FP : DR - News & Discussion

[Deadfast 43]

In all fairness, a lot of OFP and ArmA missions had a similar arrangement. For example, go to the shooting range tutorial in ArmA 1 and try walking away from the base.

Yeah, I wouldn't consider this a con either.

[walker 0]

Hi all

In the light of recent findings and anouncements I think it is worth while reviving this post I made earlier in the thread.

Hi all

The big company problem

Being a large company means you you tend to think size will solve your problems. Spend more money, use more resources, use a bigger team etc.

A second problem is that it tends to lead to looking at the market as a mass market and thus creating a mass market solution hence the common lowest denominator.

The thing about a recession is that larger companies have larger overheads and run out of cash more quickly. Having a large project with millions invested in it means there is x million is tied up in a large project when your cash needs are at their highest and because there is a recession borrowing is tight.

In essence the large companies economies of scale start to work in reverse. It often makes large companies desperate.

They cannot cut resources as that means the product will not be produced at all; straight loss. So they look to reduce deliver-ables; the quality of what they produce so as to cut costs and corners. While relying on their past good name to fool former customers into buying a pig in a poke. This is often a sign that a company is in the decline phase.

It is called "Whoring the Brand" it is the marketing equivalent of AIDS.

It is easily diagnosed by asking the question "Are sales more important than quality?"

If a company is dropping features and appealing to a "perceived" mass market I would say those were major indicators.

Effects

The reason why it is the the marketing equivalent of AIDS is, that in recession people want to save money thus they gravitate to two solutions either:

Lowest Cost; Pound Shop rather than Woolworths. Short term cost saving.

OR

Quality; Toyota rather than GM/Ford/Chrysler. Long term cost saving.

The reason people buy Quality in a recession is that:

1st) Quality is cheaper to buy in a recession due to general price depreciation making the quality product a bargain at sale prices.

2nd) Customers perceive quality, to last longer thus saving them money in the long term. In the case of a game re-playability is that perceived longer lasting product.

This has a tertiary effect for small companies that offer quality; it creates a virtuous circle for the quality product as its sales go up at the expense of larger companies with lower quality products that fail, thus allowing the quality company to take advantage of the large companies Economies of Scale while maintaining a small companies cost base.

As Baff1 and Placebo pointed out people have to ask who is producing the quality product?

Simple

Kind Regards walker

Frankly I am amazed how many predictions I made about the low quality product CM would release have turned out to be true.

The big question that remains is "With a world recesion and BIS able to release four products in the time it takes CM to release one low quality product. Can CM survive another failed product release?"

Kind Regards wallker

[Heatseeker 0]

Hi all

http://www.caveofdistraction.com/2009/08/13/some-developer-tidbits-about-ofp2/

Welcome to another Shoebox Prison of The Mind.

Regards walker

...Each mission restricts the player to a given square ‘zone’ of operations outside of which there is no mission content. These zones are large enough that it’s rare to reach the edge of one unless the player is trying to do so. On the PC version people could probably make missions that encomapass the whole island if they wanted to...

Sure sure, harvest red/warfare are teh real simulation material :rolleyes: .

A campaign made of well executed missions? No scripted a.i. spawns? No RTS? A coop campaign like the 1985/Resistance campaigns?

*Good*

Hi all

Frankly I am amazed how many predictions I made about the low quality product CM would release have turned out to be true.

The big question that remains is "With a world recesion and BIS able to release four products in the time it takes CM to release one low quality product. Can CM survive another failed product release?"

Kind Regards wallker

What makes you think DR is such a low quality product? You know the game is broken, disfunctional, unstable, unplayable even before release? :confused: .

Edited August 16, 2009 by Heatseeker

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

WHAT?

No bunny hopping.

That's the last straw:rolleyes:

[ricbar89 0]

I love how Walker just turns up and spouts of load of bile and disappears again without having to answer any of his claims, like the “why has Operation Flashpoint Dragon Rising been cancelled†post for example.

Anyway pretty much all of that has turned out to be false and it completely contradicts what CM have said so why you're paying attention to it i dont know.

[Grimnirsson 0]

Don't feed the troll...

[walker 0]

Hi all

As I predicted CM's DR is a serious retreat from the capabilities of BIS's OFP. CM have the name and no capability to live up to it.

NO Jets

NO Civilians

Fake Fog

4 man Multiplayer on consoles

Aparently only 12 Player MP on PC which is 20 less than the 32 BIS's OFP Elite did on the old X-Box and no where near the 128 player servers available for ArmA

Seriously limited and unfriendly mission editor on PC.

