ArmA II: Operation Arrowhead discussion thread

[max power 21]

This was answered earlier by Ohara. He says, and I paraphrase, that technically ArmA 2 will be an expansion to Arrowhead in that ArmA 2 content will be available using the Arrowhead exe. There is speculation that arrowhead will install into the arma 2 directory but will use a new exe. This is sort of like PF and FB. Is Pacific Fighters a stand alone game or is it an expansion? Well, both.

[p75 10]

This was answered earlier by Ohara. He says, and I paraphrase, that technically ArmA 2 will be an expansion to Arrowhead in that ArmA 2 content will be available using the Arrowhead exe. There is speculation that arrowhead will install into the arma 2 directory but will use a new exe. This is sort of like PF and FB. Is Pacific Fighters a stand alone game or is it an expansion? Well, both.

No, his question is different, mate. He is asking something else. Reread it.

[Eremitt 10]

Huzzah!

That's just what a broken game need, and expansion.

To hell with fixing the thing, sell more of the same...

But that's how this company work, sell sell sell. Even if its broke.

[ck-claw 1]

Huzzah!

That's just what a broken game need, and expansion.

And thats just what a forum needs!

Ppl that can't fooking read! :rolleyes:

[vasmkd 12]

"Bohemia Interactive is fully committed to supporting the existing ARMA II user base whilst also working on the expansion pack, this will not only allow us to introduce a new and original theater of war to the simulation series, but also improve numerous areas of the core game, for both the original game and the expansion, where we can go even further with adding completely new features" said Marek Spanel, Bohemia's CEO.

http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/101/1013678p1.html

This why i think the features will be added to original too

[Fred DM 0]

"Bohemia Interactive is fully committed to supporting the existing ARMA II user base whilst also working on the expansion pack, this will not only allow us to introduce a new and original theater of war to the simulation series, but also improve numerous areas of the core game, for both the original game and the expansion, where we can go even further with adding completely new features" said Marek Spanel, Bohemia's CEO.

http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/101/1013678p1.html

This why i think the features will be added to original too

that, and it has actually been stated in this very thread. i don't blame you, though, as the amount of useless crap in this thread makes it next to impossible to find anything useful. :j:

i don't get why some people are that upset about the add-on. for one, ArmA 2 is pretty well playable by now. BIS have shown dedicated support by releasing 3 major patches. there's no reason at all to think that's not gonna continue.

second, BIS need the money? no joke? i thought they were running on thin air. :j: if an expansion helps them keep afloat, allows them to better the engine and improve the whole game, and supply their fans with additional content, i'm all for it.

and third, you don't have to buy it. in fact, if you don't like ArmA 2 you shouldn't buy the add-on. you shouldn't even be here. i didn't like ArmA 1, so i didn't buy Queen's Gambit, either. simple.

[vasmkd 12]

Yeah i don't get it either about negative comments, ppl are missing the point of the thread because the negative comments are taking up alot of reading just to make it confusing.

I'm not flattered with the new campaign (thou i'm still happy) as id'e like to fight on the russian side in the campaign but i'll probably support bis still as i am happy if it improves my core game and would love to see BIS make games well into the future.

I am happy that it will help the core game and add features and i don't have to buy it for this to happen unless i want the campaign.

Edited August 14, 2009 by vasmkd

[teaboy 11]

OMFG not that community splitting crap again!

Back in the OFP days there was also an expansion - no one back then was bitching about splitting the community. Why now today?

And yes unbelievable, BIS a company with employees, costs and outgoings wants to earn money!!! What the heck they are thinking?

One could think you as a longtime member should understand that this is about doing business and not only pleasing some gamers, but obviously I was wrong.

And who in the world told you that BIS is not fixing the bugs in ArmA2 in the meantime?

Stop spreading this utter crap about splitting the community and bugs not being fixed.

Everyone who doesn't buy the Expansion can still play ArmA2. This has been the same in ArmA and it was even the same in OFP.

well that just confirms everything doesnt it? And i qoute "One could think you as a longtime member should understand that this is about doing business and not only pleasing some gamers, but obviously I was wrong."

Now myself being the owner of a sales company, i agree it is about buisness and making money. but to openly admit that its not only about pleasing gamers is a smack in the teeth for those of us that are having problems and so is your choice of language and oh calling people stupid thats really proffessional isnt it?.

The number one buisness priority in all buisnesses is keeping their customers happy, if you dont then you lose money and thats hardly a good buisness model to build on is it? your statement has made it clear that your priority of making money comes before that of your customers satisfaction with your products and service (which is basically non existent). To me that is the wrong buisness model and will be losing you more money then what you could make if you kept your customers happy, just look at how many have complained about the original game (myself included), and add that to the fact that you have a small community as it is and ask yourself, can you afford to lose customers like that? answers probably no!

