Mid east

[Die Alive 0]

Palestinian children carry a mock coffin covered by a American flag commemorating Rachel Corrie, 23, from Olympia, Washington, a member of the 'International Solidarity Movement' during a memorial service at the Rafah refugee camp in the southern Gaza strip, Monday, March 17, 2003. Corrie was run over and crushed to death by an Israeli army bulldozer Sunday, March 16, 2003, while she was trying to stop it from tearing down a building in the Rafah refugee camp, witnesses said.

Holy shit, a US flag that's not being burned in the Gaza strip. That's so rare.

-=Die Alive=-

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Die Alive @ Mar. 17 2003,20:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">a US flag that's not being burned in the Gaza strip.  That's so rare.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes.

Usually they're well-done.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 17 2003,13:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It wasn't murder.<span id='postcolor'>Plain and simple speculation.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 17 2003,13:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It wasn't intentional.<span id='postcolor'>Plain and simple speculation.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 17 2003,13:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The driver couldn't clearly see anything once she got that close.<span id='postcolor'>Plain and simple speculation.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 17 2003,13:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">He most likely didn't hear her megaphone, if he was wearing ear protectors or radio headphone.<span id='postcolor'>Plain and simple speculation.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 17 2003,13:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Even he did, he most probably heard the same trash being spewed out by ISM-niks like he's heard in the past.<span id='postcolor'>Plain and simple speculation.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 17 2003,13:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Plain and simple.<span id='postcolor'>Plain and simple speculation.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 17 2003,13:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Of course, all of you are prime witnesses.<span id='postcolor'>Plain and simple bullshit.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 17 2003,13:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bernadotte even knows that there were 2 bulldozers - yet admits he doesn't know which one did it.<span id='postcolor'>Umm... So what?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 17 2003,13:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So that the pictures posted may be completely irrelevant, according to your own words.<span id='postcolor'>I said no such thing.  Please don't put words in my mouth.

The only image that might lend some relevance to the eye witness testimony is the one showing Rachel lying centered between the tracks where she is claimed to have fallen - not near of just inward from the edge where she was seen standing.  The fell-from-the-edge-theory is purely of your own invention.

Here's another image for you to speculate about.  You may have convinced yourself that the operator did not know she was in front of his machine, but it only makes you sound like the WWII Germans who later claimed ignorance of the camps.  Save your breath.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 17 2003,13:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BTW, Bernadotte, Jewish Hebron was indeed occupied until 1967.<span id='postcolor'>No more than Brooklyn is today.

[killagee 0]

I'm with bernodette.

Avon. I am sure we understand where your view is coming from. But having lived and traveled with many current and past IDF soldiers, I reckon he didnt think twice about running her over.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (killagee @ Mar. 18 2003,10:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm with bernodette.

Avon. I am sure we understand where your view is coming from. But having lived and traveled with many current and past IDF soldiers, I reckon he didnt think twice about running her over.

 <span id='postcolor'>

Having lived in this country for most of my life and being the neighbor of coworkers and neighbors who already have children in the IDF, besides our husbands, I reckon you don't know much anything about what's going on in the minds of most IDF soldiers or the rest of us for that matter.

[theavonlady 2]

I'd like to add:

1. I hope the IDF thoroughly investigates the case, as they do. I hope they have the brains to publish the outcome, either way, which they don't.

2. It's time for the IDF to send public warnings to all of these people that their direct endangerment of our soldiers and hence our citizens and interefence with military activities will result in them being treated as a direct threat. That means they can be shot at intentionally and bulldozers don't have to stop. Plain and simple. Further those captured should be subject to the same conditions as any enemy forces and not simply expelled by the Interior Ministry for being law-breaking tourists.

[killagee 0]

I apologise that I engaged in stereotyping of IDF soldiers, Something I dislike immensley. And yes. I live in New Zealand, which has not had war on its own soil since 1861. I regeret any offence to you Avon Lady. (insert red face here). But I believe this affords me an interesting view on these issues. As well as being the world greatest travellers per capita, we also have a huge amount of tourists from allover the world. I have had the oppurtunity of having a recent Serb immigrant (ex-soldier) and a croat mother who's two sons (13 and 17) were executed by the serbs, haggling with me to buy my car at the same time! I talked to them (after they stoppped shouting at each other) for about an hour. Niether bought my car. I also have had a drunken engagement with a palestinian couple and an isreali couple. Amazing night. Just before the bar closed we met a Palestininan / Isreali couple. I found all parties to be full of a hatred for each other I cant begin to comprehend. Neither were willing to accept or believe what each other said. ( execpt everybody agreed the band that was playing were crap). Its nice to be able to sit on the fence and judge sometimes. I presume you dont have that luxury Avon.

Sorry for my waffling. but please reply to this bit Avon...

