PC Discussion Thread II - All PC related discussion goes here.

[anguis 4]

I had both the 7970 and then traded it in for the 680 and wrote up my experience somewhere in the General thread "7970" maybe? Overall I far prefer the 680 (which I hear the 670 is like 95% equivalent) for Arma 2. Maybe the drivers have changed things but I just find the experience smoother with the lower maintenance Nvidia card.

Here's his writeup: froggyluv on 7970 vs. 680

[chrisb 196]

Well I just finished setting up my new 27†monitor, looks a treat, even though my 22†was nice.

I’m happy, so I am..;):)

[Shadow NX 1]

I had both the 7970 and then traded it in for the 680 and wrote up my experience somewhere in the General thread "7970" maybe? Overall I far prefer the 680 (which I hear the 670 is like 95% equivalent) for Arma 2. Maybe the drivers have changed things but I just find the experience smoother with the lower maintenance Nvidia card.

I already regret building the new gaming rig, the last days most likely causing a few extra grey hairs i think :(

The thing is the discussion back then was 1Q 2012 and since then a lot happened driver wise, looking at newer benches the new drivers gave the 79XX a impressive boost.

I dont have the slightest doubt that the GTX680 is a excellent card yet one also needs to consider that there is like 100-150Eur difference between the 7970s and the GTX680 cards especially when you want to get one with a good custom cooler and more than 2GB vram.

Id gladly switch to a Nvidia this time but as it happened every time so far there ist one that is in the Price Power ratio that is interesting for me, i looked at lots of GTX670s because as you said i was hoping it felt a little more smooth but there arent many 4GB models and then again these have the price of the good bit faster 7970s that are equal to the lot pricier GTX680... i feel like in a loop as this happens each time i wanna upgrade.

Well, well, till monday i still have time to consider.

Froggyluv, as a ex 7970 owner can you describe what causes the better feel the GTX680 gives?

On my HD6950 as on my HD4870 before i always got microstutters in scripted camera scenes like the takistan benchmark ( E8? ), so far i though that is more of a typical ArmA engine thing or is this a AMD thing and absent on a GTX?

Also did you have a older AMD before the 7970 and can compare the filtering quality? Due to mistake in the code the older series had a strong flickering and in ArmA2 i get grainy looking gras when i dont have the AF on max settings, when i tested a GTX460 this wasnt there, yet it also showed lop popups, possibly even worse tha my 6950.

How would you consider the filtering on the 7970? I mean in case you had a older AMD before you can maybe give me a idea of it being improved or not.

I know the flickering is fixed and read about the filtering being close or similar to the Nvidias now, yet i rather take first hand info from you on this.

Also i searched Youtube up and down for comparable HD videos but you wont find a AMD and Nvidia video that is even halfway compareable it seems.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Shadow NX

[froggyluv 2130]

Hi Shadow, hmm it's been a while so it's really hard to say. I did have the 4870 as well before switching to the Nvidia 460 and then to 7970 before exchanging for my current 680. I do remember a sort of gritty, grainy feel to the AMD as well as the white dot on foliage issue (which is fixable) as compared to the 680. Someone else wrote on here recently that they felt the 7970 had a little more "powered" feeling with complex Arma 2 imagery and I tend to agree with that but as a total package -just prefer the nvidia.

My experience with 7970 was just a feeling of constant headaches as far as drivers and catalyst with one or the other always seemingly bugging out and it just gave me high blood pressure. To be fair, this was early 7970 so drivers etc may be far better now but that was my experience at the time. Cleaning remnants of old drivers etc.. just seemed ongoing and not fun and the noise and heat issue another minus. the 680 was just streamlined from the start, quiet, powerful and just felt a joy to work with. Exchanging, upgrading drivers was literally no problem and basically takes care of itself.

Im not by any means claiming the 7970 is a bad card or doesn't compete well with the 680 (not aware of current prices either), I just really prefer the 680 and will probably stay with Nvidia from here on out barring a major change in AMD's motus operandi.

[kualus 1]

The feeling that you've had that Nvidia cards feel smoother is because Nvidia's cards+drivers have less microstutter and deliver more consistent FPS. AMD has had issues with microstutter in the past, but starting with the 12.11 beta drivers, they really over-optimized for sheer FPS over consistent FPS, in order to market their superiority over Nvidia. TechReport broke the news in December: http://techreport.com/review/23981/radeon-hd-7950-vs-geforce-gtx-660-ti-revisited AMD has promised to fix the issue.

