Mid east

[KingBeast 0]

I think biological weapons could be a very real threat. For example, what if someone were to go around and infect a couple of people in a major city with small pox? These people would travel all around spreading it. And we would be totally unprepared for that, what with thinking smallpox was totally annihilated.

I think its all dependent on the kind of biological weapon you are using.

Im sure it is very possible to enginner some kind of super virus that spreads like wildfire and is lethal.

[foxer 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ April 09 2002,14:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ April 09 2002,14:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't see usa putting mines all over the world,like in farm land and other stuff.The problem with mines are not western problem,but 3rd world country problem,or if a country is having trouble with rebels.<span id='postcolor'>

Did you know that U.S. has fucked their exercise areas in Panama so throughoutly with unexploded munitions and mines that the natives are a little restless. They don't think it is cool that you have turned those areas into mini-Afganistans. So yes you do put mines all over the world.<span id='postcolor'>

Well,USA is more careful then most countries with mines.Most of the problems come with mines that are wooden,or someone just goes around their country places the mines around.

Bio weapons are dangerous.Someone can put something in city water system,or some other high traffic area.Soo it will spread quick that it's uncontrolable.That means alot of people die.It probably took us a nuclear blast to learn us how bad nukes are.

[Longinius 1]

"I don't see usa putting mines all over the world,like in farm land and other stuff.The problem with mines are not western problem,but 3rd world country problem,or if a country is having trouble with rebels."

The problem will arise in any war that you use mines to any extent. Minefields get forgotten or never even marked to start with. This is the biggest problem.

[KingBeast 0]

And back on topic, would seem Israel have withdrawn from two minor areas as a show of respect to US wishes I guess, but they are stil lraging on in the rest of palestinian territory.

Israeli troops have entered the village of Dura

[KingBeast 0]

"Heavy fighting has broken out between Israeli soldiers and Palestinians in the West Bank town of Jenin, with reports of heavy casualties on both sides"

BBC News

[Oligo 1]

"I think biological weapons could be a very real threat. For example, what if someone were to go around and infect a couple of people in a major city with small pox? These people would travel all around spreading it. And we would be totally unprepared for that, what with thinking smallpox was totally annihilated."

I'm happy to tell you that even U.S. has enough vaccine to inoculate their population (minus maybe some homeless 2nd class citizens) against smallpox. So as soon as some cases of smallpox are detected somewhere (it doesn't kill you in 1 day you know), mass inoculations start. In the end, you have a few hundred casualties max. It's still a lot easier to plow a plane into WTC or shoot up your friends in school.

"I think its all dependent on the kind of biological weapon you are using. I'm sure it is very possible to enginner some kind of super virus that spreads like wildfire and is lethal."

Being a genetic engineer myself, I have followed the field pretty closely. And I can assure you that engineering any effects of that much complexity are still beyond the reach of our current knowledge.

Hell, you need only to look at the recent natural cases of outbreaks. Even the murderous hemorrhagic fevers (ebola) have managed to cause only minor casualties.

"Bio weapons are dangerous.Someone can put something in city water system,or some other high traffic area.Soo it will spread quick that it's uncontrolable.That means alot of people die.It probably took us a nuclear blast to learn us how bad nukes are."

You'd better put chem weapons to water systems, that would cause more casualties. Like I told you, 'bio blasts' have happened and the effects were insignificant.

[foxer 0]

If the israelis and Palestinians were at peace,no fighting at all,no suicide bombers,no nothing.What do you think the middle-east people would be watching on the news ? Would they be watching how the usa is doing an ok job in afghanistan ? Or how usa is thinking about iraq ? I seen a news report on how some middle-east country wanted no peace with the israelis and palestinians,because the bad press on the israelis and usa makes them look better.

[Satchel 0]

Seems like the EU is consequent in it´s course towards Israel, more so than the U.S..

According to Spiegel there currently is a weapon Embargo against Israel ongoing, with some western states, among them Britain and France, delaying deliverance of needed spare sparts or already forcing a complete stop.

The Israeli department of defence stated that Germany, more precisely Joschka Fischer, being one of the prime initiators behind it.