I went to a forum held by an experienced Race Relations conciliator that had returned from the middle east. In his summary he said that the palestinians had it ten times worse than the Coloreds ever had under Apartheid rule in south africa. Something also expressed by Noam Chomsky in the book "understanding power". ie. The water table is at 12meters, but arabs are only allowed to drill to 6 meters etc...But Noam is American, and the Race Relations guy was from Brazil, I am from New Zealand. Can you give us an opinion from where you live?

P.S. Please dont take this as flame material....

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 18 2003,09:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's time for the IDF to send public warnings to all of these people that their direct endangerment of our soldiers and hence our citizens and interefence with military activities will result in them being treated as a direct threat. That means they can be shot at intentionally and bulldozers don't have to stop. Plain and simple.<span id='postcolor'>

I think we'd all appreciate it if you would find out why the IDF was demolishing the home of a Palestinian physician before you come in here claiming that protecting that doctor's home was in some way a direct threat to your soldiers/citizens, such that you should shoot the peace activists.  Please understand that this is not an invitation for you or any fanatics like you to spew more of your rabid speculation.  I'm merely inviting you to share with us with some of the facts about this particular incident that have convinced you that Rachel deserved to be crushed by a bulldozer.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (killagee @ Mar. 18 2003,10:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sorry for my waffling. but please reply to this bit Avon...

I went to a forum held by an experienced Race Relations conciliator that had returned from the middle east. In his summary he said that the palestinians had it ten times worse than the Coloreds ever had under Apartheid rule in south africa.<span id='postcolor'>

Are you referring to 1948-1967, when the Arabs themselves kept their brothers penned into Gaza?

Or are you referring to 1964-present, since the establishment of the PLO whose main charter aim and continued goal is the destruction of the state of Israel?

Apartheid? Are there separate seats on buses for Arabs in Israel?

Are they banned from shopping malls?

Are they cordoned off in separate wards in hospitals here?

Speaking of "worse than apartheid", see what happens when a Jew walks into an arab village or town. The lynches are on the other side of the border.

Well what can I expect from some who quotes radical foam at the mouth anarchists like Noam Chomsky.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Something also expressed by Noam Chomsky in the book "understanding power". ie. The water table is at 12meters, but arabs are only allowed to drill to 6 meters etc...But Noam is American, and the Race Relations guy was from Brazil, I am from New Zealand. Can you give us an opinion from where you live?<span id='postcolor'>

You really expect me or you for that matter to know about the details and complexities of water rights?

I did manage to find this.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 18 2003,11:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think we'd all appreciate it if you would find out why the IDF was demolishing the home of a Palestinian physician before you come in here claiming that protecting that doctor's home was in some way a direct threat to your soldiers/citizens<span id='postcolor'>

Sniper position on the Rafiah border strip.

A private house turned into a military target by the doctor's own people.

The Palestinians are indeed their worst enemy.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 18 2003,10:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 18 2003,11:o4)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think we'd all appreciate it if you would find out why the IDF was demolishing the home of a Palestinian physician before you come in here claiming that protecting that doctor's home was in some way a direct threat to your soldiers/citizens<span id='postcolor'>

Sniper position on the Rafiah border strip.

A private house turned into a military target by the doctor's own people.<span id='postcolor'>

Where did you read/hear about the doctor allowing his house to be used as a sniper position?

[Longinius 1]

If an assassin uses my apartment as a staging point for shooting a diplomat, can the police then tare down my house?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Mar. 18 2003,11:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If an assassin uses my apartment as a staging point for shooting a diplomat, can the police then tare down my house?<span id='postcolor'>

The PA has defacto declared war on Israel. How do you compare this with a local isolated incident?

Surely you're not trying hard enough this morning.

[killagee 0]

Thats the response I was asking for. Thank You Avon. The link you posted was interseting, and informative, if not a bit biased. It conflicts with the current BBC study "Water. All around us". However this study wont be completed for another month or so, so lets leave the water question for now. OK, so another question arises... In a few minutes on a GAMING site, I have learnt more alot more than if I read CNN etc... What does that tell us?

The only comment of yours I take offence to is you labelling Noam Chomsky as a "foaming at the mouth anarchist". What the... I try very hard to get my information from a variety of viewpoints, and Noam Chomsky's writing often dispells his own arguments as he makes them, then dispells these arguments etc etc etc. His writing is not self serving, neither has he ever said he has the answers. But he DOES have the questions.

He Says this about the PLO. and I quote

"...I have always thought the PLO is the most corrupt and incompetent Third World movement I have ever seen... "

I appreciate you finding me the history of the water problem. Interesting.

