Real Stats on ArmA better than myth head-lies

[walker 0]

Hi all

Interesting to see the concern troll head-lie posts wonder why?

Anyway.

You can get some stats on the number of hours played in ArmA

http://arma2.swec.se/game/statistics

Seems like all the "There is no PvP!" head-lies are incorrect Coop accounts for 41% of ArmA II

A look at Berzerk stats shows the number of players playing just that one game form on just that one Server is over 11000 people! And rising at over 1000 per week!

http://www.get42.com/berzerk/player.php?column=score&order=desc&page=24

So I guess the head-lie about ArmA declining fast is scotched.

The DAO 100 player server is always full so much so that they have started running a second Berzerk server. There are usualy 2 or 3 others in the hundred player region each evening.

And all this ignores the fact that most of the large clan/community servers do not show up in the stats because they are hidden.

Kind Regards walker

Edited September 11, 2009 by walker

[maddogx 13]

!surprising :)

People have always tended to inflate their problems to ridiculous levels. It essentially boils down to:

"I like playing PvP, but I can't find many PvP servers. Therefore no-one plays PvP. But I think PvP is the best game mode, so if no one is playing PvP, Arma2 is obviously dying because otherwise people would be playing PvP."

Edit: What is a head-lie?

[walker 0]

...Edit: What is a head-lie?

Hi MadDogX

A lie disguised as a headline hence a head-lie. Here are a couple of recent examples on the forum.

PvP: An Endangered Species

player count dropping FAST

They are used by concern trolls to push their agenda. You often find the same people doing them.

They work on the following psychological manipulation of the reader. It is based on the fear principle; that people are more concerned by threats; as they are existential. People want to find out about dangers to their existence, so they go higher up in their concerns; hence concern troll.

It is a neat little confidence trick practiced by tabloid news papers and concern trolls to falsely inflate the "popularity" of an unpopular agenda based on peoples concerns and fears. Politicians also do it. Say something outrageous that will attract a lot of posts; mainly anti the head-lie but that does not matter. This makes the head-lie stay high in the posts on a forum and in politics and newspapers it raises a subject so that it appears to be popular when in reality it is not! It is just controversial. So by replying to it people who are trying to counter the argument are actually working for the head-lie.

It is manipulation of the person who replies based on a non existent threat. It is also why we have the story of the "Boy who cried wolf" because society really hates people who falsely shout "Fire!" in a cinema; they can get people killed.

In forums it is called trolling. Posting in head-lie subjects to counter them is called feeding the troll, hence "Don't feed the troll!" It is really hard not to react and post in reply to an outrageous post, as it is perceived as a threat to some part of the readers existence. However once people realise a confidence trick is being perpetrated on them they realise it is better to just PM the the concern troll and call them on it. Ignore buttons are also useful.

Here is a simple PM to post to the OP when you catch a head-lie; rather than being taken in by their head-lie

Hi

I think your thread subject .... (linky) is a Concern Troll Head-lie. Welcome to my ignore button.

Kind Regards walker

Edited September 12, 2009 by walker

[maddogx 13]

A lie disguised as a headline hence a head-lie.

Ah, I know about those. Just wasn't familiar with the term head-lie. :)

I believe the newspapers you talk about tend to formulate these as questions, since "Giant spider aliens invade Britain!" would be a blatant lie, whereas "Did giant spider aliens invade Britain?" - technically - would not.

[walker 0]

Hi MadDogX

Yep the formulation of a head-lie as a question is a more advanced example of a head-lie in order to not be sued! Also if the question is long enough, part of the question can be quoted, thus getting rid of the awkward question mark and allowing you to "Quote just the lie...".

Another method is to use a sock puppet. That is to wind up some one who is too stupid to realise they are being manipulated to say the lie for you, then you can just "Quote the lie!" Such people are often not worth suing as they have no money or the person suing for the lie is seen as bullying.

