“liberation 1941-1945�

[Simon C 0]

Tbh, the BF109 discussion is not related to the thread topic. Back on topic please people.

On topic, I must say that those SU-100s look superb. Looks like a perfect tank destroyer, that or an impromptu breaching tool. :D

[Sky999 10]

Isn't the name of the mod slightly misleading?

When we say 'liberation' we think of the US/Britain/Canada. It's debatable whether the Russians actually liberated europe because essentially they were conquering eastern europe under the guise of liberation. I'm not here to do a history lesson I'm just saying when I saw liberation I assumed the western allies or both east and west.

[das attorney 857]

I think it refers to liberating the regions of Russia that the Wehrmacht overran.

US/Canada/UK were not occupied by the Nazis, and therefore could not be liberated. I'm from the UK, and the word 'liberation' makes me think of the French and Italians, not UK/US/Canada. The word for UK/US/Canada would be liberators. :)

The title of the mod seems fine to me.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Das Attorney

[Sky999 10]

I think it refers to liberating the regions of Russia that the Wehrmacht overran.

US/Canada/UK were not occupied by the Nazis, and therefore could not be liberated. I'm from the UK, and the word 'liberation' makes me think of the French and Italians, not UK/US/Canada. The word for UK/US/Canada would be liberators. :)

The title of the mod seems fine to me.

Ahh but they are the ones who caused the 'liberation' :)

I see your point though, hope this mod goes well

[Wass 1]

I think it refers to liberating the regions of Russia that the Wehrmacht overran.

it's true. that why units in mod only from german and soviet army's

[WelshManDan 10]

I hope that if you make campaigns you dont make it one sided, as dont forget Soviet Casualties were Twice as much as the Germans on the Eastern front and the Russians were no Beauty Queens themselves, maybe just as bad as the SS.

Cant wait to ride (well maybe get stuck) through the mud in a King Tiger.

[lecholas 2]

Well, you say you will have Staszów in your map. That's not the 'regions of Russia that the Wehrmacht overran'. ;)

[Wass 1]

I hope that if you make campaigns you dont make it one sided, as dont forget Soviet Casualties were Twice as much as the Germans on the Eastern front and the Russians were no Beauty Queens themselves, maybe just as bad as the SS.

Cant wait to ride (well maybe get stuck) through the mud in a King Tiger.

no way.

only soviet campaign.

if you dont like this - make your own mod :D

[JdB 151]

no way.

only soviet campaign.

if you dont like this - make your own mod :D

I think he meant "one-sided" as showing all Germans as murderous Huns and all Russians as innocent liberating angels being a one-sided campaign. Not that Lib should do a campaign for both sides.

You shouldn't have too much problems getting permission from [FF] Studios, as they are usually very relaxed about giving permission, but it can take longer to get a reply from them than from others.

Edited December 1, 2009 by JdB

[petrtlach 1375]

Wass:

Only germans and soviet units? it's no good. At germans side fight next units: Hungary, Slovakia, Finland,Italia, Romania, Croatia and volunteers from Vichyist France, Spain, Denmark, Norway , Switzerland, Belgium, Netherlands, Lithuania, Georgia, Estonia and ROA. And soviet side: France, Poland Czechoslovakia (czechoslovakian units liberate in autumn 1943 centrum Kiev, During battle for Charkov in March 1943 as only czechoslovakian battalion not get in investment and captivity). At soviert side fight from year 1944 too Romania and Bulgaria. My granddad fight from springtime 1943 in czechoslovakian troops in USSR, grandmother too.

Edited December 2, 2009 by petrtlach

[vilas 473]

:)

more screens, they are pleasing us :)

more :) more :)

[RUDOLF 9]

Isn't the name of the mod slightly misleading?

When we say 'liberation' we think of the US/Britain/Canada. It's debatable whether the Russians actually liberated europe because essentially they were conquering eastern europe under the guise of liberation. I'm not here to do a history lesson I'm just saying when I saw liberation I assumed the western allies or both east and west.

Not like you, my first thought, of course, is the liberation of Russia. If the Russian liberated Europe or not, we couldn't get any results by disccusion here anyway. And one thing is sure that Russian defeated the major forces of Nazi Germany.

[LugNut 10]

I don't care if they call it "Ballerina Invasion" as long as I get to play it. :D

[Ingeneer 10]

I've imported the BF 109's from A1, just waiting F&F studio's permission to release it, Placebo gave me permission to release the addon in 1 weeks time from today if they dont get back to me :D

Thx to Peter AKA Faust we recieve the permission for PzIII VERY SOON.

they are active yet they dont reply to 2-3 emails a day for 3 days straight

Everybody who like to contact with LibMod team can contact with me by skype (just chat, haven't microfone).