I would also like to add, though slightly off-topic, that the UN weapons inspectors should enter Israel to recover the 32 "Ostrich Egg" man-portable Nuclear Devices sold to them by the US in 1986. These weapons were deemed illegal under the Disarmement pact between US and Russia. Hey arent the pictures of Backfire bombers being cut up nice, you can see right inside them...I cant wait till the pics of B-1s and B-52;'s being cut up come out. They will make great desktop backgrounds...

[Longinius 1]

"The PA has defacto declared war on Israel. How do you compare this with a local isolated incident?

Surely you're not trying hard enough this morning."

I just think its pretty daft to try and destroy all possible cover for a sniper, instead of going after the sniper. There is ALWAYS a place for a sniper to hide. Destroying a physicians home doesnt change that.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 18 2003,10:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The PA has defacto declared war on Israel.<span id='postcolor'>

Actually it's quite the contrary.  For example:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">On July 22, 2002, militant Palestinian resistance movements, Fatah, Tanzim, and Hamas issued a joint declaration of a unilateral ceasefire. Ninety minutes later, Ariel Sharon, desperate to avoid peace, responded by sending a bomber who dropped a one-ton U.S. made bomb on a three-storey apartment complex in Gaza City, one of the most heavily populated regions in the world. This attack killed 17 civilians, mostly women and children, injured 160 more, and was touted as "a great success."<span id='postcolor'>

Your turn.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 18 2003,11:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Actually it's quite the contrary.  For example:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">On July 22, 2002, militant Palestinian resistance movements, Fatah, Tanzim, and Hamas issued a joint declaration of a unilateral ceasefire. Ninety minutes later, Ariel Sharon, desperate to avoid peace, responded by sending a bomber who dropped a one-ton U.S. made bomb on a three-storey apartment complex in Gaza City, one of the most heavily populated regions in the world. This attack killed 17 civilians, mostly women and children, injured 160 more, and was touted as "a great success."<span id='postcolor'>

Your turn.<span id='postcolor'>

What can we do when you quote garbage and fiction?

Amongst other things, on July 21, two armed terrorists were killed on their way to an attack against a Gush Katif community.

On the same day, a (another) bomb explodes on the train tracks between Rehovot and Yavheh.

On the same day, a bomb blast occurred against an IDF patrol.

On the same day, soldiers were fired at in Rafiah.

On the same day, an explosive device was detonated against the IDF near Shechem.

On the same day, mortar shells were fired on Israeli positions at the Erez crossing.

Now for July 22, the day you claim a unilateral cease-fire was declared:

Three Bombs Detonate near the Jenin IDF Forces.

Two Soldiers Wounded In Kissufim Shootout.

Mortar & Anti-Aircraft Fire In Northern Gush Katif.

Bomb Attack At Migdalim Junction.

Attack Thwarted Near Tel Katifa.

Shomron Shooting Attack.

Just whose stooge are you, Bernadotte?

By the way, you forgot to mention that in the IDF's bombing attack, the Hamas gang’s Gaza region leader Salah Shehada, was targetted and killed.

Shehada was responsible for hundreds of attacks against Israeli civilians over the past several years. Security officials say that he was directly linked to the March 8 2002, terrorist infiltration into the Gush Katif community of Atzmona that left five Yeshiva students dead. Shehada also planned the attack on an IDF outpost in southern Gaza last August, in which four soldiers were murdered.

Once again, the Palestinians are their own worst enemy.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 18 2003,11:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> What can we do when you quote garbage and fiction?<span id='postcolor'>

I quoted one Israeli attack that resulted in 17 dead and over 160 injured and received a harsh warning from Washington.  You quoted over 14 separate Palestinian attacks with no references that apparently resulted in 2 Palestinian deaths and only 2 Israeli injuries.  You're right.  I certainly can't compete with you when it comes to quoting garbage and fiction.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 18 2003,11:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just whose stooge are you, Bernadotte?<span id='postcolor'>

We are not all stooges.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 18 2003,11:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Shehada also planned the attack on an IDF outpost in southern Gaza last August, in which four soldiers were murdered.<span id='postcolor'>

Why is it that when Palestinians (or peace activists) are killed by the IDF in in the occupied territories it's not murder, but when IDF soldiers die in your "war-zone" you are allowed to call it murder?

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 18 2003,10:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 18 2003,10:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 18 2003,11:o4)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think we'd all appreciate it if you would find out why the IDF was demolishing the home of a Palestinian physician before you come in here claiming that protecting that doctor's home was in some way a direct threat to your soldiers/citizens<span id='postcolor'>

Sniper position on the Rafiah border strip.

