain about remarkably decreased OPFOR shooting prowess when using ZEUS AI.

...

touristo

touristo, please send me your mission so that I can test the exact scenario.

Would have been very useful if you'd posted this in the Zeus AI thread too!

It may be helpful for you to understand Zeus AI if I give you some background on why I developed it.

Zeus regularly play reasonably large scale (~30 player) co-op missions against AI, or human + AI. With even a sprinkling of organisation and tactics, plus massive experience with Bohemia Interactive games; the AI could easily be overwhelmed during missions. I did a bit of research and set about improving things, the objectives being to extend engagement ranges, improve firefights and try to make any improvement to the AI performance.

The solution also had to be simple as Zeus is an open community with many new or occasional players dropping in for the gaming nights, so:

1. Server side only (no addons required to be downloaded/configured before someone can join the server)

2. No, or very limited use of scripting so that dedicated server performance and stability would not be affected

Zeus AI probably exceeded expectations for what it is, but of course making AI engage you (plus utilise somewhat effective tactics) at range instead of at 147m (base ArmA 2), then disengage at extended range instead of 148m is a downside at times. Due to the extended disengagement range, they follow up very aggressively and tend to hunt down attackers, as your video demonstrates. They only know the area the firer is in, not the exact whereabouts, but they will happily suppress that area once they spot a threat...

So you see, playing single player missions was never really a consideration and Zeus AI was adopted by some of the most respected gaming communities, e.g. TG because of the additional dynamic it brings.

If I can improve the mod to allow more people to fully enjoy it then that's cool - otherwise GL4 and SLX (or any combination of GL4/SLX/Zeus) may well be more appropriate for different types of play - hopefully the new version will do that.

snkman's work is outstanding and I'm looking forward to testing some of the many features he's introduced, such as inclusion in missions, patrol module, etc.

Protegimus

[oldy41 61]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but this thread has become quite large...

I have problems grasping the subtle differences of the groups when using the module based init:

What exactly is the difference between defence and static groups?

Is it only, that static groups will hunt down the enemy?

Do only the static groups use the garrison feature?

How can I a achieve that certain enemy units do not leave their position at all? I want to position some units behind sandbag walls and have them defend their position to the last bullet ;-)

I tried using "hold" waypoints and synching with the "defence" module, but this does not seem to work. I also tried using no waypoints at all, but then GL4 kicks in, too.

Thanks for any help!

A.

[manzilla 1]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but this thread has become quite large...

I have problems grasping the subtle differences of the groups when using the module based init:

What exactly is the difference between defence and static groups?

Is it only, that static groups will hunt down the enemy?

Do only the static groups use the garrison feature?

How can I a achieve that certain enemy units do not leave their position at all? I want to position some units behind sandbag walls and have them defend their position to the last bullet ;-)

I tried using "hold" waypoints and synching with the "defence" module, but this does not seem to work. I also tried using no waypoints at all, but then GL4 kicks in, too.

Thanks for any help!

A.

Just making sure, did you check the ReadMes he included? Those things are jam packed with info about all the different settings, etc. Also check the userconfig\GL4 folder, those files contain all the settings, etc. and also have brief explanations of what does what.

All this stuff is mentioned in the thread and the support material.

I'd answer more but I just don't have much time and I gotta answer some others. Quickly though:

The static groups will not move, if I remember right. They are great for manning static weapons, snipers that may lie in ambush, etc. They will relay enemy positions but should stay in place.

Garrison, I'm not sure if static ones do or not. They may if another member of their group is manning a near by static weapon, or they may take cover and garrison so to speak when attacked and near appropriate objects. I don't think they will actively seek out any garrisoned positions.

How can I a achieve that certain enemy units do not leave their position at all? I want to position some units behind sandbag walls and have them defend their position to the last bullet ;-)

Use the Static Module.