My skype is in profile.

---------- Post added at 09:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 PM ----------

Isn't the name of the mod slightly misleading?

When we say 'liberation' we think of the US/Britain/Canada. It's debatable whether the Russians actually liberated europe because essentially they were conquering eastern europe under the guise of liberation. I'm not here to do a history lesson I'm just saying when I saw liberation I assumed the western allies or both east and west.

For exUSSR citizens word Liberation means first of all Eastern Front, believe me.

Yes, was very helpfull aid like "lend lease". Was heroical english convoys by dengerous Nord Sea. Was extrimely britain's tours to coasts of France. Was resisitance in Norway, Italy and France. Was Africa and Sicily.

This mod we make for our citizens and for citizens of other countries to show the WWII like our grandparents saw it.

---------- Post added at 09:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 PM ----------

I hope that if you make campaigns you dont make it one sided, as dont forget Soviet Casualties were Twice as much as the Germans on the Eastern front and the Russians were no Beauty Queens themselves, maybe just as bad as the SS.

Cant wait to ride (well maybe get stuck) through the mud in a King Tiger.

It will be VERY onesided, believe me :cool:

Russians were no Beauty Queens themselves, maybe just as bad as the SS

Can't agree. When Wehrmacht officers (and THEY wasn't so bad) left in 30-31 december of 1941 the village of my grandma they warn to afraid SS-troops.

When SS-mans came they burned village. Do you know what is it for women with small children to remain face to face with -35C frost without houses?

We don't request for german invasion. They came to us, they bring sward, they pay very hard price. It was hard lesson for all people in this war, and we have to respect their memorie and not to repeat that mistakes.

---------- Post added at 10:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 PM ----------

Well, you say you will have Staszów in your map. That's not the 'regions of Russia that the Wehrmacht overran'. ;)

You are "capitan ochevidnost" :). And we don't say that Staszów is region of Russia.

My gr-grandfa died in Poland, if you're interested.

We need help from Poland citizens about Staszów region. Old photos 1st of all. Can you help with it?

---------- Post added at 10:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 PM ----------

I think he meant "one-sided" as showing all Germans as murderous Huns and all Russians as innocent liberating angels being a one-sided campaign. Not that Lib should do a campaign for both sides.

You shouldn't have too much problems getting permission from [FF] Studios, as they are usually very relaxed about giving permission, but it can take longer to get a reply from them than from others.

No. Also if you know, our OFP teammember Stoppel was german. We will make only combat. Will not be free time for player. He'll try to kill enemies not to be killed, simply law of war.

As i told, i haven't problems in cooperation with FF-team.

[mr.g-c 6]

his project is a continuation of a good known modification for OFP “Liberation Warâ€.

Sorry if i ask, but is this mod a continuation/sequel of the well known OFP-Mod "Libmod Ostfront 1943"?

If so: Are you the same guys like that old Mod-Team?

[Ingeneer 10]

Wass:

Only germans and soviet units? it's no good. At germans side fight next units: Hungary, Slovakia, Finland,Italia, Romania, Croatia and volunteers from Vichyist France, Spain, Denmark, Norway , Switzerland, Belgium, Netherlands, Lithuania, Georgia, Estonia and ROA. And soviet side: France, Poland Czechoslovakia (czechoslovakian units liberate in autumn 1943 centrum Kiev, During battle for Charkov in March 1943 as only czechoslovakian battalion not get in investment and captivity). At soviert side fight from year 1944 too Romania and Bulgaria. My granddad fight from springtime 1943 in czechoslovakian troops in USSR, grandmother too.

You have to be proud for your grandparents.

Good idea, really. I already discussed it with other team members. My point of view - czechs and slovaks have to make good missions for their troops.

It will be simple to add simbols.

If somebody wants - i'll try to maintain permission for models after release.

Or we'll add Polish eagle and CS tricolor as hidden.

Let's discuss. My skype is here.

---------- Post added at 10:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 PM ----------

Sorry if i ask, but is this mod a continuation/sequel of the well known OFP-Mod "Libmod Ostfront 1943"?

If so: Are you the same guys like that old Mod-Team?

Our name for OFP was Liberation 1941-1945 mod.

Old team members -

Loktew - missions, models, team leader and also of SARMAT Studio.

Lovesan - maps

Me - mmm... kozlice

Also Sea Demon helps to us, but he's alone wolf :o.