No Editor for consoles.

Old Fashioned Graphics.

No lean.

No TrackIR.

Shoe Box game play.

The most shocking thing is the low entity count I am hearing figures of less than 50 entities mentioned making mission play miniscule. The number is less than the number of entities in Space Invaders and this is the 21st century not the 1970s.

I will be truly shocked if this game cannot get above the entity count of Space Invaders.

Can they retreat anymore from the vision of of BIS's OFP. No wonder BIS gave them the sack.

Regards Walker

Edited August 17, 2009 by walker

[sparks50 0]

No lean.

Wasn't in OFP pc version either. Didnt seem like a big deal back then.

No TrackIR.

There will be TrackIR, but only in vehicles.

Shoe Box game play.

How? The map is about the same size as Chernarus and has an editor?

NO Jets

I would argue that the scale of the islands are too small to even remotely do modern air combat justice. For them to set some limits and rather try to the remaining things better, may not be a bad idea.

[Student Pilot 0]

I think now's a good time to repeat this:

Don't feed the troll...

Seeing as everyone is talking about low poly count and graphics that may not be as nice as ArmaII, may I remind everyone that ArmaII requires the latest hardware to run well? If anything, CM's approach to OFP DR, at least graphics-wise, is somewhat like the OFP we all know and love. OFP's graphics weren't great, but darn if it wouldn't run on almost any machine. This is something I think BIS got away from with Arma and ArmaII. Now, I am not saying that BIS's move was the wrong direction, it is just one I cannot join BIS in taking. Maybe when I graduate from college and get a good job I will rejoin BIS in their perfection of the milsim.

With that being said, we still do not know what the performance of OFP DR is like. If the graphics are anything to go by, it should run on even average systems just fine. If it doesn't, you can be sure I won't be buying it.

-Student Pilot

[Guest]

In response to walker. (The most Anti-Dragon Rising person alive)

NO Jets

(Agreed)

NO Civilians

(Agreed, i don't like that either. Mods will fix it)

Fake Fog

(Yeah, Arma 2's fog is amazing...)

4 man Multiplayer on consoles

(8 man, 3 AI per human. but yeah, it fails. Thats why i have a PC. Let's not forget Arma 2 isn't even on console, so thats still better than Arma 2.)

Aparently only 12 Player MP on PC which is 20 less than the 32 BIS's OFP Elite did on the old X-Box and no where near the 128 player servers available for ArmA

(32 player. Learn before you post. But yes, still uncomparable to Arma, agreed)

Seriously limited and unfriendly mission editor on PC.

(the same type of editor you would see in crysis. It is much less user friendly then Arma's, but it was designed for dev's, not players. Therfor it has as much power as Arma 2's)

No Editor for consoles.

(No Arma 2 at all for consoles)

Old Fashioned Graphics.

(they aren't amazing, i agree. But lol, Arma 2's graphics are from 2001, they just got tweaked. Let's not forget when DR's development begun, the 8800GT was the best of the best)

No lean.

(Above you are saying how the game fails to beat ofp 1, yet forgot that ofp 1 had no lean either)

No TrackIR.

(Agreed, another lacking feature. I, and most other players don't use it, so i personally don't care)

Shoe Box game play.

(I agree, not as dynamic as Arma 2. But not shoebox. Very far from it)

The most shocking thing is the low entity count I am hearing figures of less than 50 entities mentioned making mission play miniscule. The number is less than the number of entities in Space Invaders and this is the 21st century not the 1970s.

I will be truly shocked if this game cannot get above the entity count of Space Invaders.

Can they retreat anymore from the vision of of BIS's OFP. No wonder BIS gave them the sack.

(Please go and tell me something you can prove didn't come out of your biased, ignorant brain)

No offense to you personally of course, i respect you alot. But sometimes you talk more shit then a donkeys arse.

[lwlooz 0]

Hello,

I don't even see how graphics come into this.

How exactly has BIS primary focus on graphics helped us in getting a better simulation of combat scenarios? Very little I would think.

What good has HDR exactly done to ArmA/Arma2? Or Bloom?

I see OFP2 , and I am repeating myself here, as a viable alternative for the more action-oriented FPS players who want a tidbit more "realism".

I can see how along the line , if CM develops their OFP series further , the main focus will be on effects , 'realism' (in the acccuracy sense,not in the "Can actual simulate proper combat" sense) and immersion.

Things that i over the years have seen many people beg for on this forum.

The game is also going to be better for people that hate OFP(BIS) controls. It seems to follow common FPS standards , now I couldn't stand playing a second with that , but again many people over the years wanted exactly that.