A private house turned into a military target by the doctor's own people.<span id='postcolor'>

Where did you read/hear about the doctor allowing his house to be used as a sniper position?<span id='postcolor'>

C'mon Avon!  This is your ideal opportunity to justify crushing an unarmed woman with a bulldozer.  Don't ignore it.  Please show us that this sniper-using-the-doctor's-house story of yours is not just a lot of bullshit.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 18 2003,14:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 18 2003,11:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> What can we do when you quote garbage and fiction?<span id='postcolor'>

I quoted one Israeli attack that resulted in 17 dead and over 160 injured and received a harsh warning from Washington.<span id='postcolor'>

If you'll bother looking at your post, your intention was to show that Israel continued the war when a unilateral ceasefire was supposed to have been in effect. There was no cease fire other than in the worthless words uttered by the Palestinians claiming that one existed. That was the point of my posting two days of current events news titles.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You quoted over 14 separate Palestinian attacks with no references<span id='postcolor'>

Don't be so lazy. Go look up local news archives yourself.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">that apparently resulted in 2 Palestinian deaths and only 2 Israeli injuries.<span id='postcolor'>

Oh I'm sorry. I didn't know that in a war, you have to wait till the score is even until you're allowed to respond.

How silly of us!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You're right.  I certainly can't compete with you when it comes to quoting garbage and fiction.<span id='postcolor'>

You just won the prize again.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 18 2003,11:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just whose stooge are you, Bernadotte?<span id='postcolor'>

We are not all stooges.<span id='postcolor'>

"We"? Just as I thought - three of you.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 18 2003,11:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why is it that when Palestinians (or peace activists)<span id='postcolor'>

This kid was anything but a peace activist. She promoted terror and actively supported the endangerment of Israel's soldiers and citizens and a continuation of violence.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">are killed by the IDF in in the occupied territories<span id='postcolor'>

Judea and Samaria and Aza.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">it's not murder, but when IDF soldiers die in your "war-zone" you are allowed to call it murder?<span id='postcolor'>

Regarding Corrie, I retracted above and said I hope that the IDF comes out with the results of their investigation one way or the other.

With regard to gun/grenade/RPG/bomb wielding animals who are hell-bent on the destruction of my people and have declared this war and all of their previous campaigns to do so, Israel has every right to eliminate them post haste.

Try telling them to stop for a change.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 18 2003,14:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

<span id='postcolor'>

I didn't justify this case.

Furthermore, I don't have to prove anything to you, especially.

I cannot find the info on the sniper use of the house. The JPOST's article here (must be a subscriber) says:

"The bulldozers were part of an IDF tunnel- and mine-clearing operation. The Rafah refugee camp borders Egypt, from which Palestinian terrorists smuggle in weapons and explosives. And according to interim peace accords, Israel has the right to operate in and secure the area."

[DracoPaladore 0]

I've been doing a little look around, and I think I've found some pretty good reasons why some nations do not "like" the U.S. I found this among some websites I was surfing.

1953: U.S. overthrows Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran. U.S. installs Shah as dictator.

1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed.

1963: U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.

1963-1975: American military kills 4 million civilians in Southeast Asia.

September 11, 1973: U.S. stages coup in Chile. Democratically elected president Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 5,000 Chileans murdered.

1977: U.S. backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.

1980's: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA gives them $3 billion.

1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras". 30,000 Nicaraguans die.

1982: U.S. provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.

1983: White House secretly gives Iran weapons to help them kill Iraqis.

1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. U.S. invades Panama and removes Noriega. 3,000 Panamanian civilian casualties

1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S.

1991: U.S. enters Iraq. Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait.

1998: Clinton bombs "weapons factory" in Sudan. Factory turns out to be making aspirin.

1991 to present: American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. U.N. estimates 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.

2000-01: U.S. gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in "aid".

[Jinef 2]

Even if she was American, which i gladly appreciate the killing of, you still cannot even think to try and justify that.

Maybe the gear shift got stuck on the bulldozer and it rolled into the house on it's own?

It's another fine example of people going beyond limits to just feed their hatred even further, if that makes sense

I'm suprised the Americans haven't taken to calling the Israelis nasty due to their killing of a citizen of the USA. If this was done anywhere else in the ME there would be uproar and the cruise missiles would be flying.

[killagee 0]

DracoPaladore, you left a few out...

1948 - South Korean Soldiers under US command massacre up to 60,000 peasants on Cheau Island who had created there own government after WWII.

Post WWII - Italy, Japan, Korea, Germany: Since most of the partisans fighting the resistance were communists, after liberation by US forces, The established Nazi/Japanese Collaborators were placed into positions of power as block against any new socialist governments.

1974 - US gives financial and Military support for Indonesia's invasion of East Timor (250000 dead).

We could go on and on...

However maybe this does not belong in this thread. Unfortunately whenvere someone starts an anti-empiracal thread it is usually closed by the moderators. (To avoid flame wars)

[DracoPaladore 0]

I was thinking of putting this in the Iraq thread, but theres too much of a mix to actually focus on Iraq. This also goes into other issues not in the Middle East, but I thought it would be best to put here.