Why Arma 2 has a small market

[cjsoques 0]

Well im not a ignorant fanboy .... just google abit or better go to youtube and watch the videos from OFP2 ...

You cannot compare OFP2 with Arma 2 because both games are totaly different.

Arma 2 is a realistic military simulation and OFP2 is an arcade action shooter.

You originally sounded like what a previous poster stated:

Fair enough, this is how talks about these two games should be imo. And not "OMGZ DR IS THE WORST GAME EVER" or "OMG!! ARMA2 SUCKS SO BAD ITS TEH WORST OF ALL TIMEZ AND UNPLAYABLE!"

Both games have their merit and I have looked at all the videos recently released and read on their forum and in my opinion are quite impressive and go beyond your standard arcade shooter...that's just me though, you're entitled to your opinion. Not saying I am happy with many of the features announced so far but impressed from my previous low expectations of OFPDR.

Lastly, they aren't totally different at all, sure they are different in many ways but why are so many people comparing various features if they are so totally different as you put it.

Do your research before you start sounding like the above quote...I'm not supporting one or the other especially since OFPDR isn't even out yet let alone many of its details and to be honest I'll end up owning both when it's all done and over. Chill out.

[chops 111]

Maybe because it is not finished?

Can you imagine how many people would be whining if they told them about it?

BTW, they left sounds from OFP in ArmA too, is that in any way relevant?

Oh yes, the ever-whining, complaining customers. I'm sure BIS wishes they'd go away.:confused: I bet you 1000 internet points the 3D editor is never implemented in Arma2.

[cjsoques 0]

Oh yes, the ever-whining, complaining customers. I'm sure BIS wishes they'd go away.:confused: I bet you 1000 internet points the 3D editor is never implemented in Arma2.

I'll meet your 1000 internet points and raise you 5500 of mine, breaking the bank on confidence of this :)

They have bigger things right now than getting that together so yeah not for the foreseeable future is that happening.

[galzohar 31]

The game is published so bad it's not even funny. Calling the biggest computer/gaming network in Israel asking if they have Arma 2 yet would get them to say "Arma 2? We don't know of such thing, sorry." when they actually have that game on their shelves. Many people that I ask if they have seen it will also say something similar to the sales department of the aforementioned network. People just don't know about this game, and you can't buy something that you don't know exists.

Then those that do hear of it, the first thing they hear about is the bugs and compatibility issues, rather than how awesome the game is when it comes to the actual game.

While the attitude on the forums is indeed annoyingly hostile and elitiest, it most likely has very little to do with game sales. The grand majority of Arma 2 (or any other game for that matter) gamers don't even know what forums are or that these forums even exist.

Also, you should check the forums for Blizzard games. The attitude there is far worse. Here at least people are trying to be elitist, on the Blizzard forums it's straight up trolling for no real reason.

[Yapab 10]

I dont fully agree here, I saw many videos and diaries about ARMA2 before its release.. on their website they had updates and lots of info coming out every few weeks.

Advertising costs A LOT OF MONEY and you cannot compare BIS budget to CM budget... CM is huge... even if they release a new IP game they will still get lots of attention because casual gamers know they make good games.

BIS makes good games, but less of them and more ninche games, so they arent as well known.

Also lets not forget that CM have the "Operation Flashpoint" name which is a big thing... most people remember Operation Flashpoint and see OPFLASH2 as the true sequel.

I do agree more advertising would do the game good, but I dont think BIS could afford it, maybe then will for ARMA3 if it ever comes out?

Yapa

[connos 10]

Arma 2 was everywhere when upon release and it still is in some sites. http://www.gamesradar.com/pc/news

I didn't new about Arma but Arma 2 was everywhere and that made me preorder it. Even some people i know that never new about Arma call me to ask me what is this game called Arma 2 that is everywhere.

It was in top10 Steam sellers for weeks.

Edited August 13, 2009 by connos

[Herbal Influence 10]

And never forget:

Codemaster rides on the back of BI !

BI invented Operation Flashpoint twice: the game and the name ! (as far a I know)

Codemaster is just using the trademark to sell something like a bad copy of BI products.

Without the genious,the idealism and the philosophy of BI.

[Yapab 10]

A

Codemaster is just using the trademark to sell something like a bad copy of BI products.

Yes they are using the name to make sales and get people interested, but I dont agree about the "bad copy".... I hope the game is great and provides us with many hours of fun gameplay.

Were all gamers and the more games the better... I also think a bit of competition is a good thing :)

I have to say I like how OPF2 is going with a more squad / GRAW based approach to the campaign. I'm not a huge fan of controlling over 5 guys and tanks/planes etc... but I guess a lot of people do like that and thats why ARMA2 has this in the campaign later on.

