ArmA 2 vs Project reality?

[An Fiach 10]

Its all about the mission maker. For example in my missions, i always try to make it all pretty balanced: only giving two HMMVWS wihout respawn, revive script with 2 lives maximum and putting a lot of enemy units (ACM enabled too). That way our squad has to stick together in order to survive but the overall experience is pretty fun because its more infantry based and the lack of assets like armored vehicles, choppers and planes dosent really cares.

Of course this is a COOP scenario for 8 players made for the squad i play in, but what im saying is that with some balance the mission can be great. And seriously, ill always prefer the A2 hit system than the BF2 hitpoint one. IMHO that is way more important that having some fancy effects of supressive fire

Your sig made me laugh, hard

---------- Post added at 04:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------

Just a short post here from me to anfiach:

I agree with much of what you have to say, but you have to accept that the question in first post of this topic was what game/mod would provide the largest most teamwork team vs team orientated online gameplay. And right now that game is PR and not Arma2. But you are absolutly right in that in theory and if we look at the feutures and capabilities of the game engine/editor Arma 2 is better, but right now in reality it is worse.

I would not have a regulary large server team vs team with teamwork online experience with Arma 2 compeared to PR right now. But it is doable and with the right people propabbly can be right now.

And to be really blunt the question was between PR and Arma 2 and you arguments about PR is a mod and thats why it has better teamwork is correct but it is not relevant to the question asked since the question was not BF2 vs Arma2, it was specificly PR vs Arma2. Here is a direct qoute from the first post "Which games offers on avereage more teamwork?"

No hard feelings i mostly agree with what you have posted but i feelt that i needed to point this out.

I also responded to your comments about WWIIOL as that was also a part of your question.

I think if you play on the right servers, you can find what you are looking for right now in ArmA 2 as I've mentioned before but until ACE2 comes out you probably won't find a billboard like PR to tell you which servers that would be. A server showing PR is like a giant arrow that says great team play here where ArmA 2 servers have no such standard currently and you can experience two different things on servers running the same mission.

I think asking which servers on average offer more teamwork would have had me answering PR but I didn't think of it in that manner and a non-moderated PR server could be just as bad as any other server, there just aren't any non-moderated PR servers so they win that contest by default :)

No hard feelings, I had considered your question already answered before the heated debate began. I just viewed certain statements to be flawed and felt compelled to pursue them. I like a good argument so I can't help myself and when someone tells me I'm wrong but refuses to explain how, well...

Cheers

[bangtail 0]

Ignore me if you wish, judging from your previous responses I won't be missing out on any keen insights.

The feeling is mutual :D

No hard feelings, I had considered your question already answered before the heated debate began. I just viewed certain statements to be flawed and felt compelled to pursue them. I like a good argument so I can't help myself and when someone tells me I'm wrong but refuses to explain how, well...

I've justified my statements and by your own admission, you like to start arguments for the sake of them. In this case, concerning a game you seem to know very little about. There are NO A2 servers that deliver anything that even slightly resembles PRM. Again, more assumptions on your part. Will that change? Possibly, but right now it's just not the case. As Sirex1 said, this thread is about the large teamplay experience that PRM provides and that is not currently on offer in A2.

To be clear, if someone designs that kind of mod for A2, it is entirely feasible. Nothing like that ever showed up for A1, so until I actually see it, I'm not that optimistic.

And JFYI, I never told you to shutup. I suggested that we agree to disagree and go our separate ways.

Edited November 9, 2009 by BangTail

[An Fiach 10]

FYI "Until you've actually played PRM, you have no business making the assumptions you have made" = shut up. Don't misrepresent my words either, I don't start arguments, just can't resist them.

You have not justified your statements in the least, you just keep moving the goal posts. Now we have come down to speaking strictly of team play. Well I agreed with Sirex1, you won't find it as easily as on PR servers. However, your claim that you cannot find it at all is simply not accurate. If this is not what you mean, then we have found the core of our disagreement.

Let me just point out that having played PR does not give you a monopoly on the knowledge of what great team play and teamwork is. I have found great pvp team play in ArmA 2 and other games as well. A total of 64 players is not a big deal as that only requires you to organize 32 on your side. Want to put it in perspective, try organizing 200 players with only text chat, 32 quickly seems trivial.

[bangtail 0]

FYI "Until you've actually played PRM, you have no business making the assumptions you have made" = shut up. Don't misrepresent my words either, I don't start arguments, just can't resist them.

No, that would be you putting words in my mouth while simultaneously misinterpreting the english language. What I said was that you don't have much credibility vis a vis PRM because you haven't played it. I never told you to shutup (although, at this point, I wish you would).