Another method is to say "It is alleged that..." But one often needs a source but one can always then say you are a journalist and do not give away your sources.

By using a head-lie it is possible to take something that never existed and create it as a concern. Want to knock the EU create a myth about straight bananas!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6481969.stm

Want to say the NHS is hated in the UK so you can knock Obama's health care plan have a UK conservative sock-puppet say it for you. I swear to you some in America believe him.

Say a lie long enough and loud enough and eventually enough people will believe it is true. That is what created the Nazi party in Germany and even if you know the lie and are anti it; you can be fooled into accepting it; consider a whole bunch of US Anti Nazi kids were fooled into following "The Third Wave"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave

Politicians and newspaper people have manipulated the population for centuries, why do you think they hate media studies as a degree so much? Can not have the general public knowing how it all works, now can we?

Kind Regards walker

Edited September 12, 2009 by walker

[.kju 3239]

Well such general stats really don't do the reality justice.

Only have 1-3 AAS, CTF, other C&H server populated at a time isn't much at all.

What is important to understand that the actual playing community is split more and more

between different game types, as well as most clan players playing PvP on passworded servers.

In addition you need to take the different regions/time zones into account. EU, Australia and US.

So no Walker your story does not work.

Edited September 11, 2009 by kju

[walker 0]

Hi all

In reply to kju

As to your point about incomplete statisitics I fully accept that, infact I pointed out the stats are not complete in my first post, as they do not include the large private clan/and community servers that run hidden in order keep out the riff raff.

My story is simple and supported by real metrics. Within servers that register and are visible on Gamespy in the last 30 Days:

The "PvP: An Endangered Species" head-lie is a myth that is totally busted; as only 41% of game forms in ArmA II are coop.

The forms of PvP are very varied and make up the majority of ArmA II online play at more than 56%.

Hold at 29% is the biggest PvP game form Berzerk and the progressive hold games.

Team v Team PvP accounts for 12%

CTI PvP variants come in at 8% of ArmA II activity.

CTF is 7% no surprise there CTF is a little bit long in the tooth and a bit of a holdover from old fashioned games like COD but people still look on it nostalgically and like to have the odd half hour CTF usually to start off the gaming night.

The Berzerk stats proves that the number of ArmA II players is increasing at around 1000 plus a week on just that one server.

Me I am a typical ArmA II player I play a mix of PvP and Coop only a numpty would only play a single game form when ArmA II offers an all you can play and anything you can imagine mix. I am an omnivore, I am not into being a sheep and just eating grass.

Kind Regards walker

Edited September 11, 2009 by walker

[.kju 3239]

They are not run hidden and are part of the statistics. You are wrong about this.

They are just passworded and therefore your bright picture is not the reality.

Do as you like, yet the statistics do not reflect a gamers reality.

[desertjedi 3]

"Nobody goes to that restaurant anymore, it's too crowded."

Nice find, Walker.

[Inkompetent 0]

I still think it is a fair point made that both PvP is dead and COOP is dead, simply from the POV that the vast majority of the online playercount on non-passworded servers are found on Berzerk, Warfare BE, Evolution or Domination servers/missions (not counting Chernarus Life since it's so extremely niched and non-standard gameplay).

With only variants of four missions being the predominant factor in public gameplay I can understand if people think that things look dead, since many grow tired of them after a while.

It's not easy to do anything against, but I think it's important to see why people say what they do, rather than just saying that they are wrong because the numbers don't match up.

Personally I think that "Yes, public gameplay is dead. Both COOP and PvP." and that's why I stick to communities. I don't like the above mentioned missions, and that rules out playing with the vast majority of public server players. And that's part of the problem in itself. I don't even try looking for public servers anymore because I can't be arsed trying to find a server with good players, good missions, and that ain't one of the missions above.

I'm quite confident that there are hundreds of players doing exactly that.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Inkompetent

[Murklor 10]

Everyone stay away from PvP due to head lice, yes.

