Damaged chopper flight model

[maturin 12]

I just discovered the joys of shooting out the tail rotors on helicopters.

A few hits with a powerful weapon will weaken the rotor and cause the hovering copper to swivel slowly, but if you can make stop entirely the bird becomes uncontrollable, cartwheeling all over the sky.

I shot out my own rotor deliberately to test out the flight model. You can do almost nothing except hold on and spin, unless you bank hard with the direction the torque is taking you, with enables you to dive and build up speed. Once you pass 100 km/h or so, the spinning stops. You have no rudder, but you can bank and otherwise control normally. Slow down and the flatspin starts again. I ended up standing on my tail and doing a pencil dive into the ocean.

I know the chopper flight model gets a lot of criticism, but is this part somewhat realistic?

[Beagle 684]

This and the autorotation part can beat a few so called dedicated Helicopter simulations like the Comanche Series or even EE Apache-Havoc.

The autorotation part of the flight model is the best I've seen so far.

[irR4tiOn4L 10]

This and the autorotation part can beat a few so called dedicated Helicopter simulations like the Comanche Series or even EE Apache-Havoc.

The autorotation part of the flight model is the best I've seen so far.

Yes, but its still no DCS: Black Shark :(

Maybe in future

[Beagle 684]

Yes, but its still no DCS: Black Shark :(

Maybe in future

DCS is just frustrating in many ways. I cant fly faster as 270km/h without rotor Blade dissection.

...and...you can do nothings else than flying a Ka-50 in DCS at this time.

asking for more in ArmA is a little bit oftopic since this is no dedicated study sim of just one or two machines.

[maturin 12]

Knowing nothing at all about helicopters, why should speed prevent a tailrotor-less chopper from spinning?

I was able to land from a high altitude by using the same technique as an auto-rotation landing, and descending evenly at 40 km/h.

[Beagle 684]

Knowing nothing at all about helicopters, why should speed prevent a tailrotor-less chopper from spinning?

It's the "weather cock" effect. At some specific speed the fuselage alone can stabilize the Helicopters yaw axis...its the same effect that lessens the effectivness of yaw capability by anti torque pedal input at speed.

[fantsu 10]

Apache Longbow was great...

:)

[LEEROY_UK 10]

If the donkey stops ,drop the lever or your a dead man.

In English this means if your engine fails lower the collective as fast as you can or youll decay rotor RPM's and droplike a stone !

[max power 21]

Knowing nothing at all about helicopters, why should speed prevent a tailrotor-less chopper from spinning?

I was able to land from a high altitude by using the same technique as an auto-rotation landing, and descending evenly at 40 km/h.

Because the aircraft has a vertical stabilizer, and aerodynamic forces increase with the square of the speed of the object in relation to the medium.

[myshaak 0]

This and the autorotation part can beat a few so called dedicated Helicopter simulations like the Comanche Series or even EE Apache-Havoc.

The autorotation part of the flight model is the best I've seen so far.

I don't know about EE Apache Havoc, but EE Comanche Hokum is pretty good. I still play with the latest community patches and it deserves to be called a simulator (Comanche, on the other hand... :p)

[maturin 12]

Is anyone here able to perform an autorotation without taking damage and destroying the motor? I always lose at least one bar of health.

[max power 21]

I'm no expert on autorotation. I'm usually flying too low and fast to successfully pull one off, but I think that the higher alt the better. It allows you to keep a lot of rotor rpm.

[Beagle 684]

Is anyone here able to perform an autorotation without taking damage and destroying the motor? I always lose at least one bar of health.

Yes this is possible with good timing, but in fact i never tried this with a functional engine ;)

It is much more troublefull to get a Helicopter like the Hind near a repair truck if your tail is shot out.

---------- Post added at 03:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:37 AM ----------

I'm no expert on autorotation. I'm usually flying too low and fast to successfully pull one off, but I think that the higher alt the better. It allows you to keep a lot of rotor rpm.

You can do this as low as 30 meters if needed...the trick is to flare and gain some altitude while not dropping under 150km/h...a high initial speed is the key here. But...all Helo in game do behave different. It's easiest with Mi-8 and UH-1 and hardest with Mi-24 and Ka-52.

[Panthro 10]

wonder how much yaw you would get from a failed tail rotor high speeds.

[-Shifty- 10]

How do you do an autorotation in ArmA 2? O_o

Also, it's always tough when flying a chopper to pick speed and evasive, but if you're hit and your engine goes you're screwed, or slow and more of a target, but you don't lose a 25k bird.

I <3 the helicopters in ArmA2, oh and it's too easy to land safely when you lose your tail rotor.

[Guest]

When you lose the tail rotor you should spin so fast that the tail snaps off and you crash...

I have seen a video fthat happening in real life, scary shit!

[beagle23 16]

ArmA 2 Autorotation

Don't listen to the tutorial about autorotation, it tells you to do the complete opposite of what you want to. Nosing down as soon as you lose engine is, in my experience, the fastest way to achieve NO NO NO NO NONOONON OH GOD 275 KNOTS INTO THE GROUND

As soon as you lose power, flare (nose up) and keep Z held. Flare enough that you aren't going forward any faster than 20 or 30, but not so much you start going backwards. Keeping a nice gradual flare seems to give me the best results for a smooth autorotation.

JUST before you hit the ground, switch to holding Q at the last possible second. Timed right, you'll soften your landing, and you'll already be on the ground so losing rotor speed because you're not holding down anymore isn't an issue. However, even if you can't pull this off, you can still expect a fine, safe landing as long as you do the important flare and slow descent part right.

