Mid east

[scout 0]

i'm correcting myself. it wasnt Iodine, but Cyanide and pottasium bases in larger amounts.

the pals were observed moving 24 bodies from graves outside Jenin to the graves of those who have died in the battles.

dunno what good it'll make, i think you can check when someone died no?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Here is my secret weapon boys!

[scout 0]

im blind! im blind!

[Guest]

That must be against the Geneva convention!

[Hilandor 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ April 26 2002,01:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Here is my secret weapon boys!    <span id='postcolor'>

lolol is that isrealie soldier holding up his middle finger or is he on the radio to command headquarters, wondering how to deal with such an awsome weapon.

[Pete 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hilandor @ April 27 2002,12:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ April 26 2002,01:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Here is my secret weapon boys!    <span id='postcolor'>

lolol is that isrealie soldier holding up his middle finger or is he on the radio to command headquarters, wondering how to deal with such an awsome weapon.<span id='postcolor'>

calling for artillery support or a airstrike?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

No he is holding up his middle finger to indicate this guy: "lift it up, so I can see that nothing is hidden under it!"

BTW: wow the occupation and the "seek and destroy all terorists" was realy successful wasnt it?

The attack of Adora where 4 Israeli settlers got killed by pals convinces me that in fact the opposite is the case. And it wont be the last attack. I mean didnt we all say that? It wont help! Of course "in the long run"...you gonna say now; or maybe you gonna say "we lowered the intensity of the attacks".

Only for a while! The suicide bombers gonna come back....wanna bet? (let me see how much I can bet for, it is the end of the month..not the best time to ask for money!

Anyway..the UN-delegation that came to see Jenin has to wait.......and wait...and wait

[Guest]

I really don't think it is easy to stop terrorism in an open society. Especially if people are ready to kill themselves. Anybody can go into a supermarket and blow themselves up. Border checks can only work to a certain degree, but not very good, as the suicide bombings in Israel have shown.

[Longinius 1]

"any way the comittee is due tomorrow and no one will prevent them to go inside."

Seems you were wrong there since they are STILL not let inside.

[KingBeast 0]

"On Thursday an Israeli sergeant involved in fighting in the heart of Jenin told the Washington Times that charges of a massacre were "not true".

However the soldier, who spoke to the paper anonymously, revealed that his unit had received orders to fire even if they could not see their targets. "

Is it just me, or does that seem vastly irresponsible and unprofessional to order your soldiers to shoot at targets that you cannot even see?

[Pete 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ April 29 2002,14:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is it just me, or does that seem vastly irresponsible and unprofessional to order your soldiers to shoot at targets that you cannot even see?<span id='postcolor'>

not at all...any civilian casualties that cant be blamed on the opposing side are not civilian but just terrorists or helpers of those.

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pete @ April 29 2002,18:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ April 29 2002,14:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is it just me, or does that seem vastly irresponsible and unprofessional to order your soldiers to shoot at targets that you cannot even see?<span id='postcolor'>

not at all...any civilian casualties that cant be blamed on the opposing side are not civilian but just terrorists or helpers of those.<span id='postcolor'>

What? Is this a serious comment?

[Pete 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ April 29 2002,19:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What? Is this a serious comment?<span id='postcolor'>

nope

i quess i got too famous for being a "serious poster"....

pretty much ALL that is held against israel here is dismissed as that...

ambulances shot at by tanks? = ambulances been used as terrorist-limousines

hospital shot at? = shots fired from hospital and its also been sued to hide terrorists (wounded ones?)

houses razed with people in them? = shots being fired from houses

possible massacre and why UN kept out from seeing it? = to keep safety for un personell...

critic of israel (by europe) = europeans are anti-semits

keep the list going...you find nothing bad done by israelis, there is a excuse for everything..

[Major Fubar 0]

OK Pete, I'm on the same page as you now.

Yes, that definiately is the way certain people view it: that Israel can do no wrong.

It takes two to conflict, and to look at it in very simple terms, people who are prepared to die attacking an "enemy" country must have some sort of grievance (yes thay are fanatics, but why are they fanatical ?).

I stick by the same comments I have made in this thread again and again: neither side is blameless. Until both sides can talk compromise and act like civilized societies, this conflict will never end.

[Pete 1]

exactly...WHY are they fanatical?

religion alone is not a excuse, nor is political leadership..or media.

in THIS case israeli occupation IS a major reason for it...i remember seeing many years ago on tv how israeli soldiers broke hands of stonetrhowing protesters...not by accidental harsh treatment...i saw them drag the victims to a place and then hold the hand in a position when a other soldier kicks it so it gets dislocated...

now the same "army" is acting as angels and worrying over civilian losses?...please.

[scout 0]

in 'Nam the US army had serious problem with drugs, does it have it still? the german army was responsible for many atrocities do they do it still?. should i count some more? are you saying that it cant change? do you REALLY believe it? the answer is of course: NO!

there were some harsh stuff going on in the army 10 years ago, but those who were responsible for such acts were tried and went to jail, and couple of regiment CO's lost their ranks and were laid off.

think a bit before you let your fingers artistic freedom will ya?

[scout 0]

BTW. r u sayin that the occupation had cause hatred? please.....give me a break. the first pogrom of jewish population in the 20th century in israel was in 1929, while the brits were still here, which showed us pretty well that they hate us. then the pogroms of 1936-1939, the pact between the mufti of jerualem and Nazi germany, and so on.

