Logitech G940 Force Feedback: Out of the Box and into ArmA2 - AAR

[Thirdup 0]

Pulled onto my street after work just in time to see the UPS truck turning

in from the other end. Perfect timing.

The box was much smaller than I expected (my old CH-FFX and Pro Throttle

from years back arrived in a container large enough to ship an entire

computer system).

Everything was neatly packed (small ps, pedals, throttle and

stick each in a separate cardboard holder).

The pedals are most impressive. Larger than CH gear but smaller than my old

TM Elites (and *much* lighter than the Elites). They have a very sturdy

feel to them. The rubber footing locked them down to my hardwood floor like

they were bolted (which I actually had to do with my old Elites). They have

some aggressive-looking little carpet hooks that retract and would obviously

hold them well in place if needed. Rudder travel is extremely smooth with a

easy-to-reach tension knob in the center (even maxed, they don't require

near as much force as the Elites did). Toe brake travel is nice and deep.

Gotta give the pedals a 10/10 right off the bat.

Next came the throttle. About the same footprint as my Saitek X45 throttle,

it also has a radial travel (unlike CH's straight forward/back movement).

Ample controls on the thumb side are all within reach. The grip (an A-10

replica) is not as comfortable as the Saitek. It's a bit squared/box-like.

It splits into two for multi-engine/prop/throttle configurations. The eight

buttons on the front of the base have tri-colored LEDs

(red/amber/green/off). There is a sheet of printable labels that can be

inserted under the clear caps. I'm going to give the throttle a 7/10 until

I figure out how to get the LEDs functioning with a mod that I've located.

The stick is really sweet. My old CHFFX was a monster (both size and

weight). The G940 is much smaller (again about the same footprint as the

Saitek X45 stick). The grip is is narrow and not as tall as the CHFFX

(which was a bit too tall for my hand). All the buttons are within tight

reach. The upper hat is a mini-mouse and appears to be very sensitive.

There are three trim wheels at the front of the base. The stick itself gets

a 10/10.

I had already installed the latest software from Logitech, so it was just a

matter of plugging everything in. Rudders and throttle cables simply plug

into the back of the stick. Power supply feeds the FF motors. USB to the

PC powers the LEDs on the throttle. The controls all appeared under Windows7

64 without issue (shown as three separate controllers). Calibration was a

breeze. Force effects can be adjusted to taste (or disabled). Each button

provides a force sample (tug, roll, shake, vibrate, etc). The motors are

much quieter than the circa 90's CH-FFX of the MSFFB. So far the force

effects themselves get a 8/10 (and that may improve as I learn more about

dialing it all in).

The Logitech software allows you to program everything to your heart's

desire. You can save each profile, associate it with a game, and launch a

selected game from within the Logitech program.

I fired up ArmA2 and went to options. The G940 was present three times

(stick/throttle/rudder). I cleared all the default settings in

options>controls and plugged in my own. Started the mission editor with an

A-10 and away I went. Much to my surprise, ArmA2 does in fact support the

basic force feedback flight effects (although any effect from weapons firing

appears to be absent, I'll have to look into that). Control is fluid and

*very* precise (I've never flown with a stick this precise, actually). I

can't wait to get some flight time logged with it.

At first glance I'm giving it a 8.75/10 overall. I've missed force feedback

for far too long....

[Amuro 10]

I'm looking for a new froce feedback stick to replace my old trusty MSFF2. But I'm more interested in the Saitek X65F Pro Flight System, however, as I want to keep using my CH pedals.

[Thirdup 0]

I'm looking for a new froce feedback stick to replace my old trusty MSFF2. But I'm more interested in the Saitek X65F Pro Flight System, however, as I want to keep using my CH pedals.

The Saitek X65F isn't force feedback, it's "force sensing". It doesn't provide any "feedback". It's a stationary stick that detects forced asserted upon it. Not saying that's a bad thing (but certainly different from the traditional joystick concept).The X65F stick has no movement nor moving parts. I'd bet money on the Saitek throttle being more comfortable than the Logitech.

It is a bit of a shame that Logitech has no plans to sell the components separately (they only work as a system). The Logitech pedals are a big plus, though.