[walker 0]

Hi all

As I have said on several occasions there are many myths perpetrated on the ArmA community by people with their own agenda's.

The only ways to find out the truth are to check the statistics and scientific analysis and to play ArmA your self.

Kind Regards walker

[.kju 3239]

We all know that statistics are as good as you make them to look.

Only what counts is actually looking for servers every evening.

Thats what people are doing and not finding a lively scene of all the different sub game

mode community.

Can you turn it as you like walker, it aint gonna get true.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Statisitics and scientific analysis are the only objective measure of any subject, anything else is myth and voodoo.

As to personal assesment you make it your self by playing the game, any one else spouting is obviously their assesment not yours. No amount of others mythologising can replace your own critical faculties.

To find out what and how much is being played on ArmA you can only find out by either checking the statistics or by playing ArmA your self. I am sorry kju those are the only ways to do it.

Kind Regards walker

[galzohar 31]

You can look at player count statistics, but the statistics that truly matter are the % of people that go online and often can't find a populated server running a mission that they want to play. If a lot of people have this issue, then it doesn't matter how many people go through the berzerk/other server on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. In fact even if I just came to download the berzerk mission because I wanted to see its scripts it would be enough to add me to the player count.

The game may not be dead, but it doesn't seem to be going anywhere with the current server population and mission making rate. To be honest, I'm having a hard time finding coop missions, and it's impossible to find good small pvp missions, to play with my friends, so I and have to make them myself! Finding servers to play on is therefore that much more difficult. When my friends are offline, my choice is one of the 5 missions mentioned above. Everything else, you'll be lucky to find, and most chances it'll be a mission that doesn't really work anyway, which is probably why people stick with the above missions even though they don't have the absolute best gameplay Arma 2 can offer.

To be honest I can see why not many people jump on the editor to make good missions. At the end you're most likely to be the only one playing your missions. I've made a couple of missions that didn't even get tested, not to mention added to a populated server's list, except 1 time I saw a 6-man coop I made being ran on a server with only 2 players in it and I got kicked as soon as I joined. So again I can see why people are discouraged to publish their missions. It simply feels like a pointless effort. Not that I'm going to stop making them, as even the missions I play myself I want to be release-quality so I might as well release them for the small chance someone will play them.

Edited September 11, 2009 by galzohar

[mils 10]

i play arma 2 co-op only.

but that's cause i have pvp period :)

[deadsmell 10]

Actually I think You may be missing the point.

Most of us dont Regard "berzerk" or the other "aas" missions that are being played, and are popular, as being any good, or worth playing at all.

The real tragedy is that the players dont seem to mind or recognize that the missions they are playing took two seconds to make and zero thought. As long as everyone else is playing it, i guess it must be good though huh.

Sure there are people playing PVP, but what they are all flocking to day after day is total crap. Thats the most frustrating thing about it. The players are retards. I dont feel bad about saying it at all, so dont bother trying to get all righteous about it.

And the servers just keep running it cuz they dont know any better either.

[.kju 3239]

So make a decent analysis. Yours is just a fail Walker for the reality people are talking

about here in the forums.

Just making up some story, repeating it all over again and trying to make it the truth,

just does not work.

[walker 0]

Hi all

I am sorry but reality impinges on fantasy. That a whole bunch of noisy people want to dictate what others enjoy and consider to be PvP does not make it so.

A PvP is Player versus Player the clue is in the name. If the forms of PvP the people who buy ArmA want to play are different from that which a bunch of noisy forum blowhards want, well tough for the blowhards.

I realise that there is a class of people who want particular game forms and want everyone to be sheep and eat the same grass. Well as I say ArmA players are omnivores. We play coop, hold, CTI, Team Team, CTF and any new game form our vivid imaginations can come up with.

Whining because server admins have found that no one is interested to play the game form you like is just silly.

Last night once again the DAO server was full. I could not even get on it.