And as for "misinterpreting" your words, not even close pal o mine. I quoted you directly. Conversely, you have tried (and failed) to misrepresent something I said by blatantly replacing my words with your own. Maybe you like to debate/argue but you aren't particularly good at it. The first step in preparing for a discussion in this thread would have been to have requisite knowledge and experience of both games. You contend that you don't start arguments, but the fact that you started this one speaks to the contrary.

In my experience large scale PvP (32+ players) A2 is atrocious (this is no fault of A2's). If it had regulation etc, it has the potential for excellence but, at present, I derive the most enjoyment from A2 through small 4-10 player coops. I only play A2 with a small group that I have played with for years. I've had too many negative experiences on the pubs.

Monopoly? WTF are you on about guy. You've never played PRM so how can you comment objectively on it? I don't have a monopoly on anything (except maybe intelligence when I am speaking to you). I DO have extensive experience with both games (as do others in this thread) and subsequently my opinions are actually informed and not just baseless assumptions.

The "argument" stems from that fact that you simply haven't played PR and you are trying to tell me about how A2 compares. How do you know? Simply put, you don't. Show me a 64 player A2 server that compares to PRM (comms, squads, cohesion etc). If you present me with facts to back up your claims, you will get a more positive response. Simply repeating the same assertions does not make them facts.

And I'll say it again. If someone developed a PRM style mod for A2, it most certainly could have the potential to rival PRM. The problem does not lie with A2 itself, rather, it lies with the public community and the lack of a mod/gametype that offers what PRM offers. All you get now is everyone running off in different directions. There is no unit cohesion whatsoever. If you'd actually drop the 10 spot on BF2, you could try PRM and you would quickly understand what I (and others here) are talking about and why PRM is so effective at portraying large scale infantry battles.

Anyway, off to waste 4 hours or so on MW2 :)

/end of

PS : I think this is just crossed wires more than anything else. I would be more amenable to this discussion had you actually played PRM. If that was the case, even if you were to tell me you HATED it, that would be an opinion I could respect.

/Back to MW2 :)

Edited November 10, 2009 by BangTail

[An Fiach 10]

So not only do you misrepresent my words (FYI that quote didn't say what you claimed it said) you have graduated to petty insults. Wonderful. Now, let's see what other milestones you can achieve while being willfully obtuse. I already gave examples of which servers to play on but you ignore it. I need not play PR because I am talking about ArmA 2 and I don't need to play PR to know what good team work is. As I alluded to in my previous post I have in the past organized excellent teamwork on a scale that is not even possible in PR (player limit restrictions) or even ArmA 2 for that matter. I don't need to play to see that in PR it results from strict moderation of servers and restrictive game play, you have pointed this out yourself, several times.

You keep defending PR as if it is under siege here, you are too emotionally attached to it as evidenced by your statement that if someone made a mod/game mode that ArmA 2 could potentially rival PR. Rival? ArmA 2 surpasses PR in every way. The difference is the servers and the players. ArmA 2 is lacking well moderated public servers, this leads to a lack of players (publicly) to fill the team roles. They instead join the private servers where team play is guaranteed.

I pointed out servers before and one could also look into the Devastation missions as well as the Insurgency template that SBSMAC pointed out earlier as they are both modeled after PR style missions. You can check them out or you can continue playing on your private server with a small group of friends while claiming extensive experience playing with the ArmA 2 community. Your choice.

[InFireBaptize 0]

they're both good games, i played both but personally i think arma2 is far more superior than PR but don't forget the PR made this game last so long and without PR the game would have been dead long time ago. I think PR wins in the sound department, GUI.

I admire PR and tip my hat for them for making such an arcade game to what it is right now.

[bangtail 0]

they're both good games, i played both but personally i think arma2 is far more superior than PR but don't forget the PR made this game last so long and without PR the game would have been dead long time ago. I think PR wins in the sound department, GUI.

I admire PR and tip my hat for them for making such an arcade game to what it is right now.

Couldn't agree more, A2 has far more to offer but then it's a full game and not a mod.

PR is equally one of the best free mods around and it's amazing what Black Sand have managed to do with the BF2 engine.

I play both :)

/nuff said

Edited November 10, 2009 by BangTail

[Sirex1 10]

Here's some gameplay videos about PR so people can get a perspective if they haven't heard or played PR. Here they play what is called insurgecny mode where the US/NATO/Brittish/Russian searches for weapon caches across the map and the ins defend, also please remeber that these are only two squads out of 8 on that team.

They also use a thrid party program called mumble that allows them to talk to anyone who is near them up to 70 meters, it allows local communication and teamwork between squads or squads and APC crews.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvoZAygLoLA

If you want more videos searche for "project reality gameplay mumble"

Also ontopic my opinoun is still that in capabilities Arma 2 wins by a wide margin, but if you want to match PR teamwork Team vs Team gameplay you have to work alittle and find the right people and servers and also try to contribute youself towards a better experince, get involved. Which i will do as soon as my university studies lighten up.