I could be wrong about all this, s%*t I hope I'm not, so you may want to check the ReadMes. This stuff is all mentioned in the support material and example missions. He's done a great job with documentation.

Lastly, check the "search this thread" feature just below the page numbers at the top of each page of this thread.(I know, people hate hearing this but seriously it's the best tool in the whole damn forum. :)) That thing will narrow down the babble really quickly.

Here's one for "static groups":

http://forums.bistudio.com/search.php?searchid=889370

It may give some better explanations than I.

I hope this helped a little. Good luck and enjoy this excellent Mod.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Manzilla

[oldy41 61]

Just making sure, did you check the ReadMes he included? Those things are jam packed with info about all the different settings, etc. Also check the userconfig\GL4 folder, those files contain all the settings, etc. and also have brief explanations of what does what.

Yes, I RTFM'ed a lot, and yes, I even searched the thread. However, static for one gives so many hits that this is not really helpful in this instance, sorry.

The static groups will not move, if I remember right. They are great for manning static weapons, snipers that may lie in ambush, etc. They will relay enemy positions but should stay in place.

I tried that. Maybe I missed something, but they left their positions. I think they did this to garrison some nearby buildings. At least that is, what the debug info on the map hinted. This behavior would match the documentation.

So what else can I try?

(And yes, I am enjoying this great mod a lot. I have not ceased using it for months :) )

Thanks

A.

[Robalo 465]

From Readme.pdf:

Defend Groups: ( Module ) Defend groups are enemy A.I. groups which will be initialized by the Enemy A.I. Enhancement. Enemy A.I. groups which was synchronized with the “Group Link 4: Defend†module will only defend their position and not try to hunt down the enemy. Defend groups can not be requested as reinforcement but can request other enemy A.I. groups as reinforcement. Defend groups will not advance after they had detected gun fire.

Static Groups: ( Module ) Static groups are enemy A.I. groups which will be initialized by the Enemy A.I. Enhancement. Enemy A.I. groups which was synchronized with the “Group Link 4: Static†module will try to hunt down the enmy after a enemy was spotted. Static groups can not be requested as reinforcement but can request other enemy A.I. groups as reinforcement. Static groups do not advance after they had detected gun fire.

[dmitri 0]

It's definitely the defend module that prevents their movement from static positions.

I have found myself adding it to many missions played on our server since GL4 causes AI from miles away to swarm rather than hold their positions the way the mission creator intended.

Also try ungrouping units at the static position so that they have no leader telling them to engage, leaving their positions.

Edited May 2, 2010 by dmitri

[manzilla 1]

From Readme.pdf:

Wow I see he added some stuff. Damn I'll have to update my missions. That's the part I was talking about though. So it does explain in the ReadMe like I thought.

[oldy41 61]

It's definitely the defend module that prevents their movement from static positions.

...

Also try ungrouping units at the static position so that they have no leader telling them to engage, leaving their positions.

Thanks for your help!

That was what I understood from the docs, too.

However, for me it does not work. Here's what I did:

I positioned a few single (i.e. not grouped) opfor soldiers behind sandbags. In the init line I set their unit position to kneeling. What I want to achieve is, that they do not break away, even under fire, but keep their poitions behind the sandbags and return fire. In ArmA 1 that could be achieved by positioning units with no waypoints.

Arma2 with GL4 linked to the Defend module and with no waypoints:

They start to run from their positions a few seconds after the mission start. (I assume as soon as GL4 init is finished). The debug markers on the map still displays them as "Defend". But they seem to behave similar to static groups in that respect. Maybe GL4 tells them to look for better cover? Since there are some buildings near by they might try to garrison them?

Arma2 with GL4 linked to the Defend module and with 'Hold' waypoints:

With 'Hold' waypoints they hold (sic) their position until contact. On contact they break away a bit. Here I assume, it is micro KI kicking in?

So, is there a way to have soldiers hold their exact positions?

Thanks!

A.