Kind regards walker

Edited September 12, 2009 by walker

[.kju 3239]

It is just a matter of fact that the bad state of a2 at the German release make a lot of

people not buy it or return the game soon after / no longer play it.

While for a1 and especially OFP Germany was the countries the series sold, by far, most.

505 release wasn't what you call polished either. BI does not address fundamental

gameplay, griefing, cheating problems. No addon download, no linux server.

People are used to higher standards from other games. Especially an UI and help system

to guide new players. If BI won't address these, the potential player base will remain

small as it is.

You can advocate Berzerk, Domination, crCTI, Evolution as much as you like. While there

are many players that do like those missions, and they are far better anything ships

with the game IMHO, you still have many other players looking for different gameplay.

There is a reason people prefer to play other type of missions.

So your story, is not the story of others.

Edited September 12, 2009 by kju

[Defunkt 431]

A huge opportunity went begging because, while BIS succeeded in attracting new gamers with ArmA II's fantastic visuals, many of those won't have urged their friends to get the game. ArmA II does not deliver at all well on a typical gamer's expectation of accessible, well-tested, adversarial multi-player. These games will improve with time but it'll be that much harder to grow the playerbase without the flush of interest that attends a new release.

[sbsmac 0]

Agree with you Defunkt which is why I think OA is such an important move for BIS. If they can polish the engine prior to that release we could see a real influx of players.

[galzohar 31]

That's a pretty big IF, and assumes that people have not already lost their trust.

[deadsmell 10]

The players are sheep already, i dont want them to be sheep, i want them to open their eyes.

I personally feel that there is a huge void between the community here on the forums, and the actual players and server admins.

The thoughts and ideas shared here, are not reflected in the actual player/server base.

If the majority of the worlds population woke up tomorrow and decided to start eating shit sandwiches, would that mean that shit tastes good? Using walkers scientific logic, that must be true. right?

Walker I want you to know that I understand how you feel when you see posts that you dont agree with, or that bother you for whatever reason. We all care about the game, and gaming in general. We dont all agree on everything, or possibly anything, lol, but I dont think its fair to say were all trolls or whatever. I think there are those of us that are unsatisfied with the current state of MP, and we are simply trying to draw attention to it, find other like minded folks, and hopefully make an impact on the community for the better

That being said, im sure there are trolls as well though. :)

Walker I do agree that the players are very spread out in what they want to play, that has been a legacy of this series since flashpoint. I dont have a problem with co-op, or any of that. People can absolutely play what they want. They can eat what they want too. But just because they eat/play it, doesnt mean im going to.

Frankly I think all the "popular" servers are doing a great disservice to the community by running the garbage that they are.

In reality I think the best thing that could happen is if those players get bored and just leave the game for good. Then maybe well be left some open minded folks that are willing to try something new, and then well actually get some good games in. As long as these slackjaws keep on being mr. popular, they are just going to keep running the same dull, chaotic, uninspired, moron missions.

Id rather play quality with 10 players, than splash around in the sewage with a 100.

Unfortuantely that sentiment is not shared by the rest of the players, as they will play whatever everyone else is playing, and wont think twice about it.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Deadmeat as I keep saying stats, scientific tests and your own personal opinion are the only ways to decide what is going on in ArmA.

Opinion is personal, I do not say people should not express it, they can and should but another persons opinion is NOT yours; unless you are into some weird religion. All of us are best playing ArmA in order to form our own opinion and not take the opinion of others as the word from above. That is the way that fascism took root.

What I pointed out in the first few posts was two things:

1) That the stats exist and seem to contradict what some people have said.

2) That some people use a confidence trick to push their own agenda. I also described how the confidence trick works.

I do not think either point is incorrect or controversial other than to those who like to perpetrate confidence tricks on the community.

I do not object to debate. In fact I welcome it.

Kind Regards walker

Edited September 13, 2009 by walker