Analogue Throttle

[Viral.BadKarma 10]

KaBoNG/Andersson, Chopper questions for you;

So you have throttle mapped to your hardware, or increase/decrease thrust?

So if you are at a hover at 10m, you are telling me your hardware is at "10%", or is it at 50%?

I just feel, atleast with the x52 i only have 0%, 50% and 100%. I would really like to have 0 though 100.

Ka, i do agree, if you full throttle and nose down you can lose height...so it's collective is not the only contributing factor to height control.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Daniel M

[Evil_Echo 11]

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but was asked to look at this by BIS support.

Would like BIS to take another look at the matter, it seems the even with the latest patches for A2 and OA you get both brakes and throttle mapped onto one axis for CH Products sticks by default, giving you 0-50% brakes and 0-50% throttle.

While you could map the brakes to another axis ( really should be toe-brakes and spoilers, one for ground and one for air ), you're still left with the problem of extending the range(s). As best I can tell, that would require you to code a map for that axis using the controller's software features. Not especially trivial to do. Has anyone here attempted that? If so do share or provide a link the where the info can be found.

[9thAircav 0]

i believe the core problem with the issues being discussed here is that the original control concept for the helicopters has seen an analogue function added to work within its initial digital switch style constraints.analogue usage has been worked into the digital switch concept. its always going to be 0%..50%..100% untill BIS actually add analogue functionality, simply adding it in would probally wreck all AI functionality where aerial vehicles are concerned. This is one fix or overhaul i would love to see. presently there is no FM or flight model that actually pays attention to real life. It would be epic too experience one in ARMA2/OA.

[alef 0]

As best I can tell, that would require you to code a map for that axis using the controller's software features. Not especially trivial to do. Has anyone here attempted that? If so do share or provide a link the where the info can be found.

Yes but not with Saitek software. Mine is a solution that requires ppjoy.

[EDcase 87]

I don't understand the problem people are having with the throttle...?

With X52: (pull for power as per helicopter throttle)

Increase thrust >> pull back on throttle (+Z)

Decrease thrust >> push forward on throttle (-Z)

Gives me full analogue control over throttle response. (with no saitek or other software)

NOTE: Brake seems to activate automatically at 0 power.

Edited July 29, 2010 by EDcase

[9thAircav 0]

what people want is to use for e.g. 32% throttle then lets say 43% throttle. andany divisions other than throttle on 100% no throttle 50% brake 0% this is currently not possible. correct me if im wrong please. because it has been annoying since day one, i have x52pro and soon to have the thrustmaster warthog, its essential we get to use them properly on any milsims's irregardless of the digital nature apparent.

[EDcase 87]

Well it seems to work fine for me.

I can set any power level I want. I can hover and then move up or down VERY slowly by moving the throttle a tiny bit forward and back.

There are no flat spots or preset levels...

[Zorg_DK 10]

The throttle works very bad on my X52 Pro. The first range of the throttle does not do anything and the control is not precise.

Thumbs up for letting me choose what pedals i want for rudder on my G25 pedals though. That's the first sim I've tried where I could use the clutch as rudder left.

[das attorney 858]

Yes, BIS throttle is like a three point contact switch, either full, mid or off. I'd like it to be more like the throttle when I'm flying on X-Plane 9, eg rotary slider is 1/3 of the way up - I get 33% power. Fully proportional control vs on/off style at the moment.

I think they should map brakes to another input completely and separate them from the throttle.

It is good being able to use analogue pedals for the rudder though - really nice touch.

[Evil_Echo 11]

Allowing for separate axis would be ideal, next best would be getting full range of settings from the controller.

Right now, its

brake----|----thrust
50%      0        50%

for me at least. Not the best for flying in challenging conditions.

[IronTrooper 0]

Yes, BIS throttle is like a three point contact switch, either full, mid or off. I'd like it to be more like the throttle when I'm flying on X-Plane 9, eg rotary slider is 1/3 of the way up - I get 33% power. Fully proportional control vs on/off style at the moment.

I think they should map brakes to another input completely and separate them from the throttle.

It is good being able to use analogue pedals for the rudder though - really nice touch.

The throttle seems to behave analog for me, and there is a separate input for brakes in the settings.

[frederf 0]

I don't understand the problem people are having with the throttle...?