The Israeli minister of defence Benjamin Ben-Elieser already wrote a letter to Joschka Fischer, according to israeli press sources there are currently thoughts within the Israeli department of defence to put Germany´s NS past more into focus and link it with the weapon embargo.

My bet is that Israel is going to be alone pretty soon and fast, if they continue their course and politics.

If Sharon continues his offensive, it is likely that Israel will  be isolated politically as moral-wise.

[KingBeast 0]

There was a BBC documentary style program on a month or two ago, it was a mock up documentary that was acting as though there had been a smallpox epidemic, showing us what it would be like o nthe tv and such. Interviewing families and victims and such.

And after that was a lot of talk about the availability of vaccine.

In this documentary at the start of the outbreak the UK or US did not have enough vaccine to help everybody, but over time enoguh was created. There were nasty losses, but nothing that was apocalyptic.

And the fact that small pox doesnt kil lyou in one day is what makes things worse, because as it spreads to thousands of people, all of these people at first will just think they are coming down with the flu or a common cold.

[LordZach 0]

innoculate everyone? have you ever been to the ER before under normal circumstances? it takes you hours just to get in! can you imagine how much of an unorganized frenzy innoculating the entire population would be? then again they could do it to downtown London for supporting the U.S...

[Oligo 1]

"innoculate everyone? have you ever been to the ER before under normal circumstances? it takes you hours just to get in! can you imagine how much of an unorganized frenzy innoculating the entire population would be? then again they could do it to downtown London for supporting the U.S..."

They did this sort of mass inoculation in Finland once in my lifetime. It wasn't an emergency or anything, but for some reason they decided to inoculate everyone fast. It took about a week and our whole 5 million was inoculated. Pretty efficient, eh?

You're forgetting that inoculating one person takes about five seconds and you can do it on the street if you have to. Any nurse, paramedic or drug addict can give the shot. Thus comparing it to an ER situation is not viable.

"And after that was a lot of talk about the availability of vaccine. In this documentary at the start of the outbreak the UK or US did not have enough vaccine to help everybody, but over time enoguh was created"

You should read the papers. After the anthrax scare in the U.S., they got enough vaccine for everybody. Of course Finland has had it all along.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ April 09 2002,14:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ April 09 2002,14:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ April 09 2002,14:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't see usa putting mines all over the world,like in farm land and other stuff.The problem with mines are not western problem,but 3rd world country problem,or if a country is having trouble with rebels.<span id='postcolor'>

Did you know that U.S. has fucked their exercise areas in Panama so throughoutly with unexploded munitions and mines that the natives are a little restless. They don't think it is cool that you have turned those areas into mini-Afganistans. So yes you do put mines all over the world.<span id='postcolor'>

Well,USA is more careful then most countries with mines.Most of the problems come with mines that are wooden,or someone just goes around their country places the mines around.

Bio weapons are dangerous.Someone can put something in city water system,or some other high traffic area.Soo it will spread quick that it's uncontrolable.That means alot of people die.It probably took us a nuclear blast to learn us how bad nukes are.<span id='postcolor'>

Right now, the remainders of the Daisy Cutters appears to become more dangerous to children in Afghanistan than ordinary mines. Not all shells did explode and children like to collect those. There already have been several cases when of accidents.

If a war is clean or not does not show once the enemy is dead but 10 years later. There is absolutely no reason why the US didnt sign the Ottawa treaty against (only against) personal land-mines. Can you give me one?

Things that are never realy discussed in the average US press. Or people dont care about. Now of course if you only know about the Iraq and war against terrorism then it becomes the 'most urgent problem'

[Pukko 0]

WTF!!!

I decided to look for the US 'mine bombs' deployed in Afganistan, as Albert seems to have wrongly called 'Daisy Cutters'. I do not remember the name of those bombs, so I went to search on Google for:

'us mines bomb afganistan' [gave 459 hits]

and

'us bomb afganistan' [gave 5960 hits]

Are Google working together with US ministry of propaganda (or what its called in reality)?? I really expected to see like 10 000 000 hits or something. Any comments?

[Longinius 1]

I thought Daisy Cutters were those fuel bombs, that make the big BOOOOOM.

Sure you arent talking about cluster bombs?

[Supah 0]

Try looking for cluster bombs.

