Why americans scare me

[LauryThorn 0]

I personally think if you are carrying a weapon, a gun or knife,

then you're looking for trouble.

I don't mean that you Wobble are looking for trouble,

it's just that when you are carrying a weapon,

you are more likely to get in trouble.

[Oligo 1]

I don't think carrying a weapon automatically means that you're looking for trouble. I've carried a folding knife in a concealed sheath sometimes and so far the thought has never even crossed my mind to draw it in anger. I have gotten into fist fights when carrying the knife and even lost some of those fights, but never did I even think about pulling the knife.

But if I ever end up in a situation where somebody pulls a knife on me and attacks, at least I have one to draw also.

On the other hand, I doubt that all the people have the kind of self-restraint I have, so carrying a knife generally might mean you're looking to use it (hard to say). But since we cannot ban knives (it would be ridiculous), I for one will not be outgunned in an extreme situation I will probably never face.

[Supah 0]

Laury .... that avatar of woble isnt a recent pic (joke) I dont see anything wrong with making a giant air gun that fires coke cans, as long as our wobble doesnt rob banks with it (keep away from beer cans ..... THAT would be a waste of good beer) And for owning a fire arm ..... I used to think that it wasnt necesary till i met my father in law who hunts (and is a cop) he has a rifle to hunt with and is very carefull. He keeps the gun in a giant safe so noone besides him has acces to it. If Id own firearms and have children around id WANT sa giant safe which only me (and mb my wife) knew the code. only proven responsible people should have firearms. It is a legitemate hobby but it requires allot more common sense as the tools of the hobby are meant as a killing device. Then again once swords were killing devices too but with the recent "Gothic" craze allot of ppl are buying broadswords which are only sold unsharp. How ever any one with a powertool can sharpen them to a degree that is much sharper then when these things were weapons. I have never seen anyone keeping a sword under lock and key. Reading back i guess im not making much sence ........ GOOD

[USSoldier11B 0]

Thanks Wobble for the plans. This will be our summer project. We'll take it out to the Pawnee National Grasslands here in Colorado where there is no one for about 60 miles.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote  

My roomate and I build a pretty good potato cannon

Oh man, get a life.

<span id='postcolor'>

I resent that.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Finland has a quite similar system, and I think it's

good.

In bigger cities it's almost impossible to get a gun license.<span id='postcolor'>

Fascist crap. It's starting to infect our country. All most impossible to get a concealed carry in a U.S. city.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wonder if she thinks the same way as USSoldier11b "True happeness is a belt fed weapon."  <span id='postcolor'>

LOL!

I don't really want to get into a gun control flame, but what good do making all these laws do? Then the only people who will have guns will be the criminals.

All happy and good over there, but here we have a little problem with Constitutional law. See, the founders made sure that the people of the United States had a right to protect themselves. (See 2nd Amendment on the Bill of Rights, U.S. Constitution) So feel good happy Liberal gun legislation kinda tampers with the basic rights of Americans.

Thank You

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is a good system I think. It reduces the access to weapons to serious people. Which in turn equals less guns for the criminals.<span id='postcolor'>

What about the black market?

So yes, as a responsible, voting U.S. citizen I am a little chapped by the rhetoric.

[Wobble 1]

I personally think if you are carrying a weapon, a gun or knife,

then you're looking for trouble.

well the thing is im NOT looking for trouble.. but if for some reason trouble should find me.. then i want to have as big of advantage in the situation as possable..

ya see.. in the event that you are at conflict with someone.. one of you will be more rational and sensable and the other will be extreme and irrational.. me carrying the pistol ensures that if the person I am at conflict with is the irrational one that I will not be at his mercy... because regardless of who is right or wrong, smart or dumb, calm or crazy... the one with the biggest stick (weapon) will be the one who decides the outcome of the confrontation.. be it peacful or violent

and Im not betting my life that the other guy will be as rational and sensable as I am.. so i dont want him to be the one with the biggest stick..

its like:

A: if you wanna beat me up and are bigger than me.. I have a gun... if you have a knife.. I have a gun.. if you have a gun.. you better hope you get yours out faster... etc etc..

is alot better than

B: if you wanna beat me up and are bigger than me.. I am screwed... if you have a knife.. I am screwed.. if you have a gun.. I am VERY screwed... etc etc

granted a gun battle is the LAST thing I ever want to have to deal with.. but if I ever have to.. I damn sure want it to be a gun battle where... I actually HAVE a gun..

[LauryThorn 0]

Well if someone is threatening you with a knife, you can..

A) Give him your money

B) Take out the pistol and make the situation extremely

dangerous

I think that A) is good, especially if you don't have much money.

But this is more philosophic question then..