[dmitri 0]

You cannot completely prevent the AI from moving away from their positions with GL4 active. The only full proof way is to disable GL4. Try your mission without GL4 and you'll likely see the AI hold their positions if they're single ungrouped units.

It's great that GL4 increases the aggressive way the AI reacts. Improves the majority of missions out their that consist of a couple of arbitrary AI groups dotted about. Existing missions with very specific AI placements tend to break.

We need a true "hold and defend" module.

Edited May 2, 2010 by dmitri

[snkman 351]

@oldy41

"Static Groups" and "Defend Groups" share the same behaviour in many way's.

Bouth types of groups are stored in the "GL4_Static" array "Defend Groups" use a additional array "GL4_Defend" which makes them not move to a specific position after they had detected a enemy.

"Defend Groups" will garrison buildings like you already have told.

You can stop "Defend Groups" to garrison buildings and strictly stay at their position by simply adding a waypoint to the group in the editor.

You can for example use a "Defend" or "Hold" waypoint directly over the group leader and "Defend Groups" will stay exactly at the position where they was created at. ;)

Edited May 3, 2010 by SNKMAN

[dmitri 0]

You can for example use a "Defend" or "Hold" waypoint directly over the group leader and "Defend Groups" will stay exactly at the position where they was created at. ;)

Our discussion relates to the AI's behaviour after targets are spotted\during combat.

[snkman 351]

Arma2 with GL4 linked to the Defend module and with no waypoints:

They start to run from their positions a few seconds after the mission start. (I assume as soon as GL4 init is finished). The debug markers on the map still displays them as "Defend". But they seem to behave similar to static groups in that respect. Maybe GL4 tells them to look for better cover? Since there are some buildings near by they might try to garrison them?

This was about what i have told with adding a waypoint.

We need a true "hold and defend" module.

What do you want a enemy A.I. group to NOT do after they had spotted a enemy?

The "Defend Groups" really don't move away from their original position after they had spotted a enemy.

Like already told Micro A.I. is playing a big part in all the combat behaviours too.

[oldy41 61]

This was about what i have told with adding a waypoint.

What do you want a enemy A.I. group to NOT do after they had spotted a enemy?

The "Defend Groups" really don't move away from their original position after they had spotted a enemy.

Like already told Micro A.I. is playing a big part in all the combat behaviours too.

The AI does not hold position _exactly_ in combat, neither with nor without GL4 and waypoints. But I really think that is caused by Micro AI.

It is not a big issue, and of course in general a great improvement in comparison to ArmA 1. However, for my specific use it is a minor annoyance.

Thank you all for your help!

A.

[snkman 351]

Yeah that's right.

Very often Micro A.I. is taking control of units and let them make things you never want to make them to do.

This has of course a good and a bad side.

The only way to overcome this would a re-wrote of the Micro A.I. ( FSM ) but this is another story... :)

[dmitri 0]

This was about what i have told with adding a waypoint.

What do you want a enemy A.I. group to NOT do after they had spotted a enemy?

The "Defend Groups" really don't move away from their original position after they had spotted a enemy.

Like already told Micro A.I. is playing a big part in all the combat behaviours too.

Point was simply that we cannot place AI units behind fortifications and expect them to stay there while GL4 is active.

Without GL4 running, place a single AI unit on a runway, give him no waypoints. Fire at him from behind a building. He goes prone and remains stationary. Average bad behaviour for the default AI, bad for anything other than pre-placed static positions.

A minor issue that can perhaps be sorted through some combination of disableAI etc. No worries...

[firefly2442 6]

Are there any additional tutorials or videos on how to use this mod? I've read the readme and features PDF files but I'm still confused. I put:

this setVariable [“GL4_Patrolâ€, [100, “SAFEâ€, “LIMITEDâ€] ];

This in the initialization of the leader of an enemy group. However, when I load it up, the group just stands there. Do I need to add a module and link them?

Thanks.