Other team members are newbies but very talanted i think :cool:

With many of old team members i'm still in contact.

Edited December 2, 2009 by Ingeneer

[WelshManDan 10]

It will be VERY onesided, believe me :cool:

Can't agree. When Wehrmacht officers (and THEY wasn't so bad) left in 30-31 december of 1941 the village of my grandma they warn to afraid SS-troops.

When SS-mans came they burned village. Do you know what is it for women with small children to remain face to face with -35C frost without houses?

We don't request for german invasion. They came to us, they bring sward, they pay very hard price. It was hard lesson for all people in this war, and we have to respect their memorie and not to repeat that mistakes.

I can agree to that aspect, but after the conquer of Eastern Berlin, the Russians actually sent the NKVD in to murder everything (even down to pets) inside Berlin, im sure the same fate was given to other German cities and POW's.

I never said the Germans werent bad, in fact I know that they were terrible and horribly cruel, but im just saying that the Russians werent the Prize Peaceful Angels that the media and the world likes to think they were.

I respect all Nations who fought during that horrible war and that horrible front, but I dont think the German Battle scenarios should be overlooked, as dont forget they were fighting on two fronts almost all through the war.

France + Skies over Britain - Battle of Britain

Then North Africa + Operation Barbarossa

Eastern Front + Normandy Invasion

then eventually German cities themselves, not to even mention helping the Italians and the Battle of the Atlantic.

I do not mean to upset everyone, just a realistic view upon soldiers of the fronts shown for a Realistic game.

P.S, I did not mean a German Campaign, simply if you show a bad German Event or Murder, be sure to show a Russian one, not like the stupid Call Of Duty World At War Campaign.

[Ingeneer 10]

:)

more screens, they are pleasing us :)

more :) more :)

We'll try, fellow.

---------- Post added at 10:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 PM ----------

the Russians actually sent the NKVD in to murder everything (even down to pets) inside Berlin, im sure the same fate was given to other German cities and POW's.

I think it's NOT TRUE. If you want to discuss - make another topic and let me know. Here it will be offtopic. Prepare documents, i'll try also and will discuss.

German Battle scenarios should be overlooked, as dont forget they were fighting on two fronts almost all through the war.

If somebody wants - they can make it. But not us.

We are Russian mod and it's our view.

I can only promise a lot of combat action, realistic models and as much historical accuracy as possible. We'll focuse at small episode and i hope we can provide it.

[Defunkt 431]

Really looking forward to it Ingeneer and all the screenshots and video you might post between now and then. Good luck.

[vilas 473]

I can agree to that aspect, but after the conquer of Eastern Berlin, the Russians actually sent the NKVD in to murder everything (even down to pets) inside Berlin, im sure the same fate was given to other German cities and POW's.

and how many people were morded by Germans ?

eye for an eye, "kto sieje wiatr, zbiera burze" - the one who plants wind collects the storm

believe me, if my family was murdered by Germans , if i was in Berlin in 1945 i would mutilated first German soldier i see , and it is natural

fault is of those who start fight, not who finishes

like on street, when criminal tries to rob woman, take her money , he cannot claim that policeman shot him

he decided to rob someone - he will die, easy and simple

problem is that in ZDF TV station 2 days ago it was told "Polish death camps" , although death camps were German on occupied territory of Poland

if someone killed my relatives, raped our grandmothers, burned our houses - we just want revenge and it is natural

there were killed 50 milions people from attacked countries while "only" 12 milions from axis

we hadn't settled the score

Russians not gas murdered 6 millions of Germans... maybe they should, at least now should kill skinhead and Heider voters

Russians not burnt all villages, Russians were not doing what SS did

maybe they were too good for Germans

who the f*** are you? grandson of SS man ?

WW2 was started by Germans, it turned against them and thats all

the one who plants wind collects the storm and nothing more

if i attack someone on street i cannot expect him to be polite to me

if someone attack me on street i can pull out knife of gun and he is dead - it is normal, that attacker gets effect of attack

Liberation mod is mod about USSR army and thats all , don't mix politics and justifying crimes to addons

as it comes to my personal loses - my family lost all what they built, grandfathers worked hard, all was destroyed by bomb and in effect people here lived in poverty till 60's, in my country everyone lost someone, many many civilian died

every war is bad, every war kills , guys from Lib mod just make USSR mod and thats all, they do mod about their own army (with best quality graphics) and nothing more should be said

there is very wise lyrics of one Polish death metal band "Quo Vadis" - "when someone takes rifle to hand, it means someone will lost his life and his home" in every war

Edited December 2, 2009 by vilas

[Ingeneer 10]

Russians were not burning villages

Burned. But it was OUR's villages. That's was the situation of 1941 year. Other deal was death of whole country.