[Shadow NX 1]

After banging my head on the desk for a while and searching for a decent GTX670 with more than 2GB ( looked at my modded Skyrim and i regulary hit the 2GB limit of my card with it already in 1680x1050 ) and reading lots and lots about this issue and the recent improvements in these regards i came to the conclusion to get the HD7970, see it in action and then decide to keep it or not, main factor was the catalyst 13.2 and the huge improvement in the frametimes.

http://techreport.com/review/24218/a-driver-update-to-reduce-radeon-frame-times

The stutters on camera movement itself seem indeed a ArmA engine thing, checked some GTX680 videos of the Benchmarks from A2 and the stuttering camera is there aswell even on high fps... odd.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Shadow NX

[kualus 1]

Just to inform you, the article says those improvements in frame times were targeted at specific games, improving the memory management to improve frame times without targeting specific games has been promised for the future.

[chrisb 196]

The stutters on camera movement itself seem indeed a ArmA engine thing, checked some GTX680 videos of the Benchmarks from A2 and the stuttering camera is there aswell even on high fps... odd.

That 680 test is really bad, and 17fps:butbut:, what’s going on there!

[tonygrunt 10]

That 680 test is really bad, and 17fps:butbut:, what’s going on there!

I have no such problems with my GTX680, maybe he maxed out his view distance to 10K.

[Shadow NX 1]

Pretty old CPU with 2,8Ghz so its definatly not the GTX680 causing the low FPS and stutter.

@Kualus

Just when i though i made a conclusion all is at 0 again.

Aynway i stick with the HD7970, if it isnt what i hope it is it goes back and i go for a 670.

[froggyluv 2130]

If I had to do it again I would have gotten the 670 3gb (rather than the 680 2gb) and then SLI'ed another one.

[kualus 1]

If I had to do it again I would have gotten the 670 3gb (rather than the 680 2gb) and then SLI'ed another one.

670 3GB? As far as I know, the 670 either has 2 GB RAM or 4 GB RAM. There are 3 GB RAM 660 Ti cards out there.

[Shadow NX 1]

I was about getting a GTX670 4gb from Asus as it was the only one i found with 4GB and a custom cooler and said of less fps but if it runs smoother then ok, then i read a review and dues to the 4gb and lower memory timings it seems to be 3-5 fps slower than a standard 670...

I saw a Gigabyte 670 4GB before but now the store where i ordered doesnt list it anymore plus i couldnt find any review.

I used AMDs for years now and if the 7970 isnt significant worse in regards to stutten than my 6950 now then i can live with it, in the end it costs 380Eur compared to the price of a 4gb 680...

[Ryan 10]

Will this computer be able to run Arma 3 on atleast Medium Settings? And is it worth buying; Also hoping I can upgrade the GPU down the road on it.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229411

[Bee8190 10]

Will this computer be able to run Arma 3 on atleast Medium Settings? And is it worth buying; Also hoping I can upgrade the GPU down the road on it.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229411

The CPU is on better side of things but the GPU is rather low end. Not sure if possible but if is, I'd suggest to replace the GPU for at least HD 7850 2Gb or better. (HD 7870, HD 7950). I'd also recommend an SSD of at least 128Gb.

If the PC will be used mainly for gaming I'd strongly suggest building your own. If not confident to build one, I'm sure you could get plenty of help on these forums picking up the correct parts with best bang for buck in mind and with that said, any PC shop would assembly the parts for the price, depending on region, about $50 or so.

EDIT - There is very minor difference between the i7 3770K and i5 3570K but the price for the i7 is significantly higher. I'd personally go for the i5 3570K or straight up to the i7 3820K. Nothing in between.

[kualus 1]

I'd personally go for the i5 3570K or straight up to the i7 3820K. Nothing in between.

There is no such thing as the i7-3820K, there is just the i7-3820. And going for the 3820 would require a more expensive X79 chipset motherboard.

[Iulik 10]

Will this computer be able to run Arma 3 on atleast Medium Settings? And is it worth buying; Also hoping I can upgrade the GPU down the road on it.

no, that thing is totally unbalanced, an unlocked processor and a b75 motherboard that does not allow overclocking, and also a graphic card that is totally bad :) if you want a decent pc you should build it yourself, it is not hard at all, an i5 and a 7950 will be much better, if you want, i can build you a config for your money :)

[Ryan 10]

no, that thing is totally unbalanced, an unlocked processor and a b75 motherboard that does not allow overclocking, and also a graphic card that is totally bad :) if you want a decent pc you should build it yourself, it is not hard at all, an i5 and a 7950 will be much better, if you want, i can build you a config for your money :)

That would be awesome lol, didn't know a computer store would put my PC together, although I could give it a try, I'm just not familiar with what GPU goes with what motherboard or CPU and sh*t, although i'd like to learn.