Once you know you can autorotate safely and reliably pretty much anytime, the only problem is if you're flying over terrain that you can't crashland in. Keep a mindset of "If I lost engine power RIGHT now, how screwed would I be?", which means don't fly over forests, dense cities, horribly slopey terrain, or the ocean, whenever possible. Also try to only go as low as necessary - flying 5 feet off the ground is awesome and believe me, I've spent hours in the editor doing it just for kicks, but if you lose engine at 5 feet you're going to pancake harder than IHOP. Play around with helos in the editor (set up a trigger that removes all your Helo's fuel when you hit a radio command, to simulate the engine failure) and get a feel for what situations you can successfully get yourself out of.

Tail Rotor Failure in ArmA 2

The air passing over the heli at high speed stops it from spinning out of control, just like it'll stop you from using rudder effectively at high speed. If you've got a tail rotor failure it'll get worse as you slow down, so if you can't get control:

1. Go really really high. How high is a "safe margin" is proportional to how much keeping helicopter and yourself alive means to you.

2. Cut your engine. Without the main rotor trying to spin you the hell around, you're free from your dizzy nightmare.

3. Nose down and start gliding to get some speed up. Once you've got enough speed, you can engine up without fear of the main rotor spinning you to the schmithouse.

4. With helo in control, land fast enough that you don't start spinning again, in a nice open area clear of aggresive trees, mean buildings or completely unsociable powerlines.

[Panthro 10]

so if tail rotor fails speeding up can be good in some situations?

(ie linear speed)

[Phantom Mark 0]

You still gonna crash and burn 99% of the time tho, your just delaying the inevitable :D

[beagle23 16]

so if tail rotor fails speeding up can be good in some situations?

(ie linear speed)

If your tail rotor fails and you're at speed, you won't even notice.

If you slow down, you'll suddenly realise you're spinning out of control.

As long as you've got speed, you've got control of the aircraft. If you lose your tail rotor speed is your only way to regain control apart from impressive piloting skills if you need to crash land it then and there.

If you lose tail rotor in the middle of combat, and there's no chance of escaping the danger zone, all you can do is try to minimize the helicopter dancing around, and put her down in a big open area as gently as possible.

[maturin 12]

I have been able to regain control of a hovering tail-rotorless chopper by banking hard into the spin, which shoves the nose down and has a good chance of getting you over the 50 km/h required to stop you from spinning. Only sometimes that makes you spin so fast that the momentum swings you too far and slows you down and then you're on your side and spinning.

[Thirdup 0]

When you lose the tail rotor you should spin so fast that the tail snaps off and you crash...

I have seen a video fthat happening in real life, scary shit!

I think what you have have seen in clips like that may have been catostophic failures to the drive systems extending thru the tail section (ie: a u-joint or bearing failure and the shaft tearing the ass end out of it).

In real life (just as ArmA) tail rotor failure is far more dangerous the lower and slower you are. At a low alt hover, it can often place a bird into a "less than recoverable" spin. But given some height and room to line up, it's recoverable.

You still gonna crash and burn 99% of the time tho, your just delaying the inevitable :D

Actually, in ArmA2 I'll continue doing attack passes if my tail rotor gets shot out of a gunship. It has little or no effect on performance at speed.

As far as landing safely goes, it's simply a matter of coming into the runway at around 60knts low and doing a quick flair as you dump collective. I bet that I land tail rotor failures 99% of the time (I've even managed the repair pad in Domination games before).

Auto rotation is an entirely different story for me. Almost always fatal.

On a side note, several years ago I was pit coordinator for an offshore powerboat race. After the final race, one of many photo and rescue birds (a Jetranger) was coming into the LZ just outside the gates (it was a city helo pad in the grass median between four streets). The crowd was dispersing and traffic (cars and pedestrian) were backed up everywhere.

About 200' out the Jetranger blew something in the tail drive (literally shot out thru the skin) and he lost tail rotor. With cars and people on all sides, he had no place to go but down short of the pad. The pilot saved a lot of people that day (he broke his back in the landing). The impact folded the skids up like a toy. Scary shit, indeed.

[Phantom Mark 0]

I am ex British Army Air Corp (Ie. Helicopters), In my professional experience at least, to land a bird with no tail rotor is a combination of huge luck and circumstance, and huge big balled pilot skilz :D

(thats if it didn't rip the boom and structure apart in the first place)

Autorotation is no big deal, no rear rotor 99% of the time is, it generaly tears the airframe to peices with loads it cannot handle etc......

My comment was merely a generalisation as you cannot accomodate every eventuality eh :D

On a side note, several years ago I was pit coordinator for an offshore powerboat race. After the final race, one of many photo and rescue birds (a Jetranger) was coming into the LZ just outside the gates (it was a city helo pad in the grass median between four streets). The crowd was dispersing and traffic (cars and pedestrian) were backed up everywhere.

About 200' out the Jetranger blew something in the tail drive (literally shot out thru the skin) and he lost tail rotor. With cars and people on all sides, he had no place to go but down short of the pad. The pilot saved a lot of people that day (he broke his back in the landing). The impact folded the skids up like a toy. Scary shit, indeed.

Nice to know of a happy ending for sure !! :)

Edited February 3, 2010 by Phantom Mark

[Thirdup 0]

I am ex British Army Air Corp (Ie. Helicopters), and believe me, to land a bird with no tail rotor is a combination of huge luck and circumstance, and huge big balled pilot skilz :D

Oh, I agree 100%. But it does happen.

Nice little example of a controlled landing after tail rotor failure

z3oVw6_0MEU

[Phantom Mark 0]

If your trying to prove a point your trying with the wrong person, the rear rotor is clearly still attached, thus auto rotation techniques can be applied, Im talking about LOSING THE REAR rotor :D