[manzilla 1]

SNKMAN,

I'm a bit confused by the new versions ReadMe about Static Groups. One section says the will hunt down enemies:

Static Groups: ( Module ) Static groups are enemy A.I. groups which will be initialized by the Enemy A.I. Enhancement. Enemy A.I. groups which was synchronized with the “Group Link 4: Static†module will try to hunt down the enmy after a enemy was spotted. Static groups can not be requested as reinforcement but can request other enemy A.I. groups as reinforcement. Static groups do not advance after they had detected gun fire.

But further down it says the don't advance after gun fire is heard and that they are used to defend a base or certain area:

Static groups do not advance after they had detected gunfire. Static groups are used to stay at their position to protect a base, secure a area or to stay in a specific area for whatever reason.

That's a bit confusing. I always thought a Static group was used for units manning static weapons, to set up behind fortifcations or for snipers and such. They will basically stay where they are but call in reinforcements. That's what I always used this module for in a few public missions and it worked well. I made these missions before the Defend Module was ever there.

But according to some posts here, the Static groups are for hunting down enemies and the defend module is for defending and units that stay put.

Which one is it? Did the purpose of the Static Module change in a recent version? I haven't really made a mission with this for a few months so I'm a bit confused whether things changed and my missions need upgrading.

[Robalo 465]

Firefly: from my understanding, if you're using the default GL4 init (no GL4 System module in the mission), what you did should be enough.

If you placed the GL4 System module into your mission then you will need to sync the leader to one of the Custom, Defend or Static modules.

Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

---------- Post added at 04:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 AM ----------

But according to some posts here, the Static groups are for hunting down enemies and the defend module is for defending and units that stay put.

None of the Static or Defend groups will be called as reinforcements. The only difference is that Static groups will react to gunfire/seeing you and move to engage while the Defend groups will stay put.

I don't know about before, but after the Defend feature appeared, I've seen Static groups leaving their positions to engage so I started changing all of my Static groups to Defend groups in the missions. I think the last quote from the doc should be corrected, was probably valid when there was no Defend module.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Robalo_AS

[manzilla 1]

Are there any additional tutorials or videos on how to use this mod? I've read the readme and features PDF files but I'm still confused. I put:

This in the initialization of the leader of an enemy group. However, when I load it up, the group just stands there. Do I need to add a module and link them?

Thanks.

Firefly,

Not sure why you use that way. Never even seen it before. Just link the unit leaders to the Modules. It's a helluva a lot simpler.

The easiest thing to do is to check out all the different example missions that come with it.

None of the Static or Defend groups will be called as reinforcements. The only difference is that Static groups will react to gunfire/seeing you and move to engage while the Defend groups will stay put.

I don;t know about before, but after the Defend feature appeared, I've seen Static groups leaving their positions to engage so I started changing all of my Static groups to Defend groups in the missions.

That's kinda the impression that I'm getting but I guess I'm just confused why the ReadMe really makes it unclear. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong but one section seems to say one thing and the other section says something completely different.

Thanks for the response. I guess I'll have to make some changes. At least it's just as simple as switching the Module in my case. It's a good excuse to revisit my old missions anyways. I'm sure they need updating, especially for ACE2.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Manzilla

[firefly2442 6]

I looked at the 1-1-87_Example mission file and I'm a little confused. The groups at the top of the island are all linked to a defend module. I'm guessing this is if you want the units to stay at their position and guard it with the ability to call for reinforcements from other squads linked/synchronized in. For the groups on the south east side of the island, they are synchronized with one another but upon loading the mission, they just stand there. On loading the mission, it talks about a new feature being patrol, but none of the groups actually move.

So essentially, what I would like is for my groups to be linked together so that if they get attacked they can coordinate the defense. However, I also want them to be able to patrol around upon starting the mission. Can I do this all with scripting using GL4 or will I need waypoints too?

Thanks, sorry for all the questions but I'm kinda new at this. :)