Personally, I would

C) kick the bully's ass

[Wobble 1]

Well if someone is threatening you with a knife, you can..

A) Give him your money

B) Take out the pistol and make the situation extremely

dangerous

if they have a knife and you have a gun.. the situation is only extreamely dangerous for them..

[LauryThorn 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Then the only people who will have guns will be the criminals.<span id='postcolor'>

And police..

If you have a law that makes carrying a gun illegal,

then the good old policeman can take the criminal's gun

away.

This may be a stupid example, but still..

[LauryThorn 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if they have a knife and you have a gun.. the situation is only extreamely dangerous for them..<span id='postcolor'>

I think that drawing a gun in a street-violent situation

is dangerous for you, too.

How do you know how they are armed?

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

A) Give him your money

B) Take out the pistol and make the situation extremely

dangerous

I think that A) is good, especially if you don't have much money.

But this is more philosophic question then..

Personally, I would

C) kick the bully's ass

<span id='postcolor'>

You must really be a bad ass to opt for C). I have seven years of martial arts, arrest control certified, Army combatives certified, and still would opt to shoot him first.

I learned something called the 1+1 principle. If someone uses a certain level of force on you, you then step up your level if possible. A is foolish because many people who cooperate when they get mugged get stabbed or shot anyway. In the U.S. pulling a knife is considered a deadly force assault. The police will shoot you on the spot. As a citizen you have the right to defend yourself so shooting someone would be warranted. So how can "B" make things worse. Oh no!!! You might kill or injure the criminal scum. Consider the alternative, you are broke, dead, or hurt. I must be tolerant of European thinking though, our political left wing. is more conservative than your political right wing. I hope you respect my views because I am experienced in the field.

[Guest]

The problem is that when it is easy to get a gun then it is very probable that the guy robbing you has one as well. He would be really stupid not to.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As a citizen you have the right to defend yourself so shooting someone would be warranted. So how can "B" make things worse. Oh no!!! You might kill or injure the criminal scum. Consider the alternative, you are broke, dead, or hurt.<span id='postcolor'>

The problem with that logic is the fact that a robber will always see to it that he is better armed then his intended victim:

Victim     Robber

---------------

Fists       Knife

Knife       Gun

Gun        SMG

SMG       Thermonuclear Weapon

... well, you catch my drift.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I must be tolerant of European thinking though, our political left wing. is more conservative than your political right wing. <span id='postcolor'>

Well, you are right about that.

[LauryThorn 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You must really be a bad ass to opt for C). I have seven years of martial arts, arrest control certified, Army combatives certified, and still would opt to shoot him first.<span id='postcolor'>

Well I've handled that kind of situation, although the robber

did not have a knife, but a drug "spike" (What is it called).

I have couple of years of Krav Maga, but I still do it

the soft way if possible.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">in the U.S. pulling a knife is considered a deadly force assault<span id='postcolor'>

In Finland it's not. Threating with a knife is not the same as

stabbing with it. I mean here in Finland.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So how can "B" make things worse. Oh no!!! You might kill or injure the criminal scum.<span id='postcolor'>

Well not only that. I've learned this +1 rule, that is quite different from your 1+1 rule. It's something like this:

1)When you see a guy unarmed, you can be sure that he has at least knife.

2)When you see a guy with a knife, he probably has a gun.

3)And when you are threatened by one guy, there will

be another just behind your back, you just don't see him yet.

And drawing a gun, what if the criminal gets hold of your

gun, and shoots you? Or the other guy in the bush behind

you, draws his MP5 and mows you down?

So you lose your life and your money!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hope you respect my views because I am experienced in the field.<span id='postcolor'>

I respect your view, of course.

When somebody tries to take your money, it does not

make him a half-minded murderer.

There are different kinds of criminals, and I don't think

that you have the right to shoot somebody, just

because he wants your money.

[InRange 1]

Wouldn't it be funny if some country invaded the US:

"What the..."

"What is it, private?"

"That little girl is pointing a .50 calibre at us"

[R. Gerschwarzenge 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LauryThorn @ April 02 2002,13:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but a drug "spike" (What is it called).<span id='postcolor'>

A syringe.

(I'm bored when I point out things like this )

[LauryThorn 0]

Thanks for being bored!

(or should I thank the university of Helsinki?)

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ April 02 2002,05:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Joe Porta @ April 02 2002,03:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Shouldint she be playing with a Dolls house or something    <span id='postcolor'>

Avon at younger years. <span id='postcolor'>

My parents had a tough time finding a baby sitter for me.