Then theres the fact your removing peoples threads if they complain and openly refer those posts as being spam etc when they are simply complaints, just confirms BIS are ignorant and trying to hide behind the posts that compliement them for their games in public, just so that anyone coming to these forums wont be put off by the bad experince of those whose posts have been removed.

As a successfull businessman i can honestly say your business model of putting profit before customers satisfaction is wrong. that and the fact your ignoring your customers and insulting them on on a public forum will end up costing you more profit then it would ever make you. After all your costumers are your profit, they always have been and always will be. If you lose them which is what will happen if things continue this way, then BIS will end up on the scrap heap. its that simple, and if you cant see that then i beg to ask just who actually are the stupid ones here? you or your customers? because it sure as hell isnt your customers. now with that said its a shame for those of us that this law hasnt been introduced yet, if it had then i doubt wed have had any problems with weather the game worked or not, as the developers would no longer beable to deny liability as they are currently able to do.

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/05/15/european-union-wants-two-year-guarantee-game-software

Now yes it will be good to have an expansion and i hope that the fixes made during development are past on as patches to arma 2 without having to wait for the expansions release first.

Edited August 14, 2009 by teaboy

[Phleep 0]

The bit that I'm peeved about, is that if Arrowhead has a fully functional editor then I just paid 70 bucks a couple of months ago for Arma2, which then becomes just a very expensive unit pack for the Arrowhead editor. Which to me is a bit rich. If Arrowhead doesn't have a fully featured editor, thats cool, Arma2 still has a purpose on its own, otherwise I'm going to feel a bit like I've been milked twice for kinda the same product (the mission editor). This is broadly the point of my last post.

Have you forgotten, or not know about, the 3D editor that wasn't quite finished when Arma was released?

I'd imagine many people will want the expansion so they can have a proper working 3D editor.

[MadCatChiken 10]

Bah US again, always the US.. :P I wanna play as the British for once, why can't it us that goes to "save" the day again. Either way though, glad to see Apaches now. Though i really think this is too early, they should focus on fixing bugs in Arma II before spending time on an expansion.

[LJF 0]

For me it will be a case of whether or not the standalone expansion actually adds anything in the way of [useful] features, now here I'm thinking of at least aircraft countermeasures and maybe some kind of system to simulate the penetration of armour, or the lack of penetration. BI have said they will include new features so I feel better about this whole business, but I'd like to know what they are before I buy.

The following statement makes me nervous though:

One could think you as a longtime member should understand that this is about doing business and not only pleasing some gamers, but obviously I was wrong.

This really depends whether your goals are long-term or short-term, because if people are not satisfied they won't return. Yes, games cost a lot to produce, so you must take into consideration that if you don't have money you cannot produce games. That being said if you fail to please them then you have neither business nor customer satisfaction. You must balance the two or you will drop them both.

I'm looking forward to this expansion but a lot of people feel like this is the end of the road for ArmA2 - not because BI are releasing new content but because it is standalone, it is essentially a new product meaning that the consumers no longer need the original game. Now I'm sure those of us who are unhappy are going on the assumption that at some point in the future, "Operation Arrowhead" is going to take over as the main concern for BI - which I think we can all agree is the only logical step to take, to spend equal time on two products is counter-productive (not only will it split the community (excuse me for saying this here ;)) but it will mean lower quality for both, which is not what we want).

I expected an expansion but neither this early nor an "expand alone" and although I look forward to new content and an authentic feeling theater I do feel kind of betrayed that I wasted money on a product that is already doomed to be forgotten (how long do you expect them to patch it/provide content?). I feel I should have waited for the "next game", a friend of mine likely feels the same way, he recently purchased ArmA2 and expected it to be a long term product, it only arrived a few days ago and now this news that it is to be obsolete? Neither I nor he would have purchased ArmA2 if we knew about this stand alone expansion.

Now we are forced to jump ship and leave ArmA2 behind - yes yes I know about the patches, but in all honesty Operation Arrowhead will be the main product, [original] ArmA2 will fade away to make room for the new game.

[p75 10]

For me it will be a case of whether or not the standalone expansion actually adds anything in the way of [useful] features, now here I'm thinking of at least aircraft countermeasures and maybe some kind of system to simulate the penetration of armour, or the lack of penetration. BI have said they will include new features so I feel better about this whole business, but I'd like to know what they are before I buy.

The following statement makes me nervous though:

This really depends whether your goals are long-term or short-term, because if people are not satisfied they won't return. Yes, games cost a lot to produce, so you must take into consideration that if you don't have money you cannot produce games. That being said if you fail to please them then you have neither business nor customer satisfaction. You must balance the two or you will drop them both.