[Pete 1]

your right scout..of course it CAN change..perhaps and most likely it did change, im not saying that you still break hands of the stonethrowers (was about than five-six years ago i saw it on the news)...but i find it impossible to believe that the same army is now a bunch of angels who do no harm to others than terrorists and even then ONLY after you been fired at first.

but that is how it sounds reading your posts...no bad is ever done by the IDF, even things as shooting ambulances, media, documented cases of ill-deeds...but no, it all has a excuse...do you have some sort of organisation there who works full time to give "good-idf/bad-pals" propaganda to you?...since pretty much everything bad reported to be done by IDF is dismissed as lies or wrong facts...im sure you do.

i read that now as IDF is letting arafat out of his prison they first took time to drive over his armored mercedes (more than one..how to say mercedes in plural?) and his other cars with tanks....possible terrorists hiding behind them as well or was it just a childish act of showing who is the boss?

im sure those cars never been used in a act of war against israel, so why were they wrecked?...was it a goverment order or was it some soldiers having fun?...if it is the case of the latter then i find it very believabe that they DO shoot at anything that moves AS HAS BEEN REPORTED by "indepent" sources...if it was ordered then i also believe thats shooting ambulances is a order by the goverment and IT MAKES SHARON RESPONSIBLE FOR A CRIME OF WAR.

but it is totally pointless to even try to argue for solutions for peace when one side totally ignores own faults..and i mean TOTALLY.

i believe that both sides are ugly, both are wrong...you clearly believe that your side is god-chosen people who do no wrong when fighting (defending against?) dirty all-are-terrorist-palestinians whose only goal is to kill you all.

but hey...propaganda making one side look as childeating barbarians while making own troops seem as brave caring motherlike soldiers is nothing new...its been done by the romans against the carthageans some 2000 years ago, and im sure even before that.

but its weird how the propaganda works today when one has internet and can find more information than just what the goverment and own media issues....

[Major Fubar 0]

Geez Pete, you know he is only going to pull out "facts" to prove everything you said was wrong

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

An interesting solution.

Two states within one border

a bit 'out there' but worth thinking about

(+not dissimilar to plans of the past)

http://forums.military.com/1....1905624

From a 'Pvt.Savage'

most of the stuff this guy says is repugnant dumb reactionary drivel but occasionaly he shows flashes of sentient thought.

well... read and respond

[Oligo 1]

You know, I read some interesting statistics recently:

During her lifetime, an average israeli woman bears a little over two offspring (2.7 if I remember correctly) to become an angelic defender of liberty for the IDF. This child-production figure is slightly high for a 'western' country, but it is nothing compared to the average palestinian woman, who on the average produces over seven (7.2 if my memory serves me) stone-throwing, suicide bombing terrorists during her lifetime. This means the population of pals in Gaza and West Bank doubles every ten years. If the conflict was to go on for another fifty years for example, the pal population will have exploded to 32 times the current size. Of course all those people have had the fifty years of occupation to get more pissed.

Oh, BTW, the seven children per woman is one of the highest reproduction speeds of human populations on Earth.

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ May 02 2002,07:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">..... angelic defender of liberty for the IDF.....

..... stone-throwing, suicide bombing terrorists .....<span id='postcolor'>

Sarcasm perhaps?

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ May 02 2002,08:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ May 02 2002,07:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">..... angelic defender of liberty for the IDF.....

..... stone-throwing, suicide bombing terrorists .....<span id='postcolor'>

Sarcasm perhaps?  <span id='postcolor'>

Errr.... no?

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ May 02 2002,07:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the pal population will have exploded to 32 times the current size.<span id='postcolor'>

Exploded, like in booom?

[scout 0]

im not saying that we are angelic were not devils either.

although some of you and most of the pals do the best to show that we are, to the point of accusing of massacre and executions although no evidence were supplied.

that makes me sick to the stomach, and my goal is to correct those things. i do know, from first person experience that moral issues are number one in the IDF, all the more becuase some incidents that happened years ago. since then, there was a big point in the army to prevent it to happen.

yes, we proud ourselves that we take moral issues seriously, that when a terrorist is shooting from behind the cover of civvies we try to close in to avoid casualties, that we try not to harm the population, that we try not to make any unnessery damage. yes there are rotten weeds, just like in any army, but those who get out of line are treated harshly.

there are multiple cases, like shooting ambulances and etc. that not all information is presented by the media. i try to correct that either, but that is accepted as propoganda (i undertand it but i believe thats the truth).

point is, that the ppl that im among them, that ARE the IDF, that for couple of weeks are soldiers, that are facing difficult situations there, try to keep our humanity, not for you and not for the pals, although they deserve it one way or the other, but for us, so we could come back whole.

this job is walking between the drops, on one hand, to do what i can to keep my men, and my ppl safe, and on the other not to humiliate the population. and i know that we do a quite good job at this,and watching any other army in the world at it, i know we do it better.

there are incidents that should not have happened, but there are incidents that are using devices like ambulances and media vehicles and even UN vehicles, that are solely to provoke and make everyone feel that we do it intentionaly.

that has nothing to do with my political views and the IDF is political as the swedish army for that matter.

thats all.