[Konyak-2 0]

Wobbles coke cans reminded me of a coke can incident. A friend of mine used to fly a Cessna for our local parachute club. It was a piece of crap plane, with the right side door removed. Each time he'd drop the parachuters, he'd tip the plane to the right after they drop, just to see them go better. One time he was dropping them off over our capital, and one of the parachuters had brought along a large can of Coke. The 0.5l one. Apparently he never got around to drinking it, so it was unopened under the pilots seat when they jumped at 8.000 ft, right over the city center. During his usual tip to the right to see them go, he notices this can rolling elegantly out from under his seat, towards the open door. Moderately alarmed, he quickly tipped the plane to the left, but the can had gained just enough momentum to finish it´s quest for freedom, and the image of it dissapearing over the edge is etched in his memory forever

He said it was the longest descent he´s ever made, wondering what his coke-bomb had done down there.

Fortunately, we never heard anything about it

Konyak

[USSoldier11B 0]

Despite the fact that we disagree, I would like to thank you for a least being open minded and mature about it. Some of your points do make sense, but mostly in very extreme situation. Plus it depends on your shooting skills. Chances are if it were me he would be on the ground before he got his gun out of whereever he is keeping it. If there is someone behind me, well I guess I'm screwed. Muggers generally tend to be desperate people who lack the smarts to figure out how to commit white collar crimes.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Or the other guy in the bush behind

you, draws his MP5 and mows you down?

<span id='postcolor'>There are different kinds of criminals, and I don't think

that you have the right to shoot somebody, just

because he wants your money.

That's alot of effort for the $20 dollars in cash that I carry. I prefer plastic it's safer.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There are different kinds of criminals, and I don't think

that you have the right to shoot somebody, just

because he wants your money.<span id='postcolor'>

I'ts not the fact that he wants my money, it's the fact that he is threatening my well being to get it.

In 1999 statistics for armed felons killed while committing a violent crime in the U.S.: 75% were killed by civilians with legally concealed weapons,all ruled self defense (in the U.S. protecting others from harm also falls under self defense.) Now that's crime prevention.

[R. Gerschwarzenge 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LauryThorn @ April 02 2002,14:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(or should I thank the university of Helsinki?)

<span id='postcolor'>

That's probably the main reason. The university and the lovely sunshine. I can't sit inside anymore. Must... make... an... excuse..... to.... go.... out...

AAARGH!

*runs* (after posting this message of course)

[Guest Scooby]

In Finland you at most often can get beaten which is also very unlike to happen. Because most of the people are smart enough not to carry knifes or firearms robbers dont use them that much either.

You can get firearm permission fairly easily and if you go to join to reservist organization you can get weapons up to semi auto assault rifles to your possession.

We have alot of firearms in Finland but there are very few cases of firearm related deaths because people know how to use them and realize that carrying them for "own safety" actually reduces it. Weapons are treated with respect, not as toys as it seems to be in many cases in US.

Its not that gun laws in US would be bad. It is more so that there are alot of people in US who arent fit to handle firearms.

[LauryThorn 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Some of your points do make sense, but mostly in very extreme situation.<span id='postcolor'>

Life-threatening situation == extreme situation

Or what do you think?

If it's not an extreme situation, then extreme actions like

shooting is not justified.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'ts not the fact that he wants my money, it's the fact that he is threatening my well being to get it.<span id='postcolor'>

Oh well, and we must remember that we live in different

continents, with different environments and different criminals.

My point is that if someone is threatening, not violating your well-being, then giving money or car keys is

wise. If he is really trying to hurt you, then you, of course,

will defend yourself.

But this from my point of view, naturally.

Violence just seems to produce more violence.

[LauryThorn 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">n Finland you most can get beaten which is also very unlike to happen<span id='postcolor'>

Well yes, but there are more and more drug users in Finland nowadays.

Those people often carry at least knives, and they can act extremely violently and use those knives.

But I'm not afraid to walk on the streets, at least yet.

[WKK Gimbal 0]

In one way I don't think the state should dictate what people can own or not. It annoys me that I couldn't get a license for a semi-auto if I wanted to. Hell, if there is a thorough registration and security regulations, I can't see the problem in it. As it is now in my country, almost any firearm is illegal, meaning that all the criminals have weapons, while everyone else don't ... is that a good thing?

I'd love to have an AK100 and go out and "vent" on a shooting range from time to time  

I came to think of something ... if shooting ranges were the only place to buy ammunition, the weapon wouldn't be more dangerous than a hammer, outside the range.

[Major Fubar 0]

Reminds me of the time I made a home made "incinerator unit", inspired by Alien...out of an old gas heater, compressed air bottle, homemade napalm, and some copper tubing...

The stupid things we do when younger. I'm amazed I didnt blow myself up. (That sucker could sure torch a stack of newspapers though! )

Note for the authorities: dismantled and thrown away years ago.