But let's stop offtop :)

[Drew 10]

ah right on Ingeneer, Frizzy Contacted me and said it was ok to release it as well :D I have decided not to release it though since you are going to release it soon, If you need help with any old con versions let me know. I have all of the WW2 Tanks ported over as well as all of the jets :D

[Ingeneer 10]

New art

and repeat lost screenshot

big one http://s54.radikal.ru/i143/0912/7b/aa8bc214c3fc.jpg

Edited December 3, 2009 by Ingeneer

[lecholas 2]

You are "capitan ochevidnost" :). And we don't say that Staszów is region of Russia.

My gr-grandfa died in Poland, if you're interested.

We need help from Poland citizens about Staszów region. Old photos 1st of all. Can you help with it?

My grandfather with his two brothers, my grandmother (as a nurse) were in Home Army (Armia Krajowa - Polish resistance) during WWII. They operated on Polish grounds that were captured in 1939 by the Soviets. (Don't forget that from 1939 to 1941 USSR were allied with the Germans). A lot of my grandfather's commanders were executed, assasinated, or imprisoned by the Soviets (was it NKVD, Russian partisants, regular army or Polish units subordinated to the Soviets (Armia Ludowa, Ludowe Wojsko Polskie)) when USSR started to conquer those regions of Poland for the second time, in 1944. After the war the most of the commanders (and a lot of officers and soldiers) of Home Army were sentenced to prison or executed in so called judical murders. Quite a few of members of the Polish resistance (but also Balts for example) remained in conspiracy, frequently in forests till the death of Stalin. The last of so called Cursed Soldiers was killed in 1963 near the city where I live (you can compare it to the Japeneese soldiers hidding on some forgotten islands on the Pacific Ocean).

The history of the IIWW in the Middle-Eastern Europe (and the period after it) could not be objectively researched in Middle-Eastern countries untill 1990 (e.g. until this year the official version of history said that it was the Germans who were responsible for the Katyń massacre and teachers who tought their pupils the real version were repressed) and the history was replaced by propaganda. The most of Western historians either weren't interested in it or couldn't get the needed sources (e.g. they couldn't just go to Katyń to make their researches, they couldn't talk to the ex-Cursed Soldiers who were hidding their identity in fear of repressions etc.).

For the Poles, especially for those from the eastern part of Poland (but not only for them, let's ask the Czechs, the Slovaks, the Hungarians, the Romanians, the Fins, the Balts; see for example this link in wikipedia) it's not an easy answer to the question who was the greater enemy during the IIWW - was it the Third Reich or the Soviet Union. And what was worse - making alliances with the Nazis or the Soviets. The nicest way wolud be not to ally with any of those forces but that meant being alone between two great powers willing to crush you (the Warsaw Uprising can be regarded as aimed against the Nazis in the military respect and against the Soviets in political respect; it ended tragically for the Polish resistance and civilian population of Warsaw). I don't have the answer for that. But surely seeing USSR as the allie and liberator as opposed to the Third Reich as the enemy and oppressor is TOTALLY untrue. I won't continue this topic here. But I encourage everybody to read more about the IIWW in the Middle-Eastern Europe. And I don't mean wikipedia. I mean books. Historical books written by accademics (especially those published after 1989).

As it goes for Staszów region I've already looked for some photos of the Holy Spirit's Church in it's prewar form but couldn't find any. I'll ask if anyone has such photos on the Staszów's forum. There are also some sites with old photos of the Polish cities and towns which doesn't have any interesting photos from Staszów right now but are constantly updated with the new ones so you can look at them from time to time.

Here's one of such sites:

National Digital Archive

[vilas 473]

nie rób tego co inni, polityka NIE, addony, technika TAK

please end with political issue,

usual Russian not had idea what NKVD do, usual Russian soldier was afraid of NKVD as we

usual man from Russia get Mosin and was "giving blood" without knowledge what his leader done, usual soldier or Red Army had no idea about Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, usual soldier only knew SS burned village and raped daughters

usual Russian afraid NKVD so much, that it is unimaginable today, human life meant nothing, Stalin murdered 100 or 1000 times more USSR citizens than us

Liberation mod is mod about Soviet army from WW2, cause usual Soviet soldier had no idea about what NKVD do to other people nations

Hitler was voted, Stalin no and it makes difference , one murdered millions in gas chambers, other shoot in head few thousands , makes 1000 times difference

Edited December 3, 2009 by vilas