I'm looking forward to this expansion but a lot of people feel like this is the end of the road for ArmA2 - not because BI are releasing new content but because it is standalone, it is essentially a new product meaning that the consumers no longer need the original game. Now I'm sure those of us who are unhappy are going on the assumption that at some point in the future, "Operation Arrowhead" is going to take over as the main concern for BI - which I think we can all agree is the only logical step to take, to spend equal time on two products is counter-productive (not only will it split the community (excuse me for saying this here ;)) but it will mean lower quality for both, which is not what we want).

I expected an expansion but neither this early nor an "expand alone" and although I look forward to new content and an authentic feeling theater I do feel kind of betrayed that I wasted money on a product that is already doomed to be forgotten (how long do you expect them to patch it/provide content?). I feel I should have waited for the "next game", a friend of mine likely feels the same way, he recently purchased ArmA2 and expected it to be a long term product, it only arrived a few days ago and now this news that it is to be obsolete? Neither I nor he would have purchased ArmA2 if we knew about this stand alone expansion.

Now we are forced to jump ship and leave ArmA2 behind - yes yes I know about the patches, but in all honesty Operation Arrowhead will be the main product, [original] ArmA2 will fade away to make room for the new game.

Listen, mate, no one is making you buy the expansion. Besides that, ...... it was clearly stated that you can use your Arma 2 contents, which a customer who is only buying Arrow Head, simply can't, because he misses the disc.

We all love this game series or else we wouldn't be posting here. The devs genuinely listen and conduct business at the same time. Is that so hard to understand? You get paid at work or not?

It is rather simple economics.

Economics is about choices, if you don't like it, don't buy it. You have a choice! But please stop bitching! It is the same as with everything consumer like. You buy a pair of Nikes and a few months later they have the same model slightly improved, no one will force you to buy the new model.

The dev said clearly that the expansion pack was already in development since January for your and my pleasure. The real world expects ETA to be made, and cash flow to be generated on the capital which was already injected to create Arma 2.

Edited August 14, 2009 by p75

[txalin 2]

Bah US again, always the US..

MEEEEEC!!! Error, read the thread and u will find the answer :)

[Deadfast 43]

Updated my list a little:

• The expansion will be called Operation Arrowhead (obvious ;))
  
• It will take place in Takistan, a fictional Middle Eastern country, 3 years after Harvest Red (ARMA 2 campaign)
  
• 2 screenshots: Apache and Local woman
  
• The BLUFOR side will include the US Army, there may be other members too.
  
• It will be stand-alone - you will not need the original ARMA 2 (think of Half-Life 2's Episodes)
  
• If you do have ARMA 2 you will be able to use all of its content (units, campaign, missions) in Op. Arrowhead - it should be backwards compatible
  
• Most of the improvements should be available for ARMA 2 in the form of free patch(es), this includes engine bug fixes
  
• More info will be known from the GamesCom that will take place between August 19 and August 23 2009 in Cologne, Germany (BIS should have their stand in Hall 04.2, booth L034 - part inaccessible for the general public - source), there will be another "surprise" we will learn from there
  
• The expansion is a joint effort by IDEA Games (BIS, Black Element Software, ALTAR Games)
  
• ALTAR has started working on the expansion in January 2009, later they have been joined by art designers from BIS. Programmers from BIS have joined them now too.
  

[LJF 0]

Listen, mate, no one is making you buy the expansion. Besides that, ...... it was clearly stated that you can use your Arma 2 contents, which a customer who is only buying Arrow Head, simply can't, because he misses the disc.

We all love this game series or else we wouldn't be posting here. The devs genuinely listen and conduct business at the same time. Is that so hard to understand? You get paid at work or not?

It is rather simple economics.

Economics is about choices, if you don't like it, don't buy it. You have a choice! But please stop bitching! It is the same as with everything consumer like. You buy a pair of Nikes and a few months later they have the same model slightly improved, no one will force you to buy the new model.

The dev said clearly that the expansion pack was already in development since January for your and my pleasure. The real world expects ETA to be made, and cash flow to be generated on the capital which was already injected to create Arma 2.

I was merely explaining why and how many people feel upset about a standalone expansion pack. I'm not saying that they should drop all of their money and just release free content or something, my point was this:

To have a successful business you need two things:

* A successful business

* Satisfied customers

If you fail to achieve either you will have neither - if you don't have money you won't be able to create a game, if you don't have satisfied customers you won't have money.

Please re-read my post, I don't think I was saying what you thought I was.

[Radnik 18]

Great news!...but

Why desert terrain again? (http://armedassault.info/ftp/pics/news/pics1/arma_II_operation_arrowhead_ingame_shot_02.jpg)

As BIS games fan since OpF i think ArmA 2 should have gone futher in engine development as it develops for 10 years now, it just bothers me arma 2 has same sliding-jumping tanks, no-weight objects and week phisics, please make real progres.