It is only a shame about the player count , because otherwise OFP2(CM) would probably be the perfect game for most Classic-PvP gamers as well.

If CM doesn't fuck up too bad , having something that prevents the action guys coming here and getting all dissappointed with "dull" Arma2 , it is good for them and good for the rest of us.

So I frankly don't see where the need for this silly war between the two games comes from.

[Guest]

Hello,

I don't even see how graphics come into this.

How exactly has BIS primary focus on graphics helped us in getting a better simulation of combat scenarios? Very little I would think.

What good has HDR exactly done to ArmA/Arma2? Or Bloom?

I see OFP2 , and I am repeating myself here, as a viable alternative for the more action-oriented FPS players who want a tidbit more "realism".

I can see how along the line , if CM develops their OFP series further , the main focus will be on effects , 'realism' (in the acccuracy sense,not in the "Can actual simulate proper combat" sense) and immersion.

Things that i over the years have seen many people beg for on this forum.

The game is also going to be better for people that hate OFP(BIS) controls. It seems to follow common FPS standards , now I couldn't stand playing a second with that , but again many people over the years wanted exactly that.

It is only a shame about the player count , because otherwise OFP2(CM) would probably be the perfect game for most Classic-PvP gamers as well.

If CM doesn't fuck up too bad , having something that prevents the action guys coming here and getting all dissappointed with "dull" Arma2 , it is good for them and good for the rest of us.

So I frankly don't see where the need for this silly war between the two games comes from.

I agree completely. I have said numerous times that Dragon Rising was not intened to compete with arma 2, but to compliment it.

But people like walker are blindedly against Dragon Rising, for what reason i am unsure. Most likely they feel threatened by the presence of a game which they believe could be better than Arma 2. Even though it won't be, because it's not in the same genre.

I like to argue against these people,maybe i can change how they think about the two games. I doubt it.

All i know is that i will enjoy them both, whilst people like walker sit in a little corner mumbling how bad the game is. Even when they have never experienced it.

[Maddmatt 1]

Seeing as everyone is talking about low poly count and graphics that may not be as nice as ArmaII, may I remind everyone that ArmaII requires the latest hardware to run well? If anything, CM's approach to OFP DR, at least graphics-wise, is somewhat like the OFP we all know and love. OFP's graphics weren't great, but darn if it wouldn't run on almost any machine. ...

I was thinking that too, but then I saw the system requirements: http://cinemablend.com/games/Operation-Flashpoint-Dragon-Rising-System-Requirements-19206.html

About the same requirements as ArmA 2 :confused:

That worries me. Maybe the game isn't as scalable as ArmA 2?

Although I guess these requirements are around the norm these days.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Maddmatt

[Student Pilot 0]

hmm, that is worrisome. I guess the demo will reveal the true hardware requirements once and for all. Just have to wait...

-Student Pilot

[Sugz 10]

"Seriously limited and unfriendly mission editor on PC."

And how, may I ask do you know that, just one sceenshot you cannot base your opinions on a screenshot.

Even if it Looks less user friendly, it doesnt mean that it is not as powerful, the BIS editor dont forget has been Dumbed down to appeal and seem more approachable to a wider audience. CM editor is obviously more raw, and closer to a professional editing tool, like 3D studio Max.

About trackIR, lets think about it before we start kicking and screaming...

How many people in the entire gaming community own TrackIR?

A very small percentage no doubt, therefore, It would be less useful coding and optimising code for a product that no one has.

This would be bad if they didnt support a mouse and keyboard, but ... Duh.. but because TrackIR is owned by such a small percentage it would make no sense to support it for a mass audience.

[Maddmatt 1]

the BIS editor dont forget has been Dumbed down to appeal and seem more approachable to a wider audience.

Only the Xbox version (OFP: Elite) had a dumbed down editor. PC version is fully featured.

Most of the real advanced stuff is done through scripting anyway, just like many games and I have little doubt it will be the same in OFP: DR.

Although ArmA 2 does have the moddable 3D editor. Not in a great state yet but it is powerful.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Maddmatt

[Placebo 29]

Probably to stop the topic from being needlessly bumped.

Indeed.

But seeing as conversation on a regular bases has resumed I'll open the poll up for a while longer.