---------- Post added at 21:34 ---------- Previous post was at 21:30 ----------

The CPU is on better side of things but the GPU is rather low end. Not sure if possible but if is, I'd suggest to replace the GPU for at least HD 7850 2Gb or better. (HD 7870, HD 7950). I'd also recommend an SSD of at least 128Gb.

If the PC will be used mainly for gaming I'd strongly suggest building your own. If not confident to build one, I'm sure you could get plenty of help on these forums picking up the correct parts with best bang for buck in mind and with that said, any PC shop would assembly the parts for the price, depending on region, about $50 or so.

EDIT - There is very minor difference between the i7 3770K and i5 3570K but the price for the i7 is significantly higher. I'd personally go for the i5 3570K or straight up to the i7 3820K. Nothing in between.

Sorry for double post, but in return, I found this sounds just like what you said, http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229381

[Iulik 10]

That would be awesome lol, didn't know a computer store would put my PC together, although I could give it a try, I'm just not familiar with what GPU goes with what motherboard or CPU and sh*t, although i'd like to learn.

---------- Post added at 21:34 ---------- Previous post was at 21:30 ----------

Sorry for double post, but in return, I found this sounds just like what you said, http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229381

its the same thing over here, you have a processor that you can overclock and a cheap mainboard that does not allow overclocking, also the ram is not that great. you want a pc that will last, here you go

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147053 - case

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139051 - Power Supply

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128545 - Motherboard

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116504 - Processor

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099 - Cooler for the processor

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148840 - HDD

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131468 - Videocard ( you can throw anything at this )

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231609 - Ram

a bit over your budget, but you can overclock this to 4.5ghz no worries :) you get a decent motherboard, a decent power supply

p.s

this is a step by step on how to build your pc, it is really easy and when you will get into it you will never buy a built pc eva :D

[Bee8190 10]

I'd approve of the build & parts suggested above, nice and balanced build that will play any title pretty well.

If anything and rather because of personal preference though - I wouldn't touch seagate drives, ever. (nor WD green line HDD's for that matter)

I'd recommend this instead http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236339

(speeds nearly same as WD caviar black series yet cheaper but more reliable over green series for just little extra)

Than powersupply, IMO worth the $20 extra again but not absolutely necessary - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139012

Other alternatives - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194094

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005

[Ryan 10]

its the same thing over here, you have a processor that you can overclock and a cheap mainboard that does not allow overclocking, also the ram is not that great. you want a pc that will last, here you go

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147053 - case

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139051 - Power Supply

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128545 - Motherboard

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116504 - Processor

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099 - Cooler for the processor

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148840 - HDD

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131468 - Videocard ( you can throw anything at this )

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231609 - Ram

a bit over your budget, but you can overclock this to 4.5ghz no worries :) you get a decent motherboard, a decent power supply

p.s

this is a step by step on how to build your pc, it is really easy and when you will get into it you will never buy a built pc eva :D

Thanks man, definitely going to be ordering this tonight. :) CHEERS!

[Iulik 10]

You are welcome, hope everything will go smoothly, i believe that installing windows is no trouble

[nikiforos 450]

Does anyone know how I can underclock my GPU Core clock?

I have the GTX 570 Asus and many games that I play crash to desktop. The working solution for me is to underclock the GPU Core clock from 742 mhz to 725 mhz. I use the MSI Afterburner for that reason and it works mostly ok.

Sometimes though the Core Clock will automatically change to 742 mhz(default settings) during gameplay and crashes again. So I wonder how I can make it possible to permamently change the Core Clock to 725 mhz to avoid all these issues.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Does anyone know how I can underclock my GPU Core clock?

I have the GTX 570 Asus and many games that I play crash to desktop. The working solution for me is to underclock the GPU Core clock from 742 mhz to 725 mhz. I use the MSI Afterburner for that reason and it works mostly ok.

Sometimes though the Core Clock will automatically change to 742 mhz(default settings) during gameplay and crashes again. So I wonder how I can make it possible to permamently change the Core Clock to 725 mhz to avoid all these issues.

Is it caused by overheating? Cant you just clean it?

[nikiforos 450]

No it's not of question of dusty card or overheating. This is a common problem for this specific model.

I can play many games without issues but not Arma 3. So please if someone can tell me how to underclock permanently.