[Pukko 0]

Indeed, clusterbombs it seems to be (just vaugly remembered the talk of US bombs with nondetonated parts acting like mines).

But does no one think its remarkable few hits, thinking about the hype about Afganistan the last 7 months? Its probably mentioned as much on this forum alone...

A search for 'afganistan' only gave 195 000 hits.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

sorry, yes indeed I was wrong. I meant cluster-bombs, I was just slightly confused because I had just read an article about bombs used in Afghanistan. Of course is the Daisy Cutter a gazoline bomb! My reference to the danger of unexploded US cluster-bombs in Afghanistan could be the following:Cluster bombs kill children (initially I read it in the Times but I couldnt find it nomore, but here you find a reference to this article I read, (not the best source)

BTW here you find a tiny flash animation that explains how a Daisy Cutter works! Daisy Cutter Flash Animation

And I got more for you!

Possible future targets for the US

Just surf around a little there, It is not the most sophisticated Site but good to get an overview

[KingBeast 0]

Hey I found some interesting info relating to the palestinian/israel fiasco.

Get this, I have letters to the BBC from both an Israeli girl and a Palestinian girl. Its very interesting to read these and compare them to what we have been talking about.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Iris lives in Israel. She describes what it's like living in an area where there is destruction all around.

"I live in non-stop fear. I have stopped going to public places, I fear for my life and those of my family and friends.

I'm also upset because of the world media, we always see tanks in Ramallah (town in the West Bank) but almost never what's happening at the same time in Israel.

The Israeli army isn't in the West Bank because they enjoy it.

It's the only way to prevent some of the terror attacks on Israeli civilians - there have been several bombers everyday for the last couple of weeks.

I feel it's easy for Europe to be against Israel fighting the Palestinians.

I know a tank versus a Palestinian gunman looks bad on TV, but I think there's no difference between these fights and the USA attacking Afghanistan.

The Palestinian Authority educates haters towards Israel. Young children write "fan letters" to the dead suicide bombers.

This is a war against terrorists who threaten innocent life."

Iris, 16, Israel

-----------------------------------------------------------

Mirna is Palestinian but lives in Britain because of the dangers in the Middle East. She describes what it's like for her family still there.

"I am a Palestinian girl living in Scotland. I moved to Scotland four years ago, and before that I was living in the Arabian Gulf.

I have never lived in Palestinian areas for fear of war but my family is living there and they are suffering badly.

My cousin was in her house when an F-16 plane flew near her house and bombed a nearby police station.

She was alone at the time. The police station was about 6 miles away from the house so when they did bomb the police station, all the windows in her house got shattered.

People don't realise how many Palestinian children are actually suffering in this terrible war.

They make them out to be terrorists because they are trying to fight for what is truly theirs.

It's a shame really because these children have a big future ahead of them.

Palestinian children are dying. Remember what they go through every day."

Mirna, 14, Edinburgh

[red oct 2]

[rpc007 0]

heh

[Oligo 1]

[sARCASM MODE ON]

Gross weight = 312.000 Lbs.

Explosive jet fuel = 23980 gal.

Unit price for a terrorist hijacker = Cost of airline tickets

The look on their faces, when this monster slams into their skyscraper.....

                              -PRICELESS-

[sARCASM MODE OFF]

Two can play this game.   Stop posting this U.S. bravado crap.

[Oligo 1]

[Longinius 1]

Oligo, you are so f'ed up ; )

[Oligo 1]

I just got tired of watching all those 'nuke the Afganistan' pictures posted so frequently in here. It seems that adolecent yanks are jerking off to pictures of bombs nowadays, not naked women.

[foxer 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ April 10 2002,07:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[sARCASM MODE ON]

Gross weight = 312.000 Lbs.

Explosive jet fuel = 23980 gal.

Unit price for a terrorist hijacker = Cost of airline tickets

The look on their faces, when this monster slams into their skyscraper.....

                              -PRICELESS-

[sARCASM MODE OFF]

Two can play this game.    Stop posting this U.S. bravado crap.<span id='postcolor'>

You may have started a flame war.Plus it's not funny when you kill civilians.But very creation.Did you get a hard on when you seen the planes hit the towers ?