[n_ck 10]

Preview

Gamestar:

http://www.gamestar.de/preview/action/taktik-shooter/1958091/operation_flashpoint_2.html

“Yeehaa, all in all everything is working very well so far. Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising’s first two missions commence astonishingly smooth. I am curious, whether this is also true for the rest of the game. Although the visuals are not as good as the first screenshots made us believe, but that doesn’t make any difference to me. After all I can play that game fluently on my Laptop with nothing more than 1 GB RAM and a 7600 GT and even then is a good looking game.â€

ESL:

http://www.esl.eu/de/ofp_dr/news/94409/Presseevent-zu-OFP-DR-in-Hamburg/

“You probably want to know what this DVD has to offer. But please keep in mind that I can’t write about all the contents of that DVD. But nevertheless I can assure you that, if Codemasters sticks to their schedule and fixes all the before mentioned bugs, you can expect a bombastic game. I am already confident with all that I have seen so far.â€

OperationFlashpoint2.info:

http://www.operationflashpoint-dr.info/readarticle.php?article_id=24

“It is true; some features of the game had to be excluded. BUT: It already is a hell of fun to play that game. If you consider that the release date is scheduled for October, it is amazing how final it already is. I did not experience any performance problems or LOD-bugs at all. Only a couple of small bugs I mentioned before distinguish this preview-version from being final. It definitely tops some other products on my hard disk that were supposed to be final. If Codemasters is going to use the rest of the time reasonable and fixes some bugs, OFP: DR is going to be the one and only tactical warfare simulation. And by the way: If you see how your avatar-soldier is assembling and reloading a Javelin, you won’t have any doubts that this is the closest to reality tactical shooter ever. No trace of CoD or BF feeling. Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising, I am awaiting you!â€

GamersGlobal:

http://www.gamersglobal.de/angetestet/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising

“Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising seems to be a worthy sequel to the ingenious first part. It is as remorseless, hard and versatile as Bohemia Interactive’s original was then. We do hope that Codemasters will not commit the same mistakes as Bohemia did with its Armed Assault games: Including too many features without proper testing and releasing the game way to early. Considering the first two missions we played, we are pretty confident that this is not going to happen with OFP: DR. This game is not designed to attract Rambo, because as soon as you pop up your head on the wrong side of the bush you might have done your final mistake. We are going to be very careful on October 8th 2009.â€

DemoNews:

http://www.demonews.de/previews/index.php?artikel=2256

“Run & shoot never was the style associated with Operation Flashpoint. This is also true for the new Episode. The focus of the game has been laid on realism, tactics, and forcing the player to anticipate the behaviour of the enemy during surprise-attacks. Furthermore there were a lot of modding possibilities, which enabled players to create new maps and a never ending amount of scenarios. All these features are also included to Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising. The setting of the 2nd World War has been changed to a near future universe. Realism is expressed by the ability to destroy the whole environment, the behaviour of the corps, or ballistic characteristics of the projectiles; not even mentioning the authentic visual quality of the engine producing the battlefield. Somehow all these features need to be computed and that requires state of the art hardware. Those players who can’t wait to get their hands on it should take look at the minimum requirements at first. In return, despite all simulation aspects, the combats are filled with action and suspense, pushing the adrenaline to the limit. Fans of the prequel can expect to be satisfied. The game will be released on PS3 and Xbox360 as well.â€

Gaming XP (Austria):

http://www.gamingxp.com/bericht-2797-x360-operation_flashpoint_dragon_rising.htm

“OPDR is already more finished than the direct competitor Arma 2. The developer spent a lot of time in small details in order to make the game experience more intense and to create the right atmosphere. The complex interface of the predecessor was completely build new an the AI will set new standards if the bugs are fixed. If Codemasters uses the time till release and fixes the bugs and improves the graphics and sounds even more, the success will be there. A action-loaded tactical shooter and potential hit!

Gamers.de

http://www.gamers.de/artikel/430/Operation_Flashpoint_2_Dragon_Rising/?skipJIS=true

“Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising is about to climb on the top of all warfare simulations and prepares to stay there for a while. Thereby should be considered, that it’s not an action-shooter, rather than a simulation, that shows the player the most realistic scenario possible. Changing weather, simulation of night and day, fluent movement of the figures, detailed reloading animations and the implementation of sonic speed are only some of the features Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising has to offer. The realistic visuals of the landscape and animated sky will transfer the player right into the battlefield. In contrast to the beautiful landscape there is the hard reality of war, which Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising brings as close to the player as possible.â€

Gamers Network

http://www.gamer-network.com/index.php?area=vbcmsarea_content&contentid=18&article=22689... ... icle=22689

â€After taking a trip to the Sakhalin islands there is no doubt that Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising is going to be a worthy sequel. Although it is not as hardcore simulated as ARMA 2 it offers a lot of versatile assignments, a huge area, intuitive controls and beautiful visuals. Only the AI had some blackouts and should be further improved by Codemasters.â€