Spent the night up doing A-10 runs online. I'm still very impressed with the G940. Very precise rig.

[Amuro 10]

It's sort of like the FSSB mod for the Cougar, right? It's just the thing I want then.

[node_runner 0]

Thirdup, are you still using your G940? I've had mine for a few months and I like it, but I have a problem with the throttle in A2. No matter what I do, I can't seem to get the the center area of the throttle to be "wider" if you know what I mean. When flying pretty much anything, but especially a helo, it is very difficult to hover because the neutral/center position of the collective is very unforgiving. If I barely even touch the throttle with my hand I'll start climbing/descending.

[Thirdup 0]

Yep, flying with it every night. Still very happy with it.

Are you running ArmA2 controls in normal or in analog modes?

It sounds to me like you want to adjust the sensitivity of the throttle. There are numerous things you could try.

In ArmA2 goto Controls>Controllers>highlight the G940 Throttle>click Customize>try adjusting the sensitivity there.

Another solution might be to adjust the actual deadband on the throttle, but I'm not certain that would resolve you issue at mid-point. I'm not even sure that Windows Game Controllers allows for that any more. And I don't recall seeing it in the Logitec Profiler settings.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Thirdup

[node_runner 0]

Can you do a controlled hover with your throttle?

Here is my test set up:

Throttle is bound to the "Analogue" version of Thrust/Break for air controls. This is the X-axis of the throttle and I have it so Thrust is pushing the throttle away from me, and Break is pulling the throttle toward me.

To make the description easy, I'll consider pushing the throttle all the way forward (away from me) as 100% throttle. Pulling it all the way toward me 0% throttle.

I put a Littlebird on Utes on the air field to just do some hovering tests. I'm only using the throttle controls, nothing else.

Here are the results of three different sensitivity levels by going into the A2 options menu and putting the Throttle X-axis all the way down, in the middle, and all the way up:

Middle sensitivity:

I have to push the throttle to about 60% before I can even get off the ground. I cannot do a controlled hover. Pushing to about 60% throttle I start climbing about 1m/sec, going to about 59% throttle, I start descending about 1m/sec. I can't find a middle ground between the two.

Low sensitivity:

I only have to push the throttle to about 20% to start climbing. But 19% throttle starts descending. I can't find a middle ground to do a controlled hover.

High sensitivity:

I have to push the throttle to about 80% to start climbing. But once again, 79% starts descending and I can't find a middle ground no matter how gently I nudge the throttle.

Ideally, I need to have about a 5%-10% "deadzone" in the middle of the throttle that neither climbs nor descends. But I don't seem to have one at all. What percent area of the throttle would you say your "deadzone" is where you can maintain a hover Thirdup?

I'm using the 1.05 version of ArmA2, and the most recent Logitech drivers for my G940. Not sure what else to try.

Additional Note:

My throttle seems to work fine in other games. I've used it in DCS: Blackshark, MS FSX, Rise of Flight, and Hawx without any problems. It only seems to be an issue with ArmA.

---------- Post added at 06:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:51 PM ----------

Problem fixed! Apparently I do NOT want to be using the "Analogue" version of Thrust/Break. Once I switched it to using the non-Analogue version, it started working exactly how it should. Excellent!

Edited April 12, 2010 by node_runner
update

[Thirdup 0]

I'll test a few things this afternoon and tonight.

I'm not using analog. When it first came out I wasn't really happy with it (I've heard that it was "sort of" fixed in 1.05, but I've not even tried it since then).

I'll tinker with it a bit and see. Keeping in mind that flight models do have some variance, I don't spend much time flying the LOACH. I'm mostly in the Apache these days but yes, I can hold a sustained hover at just about any alt.

---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 PM ----------

Ah, good to see you sorted it out. Yeah, I've avoided the analog in ArmA2 (although I'd love to use it if it worked properly).

[hellfire257 3]

What about in Flight Sims?

[RogueBlade 0]

I'd love to see a G940 vs Saitek X65F faceoff

X65F: http://www.lockonfiles.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=490&mode=&order=0&thold=0

[Thirdup 0]

What about in Flight Sims?