Yapa

[ardvarkdb 104]

And never forget:

Codemaster rides on the back of BI !

BI invented Operation Flashpoint twice: the game and the name ! (as far a I know)

Codemaster is just using the trademark to sell something like a bad copy of BI products.

Without the genious,the idealism and the philosophy of BI.

Can you blame Codemasters? It's just good business to use a name that is well known, even if it's a different developer (which I think can be a good thing).

What I don't understand is all the hatred towards OF: DR. If OF: DR is a success, maybe it will make more developers look into more realistic military sims, which is a good thing for everyone. Currently Arma is the only real infantry milsim, with it's niche market, that most of my friends won't go near after playing it for 5 minutes b/c it's such a change from your average military fps (and it has some serious issues with controls / peformance / etc. but that is another issue). If OF: DR can make the more realistic military market more popular and get more people interested in more realistic military games than I say bring it on! Arma / Arma 2 might have had a small market, but if more people become interested than more publishers and more developers will be willing to put money into better milsim type games, which will increase their variety and quality (hopefully).

Edit: And I agree with Yapab. I'm happy to see another developer taking a shot at a military game. Bis has 3 games out now, so if you like the way they do it than fine. If the OF:DR team can do some things better, maybe it will help BI think about how they do things and make improvements as well.

Edited August 13, 2009 by ardvarkdb

[cjsoques 0]

And never forget:

Codemaster rides on the back of BI !

BI invented Operation Flashpoint twice: the game and the name ! (as far a I know)

Codemaster is just using the trademark to sell something like a bad copy of BI products.

Without the genious,the idealism and the philosophy of BI.

This is clearly turning into the close-minded discussion of why ARMA/BIS are the best and no one could ever do what they have done. No matter how hard any other developer tries.

ARMA1 or ARMA2 failed to achieve that acclaim that OFP was despite being made by the same guys...sure they lost the name but that should not matter if they make another set of quality products...didn't OFP get PC Gamer, Game of the Year?? ARMA1 or ARMA2 could never ever be in the running for that.

Just because CM took the name does not give excuse to the reduction in quality from OFP -> ARMA series.

OFP was successful and it didn't have a reputation before it. We don't know yet what OFPDR is really going to be like until we all play it and we don't know what amazing improvements BIS may or may not make to ARMA2.

if ARMA1 or ARMA2 had the quality on release that OFP had it would have assuredly attained Game of the Year and we wouldn't have an issue on sales.

[householddog 10]

I really don't think the game is all that accessible.

There are too many mods, (already) which means the online community is stretched thin.

Its too focussed on simulation rather than tactics. You are too involved in manipulating the interface.

The interface is hard to use without stopping.

There are some things, that should really be automatic, that are bound to keys.

Pub play is a shambles. The sandpit thing means that nobody is working towards a specific goal.

People were really pulled in by the graphics, but put off when it turned out their comp won't run it.

The people who asked for help, on this site, got slammed by fanboys. They in turn, told their friends, the game is full of a holes.

It can take up to 30 minutes before you can get into any sort of firefight.

[Herbal Influence 10]

Do you really need an explanation for why I don't like someone to use the original name for something he has lost all connection to?

CM - as far as I know - only (!) has the trademark and sells a product that hasn't a trace of the original game but can only be an attempt of a copy.

It might be correct in legal terms - CM sure has had a sharks lawyers office at hand.

Or do you see any other plausible reason a whole team of genious, innovative developers left/has to leave without the name of their own developed game?

[Placebo 28]

There's always room for improvement that's for sure, but to look at it the other way, the marketing costs for games like COD/BF mean they have to sell 3-5m units over all formats minimum just to break even, that's some scary stuff and way more pressure than I'd ever like to work under.

[MontyVCB 0]

I have to diagree a bit on the above comments, i went into gamestation yesterday, and ArmA2 was pretty much in your face, it was even on the poster. People will be buying ArmA2 a lot more over the enxt few days as it's right up in the charts at the moment, higher than i've seen it over the last few weeks.

Gotta agree there, infact ArmA2 has gone up in my local store's game chart. But there is some truth in the fact your average gamer is not into a soldier sim with a rather steep learning curve.

[cjsoques 0]

I really don't think the game is all that accessible.

There are too many mods, (already) which means the online community is stretched thin.

Its too focussed on simulation rather than tactics. You are too involved in manipulating the interface.

The interface is hard to use without stopping.

There are some things, that should really be automatic, that are bound to keys.

Pub play is a shambles. The sandpit thing means that nobody is working towards a specific goal.

People were really pulled in by the graphics, but put off when it turned out their comp won't run it.

The people who asked for help, on this site, got slammed by fanboys. They in turn, told their friends, the game is full of a holes.

It can take up to 30 minutes before you can get into any sort of firefight.