In-Game

http://www.ingame.de/content/c/93504/

“Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising not only pledges a lot, but also keeps promises. Whereas ARMA 2 could not comply with the high requirements, OFP: DR shows how it has to be done. Every small detail was considered for implementation. Shooting at the enemy is not a wise idea without anticipating their reactions. Codemasters is about to release the game for PC, PS3, and Xbox360. Every cover has to be chosen carefully, if you don’t want anything to block your sight towards the enemy.â€

Eurogamer.de

http://www.eurogamer.de/articles/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising-vorschau

â€Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising could be a real hit. It depends on the ability of the developers fixing the bugs. It is also important to me how the story is going to be presented and on behalf of that how far I can identify myself with the playable characters. There were no cut scenes and all the briefing has been delivered by text, which is a little bit dull. It is not possible to save the game by the player himself, so the level of difficulty should be well balanced. At some points the preview-version was way too tough, which was also favoured by the absence of my brothers in arms. In retrospect this explains why designer Tim Browne himself virtually died that often during his presentation ? comforting in some way!â€

video Fuel (14000 km2) - Codemasters neon engine (ofp2 engine):

http://games.tiscali.cz/reviews/fuel-video-recenze/

Edit:

Fuel doesn't use neon engine.

Links now working

Edited August 17, 2009 by n_ck

[dunedain 48]

[...] video Fuel (14000 km2) - Codemasters neon engine (ofp2 engine):

http://games.tiscali.cz/reviews/fuel-video-recenze/

Fuel doesn't use the Ego engine but Asobo Studio own technology..

Edited August 17, 2009 by dunedain

[n_ck 10]

Fuel doesn't use the Ego engine but Asobo Studio own technology..

Ego Engine is a modified version of the Neon engine.

[ricbar89 0]

Hi all

As I predicted CM's DR is a serious retreat from the capabilities of BIS's OFP. CM have the name and no capability to live up to it.

NO Jets

NO Civilians

Fake Fog

4 man Multiplayer on consoles

Aparently only 12 Player MP on PC which is 20 less than the 32 BIS's OFP Elite did on the old X-Box and no where near the 128 player servers available for ArmA

Seriously limited and unfriendly mission editor on PC.

No Editor for consoles.

Old Fashioned Graphics.

No lean.

No TrackIR.

Shoe Box game play.

The most shocking thing is the low entity count I am hearing figures of less than 50 entities mentioned making mission play miniscule. The number is less than the number of entities in Space Invaders and this is the 21st century not the 1970s.

I will be truly shocked if this game cannot get above the entity count of Space Invaders.

Can they retreat anymore from the vision of of BIS's OFP. No wonder BIS gave them the sack.

Regards Walker

How do you know any of this stuff, im still waiting for you to back claims made pages ago, and yet here you are making new ones. Where are you getting this stuff from.

What the hell is fake fog? The AI cants see through it.

How can you have any idea about the map editor? Theres only a few seconds of it shown?

How is there shoebox gameplay when you can go anywhere at any time, this has been stated on many occasions by the devs themselves, or do you just choose to belive any negative information over any fact?

But yeah im sorry, should'nt be feeding the troll.

[dunedain 48]

Ego Engine is a modified version of the Neon engine.

I know.. but Fuel has nothing to do with Codemasters' technology.

But yeah im sorry, should'nt be feeding the troll.

Indeed you shouldn't, there is some guys here who just hate Ofp DR on principle. You can't argue with them.

Edited August 17, 2009 by dunedain

[n_ck 10]

I know..

my mistake ;-)

[Blackhawk 0]

No TrackIR - This means you have to turn the mouse to look in the right direction.

No lean. - This means you have to expose a massive part of your body when shooting around a corner.

12 Player MP on PC - Can't do any battle's bigger than a Small Field Operation.

NO Jets - Stupid, every game like this needs jets, the amount of Jets ArmA 2 is impressive and fun.

NO Civilians - No proper war atmosphere.

These have killed the Operation Flashpoint feeling from the game

Edited August 17, 2009 by Blackhawk

[sparks50 0]

Again, there IS trackIR for helicopters, cars etc, just not for the infantry part. Personally I couldnt care less as I find TrackIR usage in infantry confusing and making me a less effective soldier.

In vehicles however, it is invaluable.

32 players in MP, not 12. repeating something wont make it any more valid.

The usage of civilians in MP missions were pretty rare in OFP, and lean as we all know didn't even exist(until OFP elite that came many years later)

Edited August 17, 2009 by sparks50