I came to gaming from flight sims. Plus I've used force feedback rigs before. I still give the G940 very high scores with regards to flight sims. I currently fly IL-2, Blackshark, FSX, and of course in ArmA2. It's a nice HOTAS rig even given the price (when you factor in the FFX and the pedals). My only minor complaint is the lack of detents in the rotories.

I'd love to see a G940 vs Saitek X65F faceoff

I'd like to try out the X-65. To be clear, it's not a "force feedback" rig but rather "force sensing" (meaning it has no moving parts and measures the forces asseted onto it). It would take some getting used to but I imagine it's very well suited for modern aviation sims. I also like Saitek throttles. But metal sticks seem to cause me a bit more fatigue after several hours (I flew with a TM Cougar for a few weeks).

TM's Warthog will be out soon. If you're shopping for a new HOTAS, you may want to wait on the reviews for that bad-boy. Of course, it will be metal, expensive (ie: Cougar), and like the Saitek it won't include rudder pedals nor be force feedback. http://www.thrustmaster.com/

---------- Post added at 06:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 PM ----------

btw: here's an interesting little overview of some of the current HOTAS rigs. It deals mostly with the software side.

http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_094a.html

[Gruman 123]

Hey Thirdup,

Are you still happy with your G940? I own the same Joystick and its nice for flying Aircrafts, but when it comes to flying Helicopters its much more difficult.

I believe the missing center spring is the main problem of this joystick... its so hard to hover on the spot without it...

Did you find a good setting for Force Feedbacks, Sensitivity (ingame and in Logitech Profiler)? Are you using the "Center Spring Simulator" from the Profiler (what rate?)?

Im thinking about lowering the Joystick of about 4 cm into my desk, just to make the whole thing a lot more relaxing. The base of the joystick and the throttle are freaking high...

Thanks :)

Best regards

[node_runner 0]

I have both the G940 and the Saitek X-65F.

Hovering is not difficult for me using the G940. It still has a fairly stiff center position as long as the forces are turned all the way up.

If any of you are thinking about the X-65F, I would not recommend it if you are primarily going to use it for flying rotor-wings in ArmA or other sims like Blackshark. The X-65F is a fantastic stick for fighter jets, but it has a very stiff throttle which you wouldn't want to use as a collective for flying a helo. So if you do go the X-65F route, you will probably opt to use the keyboard or other buttons on the joystick for your collective controls while flying helos in ArmA.

That said, each stick has different strengths and weaknesses. I like using the G940 to fly aircraft where feel is important. I prefer the G940 in Rise of Flight and flying small engine prop planes in FSX like the Piper-J Cub.

The X-65F on the other hand, shines with aircraft that have more sophisticated avionics or aircraft that benefit from a higher degree of precision. I use it for Wings of Prey, DCS: Blackshark, and will use it for DCS: Warthog when that comes out.

If you really enjoy flying helos and you have money to spend, you can buy a nice USB collective stick from www.flightlink.com. I really enjoy using mine in ArmA and DCS: Blackshark. I've been using the Flightlink collective paired with the X-65F in ArmA and that has been working pretty well for me. One thing to keep in mind though, even if you are willing to spend $500 on a collective stick, you'll want to make sure you have some semi-permanent way to bolt it down into some kind of cockpit set up. Otherwise, when you pull up on the collective, you'll end up lifting the whole unit up.

[Gruman 123]

@node_runner

Hovering is not difficult for me using the G940. It still has a fairly stiff center position as long as the forces are turned all the way up.

Any recommended settings for the ForceFeedback and the Center spring? Do you mean 100% or 200% with all the way up...

Thanks

[bangtail 0]

Had them both, still have the X-65, ditched the logitech.

The only reason I would not recommend the X-65 is if you fly props (Sturmovik etc). The lack of a moving stick feels alien to me in that respect (but that's a personal preference).

I completely disagree with Node Runner regarding the X-65 and helos, it's excellent for Black Shark (and the helos in ArmA 2), I've logged hundreds of hours with it.

The throttle loosens up with use and the resistance can also be adjusted.

Similarly, I'll disagree on bolting down the X-65F, there is no reason you should be using that much force on a joystick that is force sensitive.

Edited December 9, 2010 by BangTail