So keep up the good work BIS!, nice to see you are dedicated to your games!

[r3volution 0]

@Phleep: I'm well aware of the 3d editor in Arma2 and was actually under the impression that devs were saying it would be patched to functionality in a future Arma2 patch. I wasn't aware that we were going to be expected to cough up more money to use a functional version.

If this just runs though the arma2 exe in the same way as QG did then I'll feel better about it, but still, I'm unhappy about having to cough up a 'standalone' expansion amount of money in order to have a bunch of new units and a functional 3d editor.

LJF: I expected an expansion but neither this early nor an "expand alone" and although I look forward to new content and an authentic feeling theater I do feel kind of betrayed that I wasted money on a product that is already doomed to be forgotten (how long do you expect them to patch it/provide content?). I feel I should have waited for the "next game", a friend of mine likely feels the same way, he recently purchased ArmA2 and expected it to be a long term product, it only arrived a few days ago and now this news that it is to be obsolete? Neither I nor he would have purchased ArmA2 if we knew about this stand alone expansion.

QFT!

I'm annoyed because this was 'game 2', this was sold as the endgame and to have it replaced and fade into obscurity less than a year after release is giving the finger to the gamers who made arma2 one of the highest selling games on steam for a few weeks running, and especially those who stuck with BIS through the mess that was Arma1. Because they said that the next game would be the keeper, not the standalone expansion for the next game.

[Deadfast 43]

Why desert terrain again? (http://armedassault.info/ftp/pics/news/pics1/arma_II_operation_arrowhead_ingame_shot_02.jpg)

Again?

There was never a good-looking desert in BIS' game so far.

Well, other than the weird piece of Nogova and Sahrani which had an identity crisis :D

[Alex72 1]

I'm unhappy about having to cough up a 'standalone' expansion amount of money in order to have a bunch of new units and a functional 3d editor.

And vehicles and a campaign and a brand new island and new functions...

[SASrecon 0]

I hope this time they include animations for getting into and out of vehicles

[r3volution 0]

All things, please note that would have been released as mods for Arma2 by the community...

If Arma2 hadn't just been made obsolete. ;)

Seriously though. If they do something with the same scope as the original game then i won't mind paying the added cost that a standalone expansion justifies. It just feels rude retiring arm2 so early in the piece. Honestly, I'm more looking forward to the influx of good stuff that the community will make with the release of the new mod tools, but of course, I'm probably going to have to buy Arrowhead to play it, so I feel like if only they'd told us the Arma2 expansion would superseed arma2 (of course they wouldn't its terrible business) I'd have skipped it and waited to buy the expansion.

Edited August 14, 2009 by r3volution

[Deadfast 43]

I have yet to see a community-made island the quality of Chernarus.

[teaboy 11]

Listen, mate, no one is making you buy the expansion. Besides that, ...... it was clearly stated that you can use your Arma 2 contents, which a customer who is only buying Arrow Head, simply can't, because he misses the disc.

We all love this game series or else we wouldn't be posting here. The devs genuinely listen and conduct business at the same time. Is that so hard to understand? You get paid at work or not?

It is rather simple economics.

Economics is about choices, if you don't like it, don't buy it. You have a choice! But please stop bitching! It is the same as with everything consumer like. You buy a pair of Nikes and a few months later they have the same model slightly improved, no one will force you to buy the new model.

The dev said clearly that the expansion pack was already in development since January for your and my pleasure. The real world expects ETA to be made, and cash flow to be generated on the capital which was already injected to create Arma 2.

Being a businessman myself, i agree with what your saying P75. hence my previous post where i make it clear their business model is wrong. Customer statisfaction of a product comes first before profit, if you put profit first you end up making less money as your customers turn away from you due to lack of satisfaction. its an age old tried and tested means and alot of businesses, some of which happened to be my own competitiors have collapsed after putting profit before customer satisfaction and relations. In order to build a good strong business you need a business model where you can build a long term base of returning customers not just new ones, after all the returning cutomers are that backbone to you having a successful and profitable business. if you fail to build a long term returning customer base then your business is likley to fail

[Alex72 1]

And ARMA2 will only be obsolete if you dont want to play on Cherna and with the gear/vehicles etc that is in ARMA2. When Arrowhead comes i will definatelly play both. It will be nice to go desert for a week and forest a week. Same as having multiple islands since OFP. You dont play only 1 island with 1 army and the same gear.

Diversity.

[r3volution 0]

Alex I totally agree with you that diversity is the spice of life, its just that I'd thought it would be found in the community mods and not cost me another 50 bucks.