Nailed it...should be posted in BIS office, it's simple and short and exactly answers the thread topic :)

Excellent. Unbelievable. Brilliant

[Herbal Influence 10]

....

Just because CM took the name does not give excuse to the reduction in quality from OFP -> ARMA series. ...

.

There is no reduction of quality.

OF (and AA1) were quite buggy during the first three patches too.

This is due to the extreme complexity of these unique type of games.

They cannot be compared to other games because of their openess and use of artificial intelligence.

[ziiip 1]

All the fanboys with tunnel vision saying that OFP:DR is an arcady shooter are annoying... I've seen some vids from it and it pretty much seems you dont get to walk away from the fight after having taken handful of bullets. Plus in OFP:DR if you get shot, you gradually lose your blood if you dont get patched up. Moreover they have that HC mode that removes every HUD element from the screen.

On topic: just having CM as the publisher will draw attention.

Edited August 13, 2009 by ziiip

[cjsoques 0]

There is no reduction of quality.

OF (and AA1) were quite buggy during the first three patches too.

This is due to the extreme complexity of these unique type of games.

They cannot be compared to other games because of their openess and use of artificial intelligence.

It was a LONG time ago, but I do remember out-of-the-box finishing the entire OFP campaign without a problem at all...that's an indicator of quality right there.

Not possible in ARMA1 and because of that some people haven't even attempted campaign yet because they don't wanna have to do it all over after a major patch fixes the known issues keeping people from finishing the ARMA2 campaign.

Like I said, that was just my experience with OFP vs. ARMA

[Yapab 10]

Lets not forget that BIS also released a DEMO of ARMA2 quite a bit before the game was released... this was great and I bet it helped to sell a lot of copies.

It made people aware... why? Because demos are mirrored on thousands of gamer websites world wide! The demo was also very good, it had hours of gameplay!

In saying that, yes the normal type of advertising in magazines and reviews could have been better. I actually found out about ARMA2 through OPF2... after getting exicted about OPF2 announcement I did some forum reading and this lead me to ARMA2.

I never knew about ARMA1 which is sad... because I still have my copy of Operation Flashpoint here and loved the game back in 2001? I guess I never knew about ARMA1 because of 1) low advertising / marketing, 2) the name change and 3) I was out of gaming for a few years and into performance cars :)

Yapa

[Planck 1]

Demo of ArmA2 was released a while AFTER the game was released in Germany, so ... wrong.

I believe it was released a little while after the 505 release.

Planck

[Yapab 10]

Yes but the rest of the world got the demo before the game, so I think it would have helped :)

[cjsoques 0]

Lets not forget that BIS also released a DEMO of ARMA2 quite a bit before the game was released... this was great and I bet it helped to sell a lot of copies.

It made people aware... why? Because demos are mirrored on thousands of gamer websites world wide! The demo was also very good, it had hours of gameplay!

In saying that, yes the normal type of advertising in magazines and reviews could have been better. I actually found out about ARMA2 through OPF2... after getting exicted about OPF2 announcement I did some forum reading and this lead me to ARMA2.

I never knew about ARMA1 which is sad... because I still have my copy of Operation Flashpoint here and loved the game back in 2001? I guess I never knew about ARMA1 because of 1) low advertising / marketing, 2) the name change and 3) I was out of gaming for a few years and into performance cars :)

Yapa

Yeah I missed out on the ARMA1 release completely and have no idea how that happened. I didn't discover ARMA1 was out until around 1.08 release which is actually kind of a good thing cause at least i saw it at a somewhat mature state.

[txalin 2]

Don't think that arma series has a small market, it was on the top ten of steam, game, uk sales, play.com and blahdvd for a few weeks.

[Potatomasher 0]

Yeah I missed out on the ARMA1 release completely and have no idea how that happened. I didn't discover ARMA1 was out until around 1.08 release which is actually kind of a good thing cause at least i saw it at a somewhat mature state.

I bought german Arma1 soon as it was released digitally at Morphicon like i did with Arma2. I'm impatient person.

I remember i finished Arma1 campaign after one patch. It wasn't so bug infested like some of here have said. Only the performance was horrible, but you could actually finish the campaign without using end mission cheat. ;)

[Yapab 10]

Yeah I missed out on the ARMA1 release completely and have no idea how that happened. I didn't discover ARMA1 was out until around 1.08 release which is actually kind of a good thing cause at least i saw it at a somewhat mature state.

I was quite shocked by this too, i really wanted to play it but with so little time and with ARMA2 just around the corner I only tried the demo... which was version 1.06 and ren very very badly!

I was later told that the full game runs much better and after reading some patch notes I was happy that ARMA2 would be good too.

I think BIS did well with ARMA2, as the above poster says... it was top 10 on Steam for quite a while. Also steam is good advertising!

yapa