With X52: (pull for power as per helicopter throttle)

Increase thrust >> pull back on throttle (+Z)

Decrease thrust >> push forward on throttle (-Z)

Gives me full analogue control over throttle response. (with no saitek or other software)

NOTE: Brake seems to activate automatically at 0 power.

The only real control issue is that you can only assign "half axes" to analogue assignments. Meaning if you wanted to bind your entire "Q Axis" from -Q_Max to +Q_Max to throttle or brake or whatnot, you cannot. This squishes the control authority into only 50% of the axis range (-Max to 0 or 0 to +Max).

If you bind your throttle + "half axis" to thrust, then your throttle does nothing in the -Max to 0 range and from 0 to +Max that is where you get 0-100% control input.

Obviously in the real vehicle there is a control where the entire range 0-100% is mapped to a full physical axis (-Max to +Max). This is impossible in ArmA.

The issues with throttle and break control after the simulation gets a hold of the values is an entirely separate issue with how the flight model works, separate thrust and break systems, etc.

[Evil_Echo 11]

The only real control issue is that you can only assign "half axes" to analogue assignments. Meaning if you wanted to bind your entire "Q Axis" from -Q_Max to +Q_Max to throttle or brake or whatnot, you cannot. This squishes the control authority into only 50% of the axis range (-Max to 0 or 0 to +Max).

If you bind your throttle + "half axis" to thrust, then your throttle does nothing in the -Max to 0 range and from 0 to +Max that is where you get 0-100% control input.

Obviously in the real vehicle there is a control where the entire range 0-100% is mapped to a full physical axis (-Max to +Max). This is impossible in ArmA.

The issues with throttle and break control after the simulation gets a hold of the values is an entirely separate issue with how the flight model works, separate thrust and break systems, etc.

You nailed it exactly. While I might be able to manage some Jedi-like magic via the CH Products Control Manager to map my throttle axis to map the physical range of throw into the 128-255 band to simulate a full axis, that's not something I or anyone else should have to do. Nor is a solution for people with non-programmable controllers.

[lt_darkman 0]

I just can't see any other solution would work as well as just having the brakes and throttle on different axes.

Surely this is not a difficult change for BIS to make?

P

[slimSpencer 10]

hmm... did you try dxtweak2?

i just set my throttle (min 0, max 255, cen 128) to (min 0, max 255, cen 255). That way, i can use the full throttle range on my joystick, but it only reports "50 - 100%" to ArmA2 or any other game.

[TheHarvesteR 11]

Allowing for separate axis would be ideal, next best would be getting full range of settings from the controller.

Right now, its

brake----|----thrust
50%      0        50%

for me at least. Not the best for flying in challenging conditions.

Exactly. This is what is happening with the Thrust/Brakes (analogue) command, and it's easy to see why it's a problem... it's eating away half your throttle range...

I've reread this thread, and saw my own replies here from when this update was first introduced... How bitter of me :D

Anyways, just wanted to inform everyont that I've come up with a solution to this problem... it's not an official (or even pretty) solution, but it works... I have my throttle mapped to the full range of the throttle lever, and the brakes on a separate axis.

Here's the thread: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=108410&page=5

Hope this helps

Cheers

[wipman 1]

Hi, as keyboard user + mouse use & owner of a wheel + ruders... i think that the analogic (progressive) throttle & brake will be great; auto-detected by your settings (keyboard + mouse = slow, normal & fast on the keys[max or to the max]) & keyboard + mouse + wheel (joy or pad) should able you to map booth throttle & brake as progressive. That's what i think that will be the best. Let's C ya

[Herbal Influence 10]

Why can't it be that simple and effective like in the ol' OFP-days?

I had full analogue control over everything ....

Nowadays I am flying up and down because I (only keyboard-and-mouse purist!) can only give "full commands" (rudder left, rudder right, rudder up, rudder down).

Whereas I can control ... in quite a strange way .. the throttle only: Long pressing of button: low throttle, long pressing of other button: high throttle ... that would work IF there would be any hint in the vehicles at what % of throttle I am at the moment ....

[enforcer1975 0]

Your fault for using the mouse and keyboard only. The air vehicles and ground vehicles ( driver ) are meant to be used by pad or stick for accurate maneuvers.

In OFP you had a ground following system where you didn't have to adapt to every bump or hill the map had. Quite easy when flying helos in those days.

It's gone know afaik and i like it this way ( fanatic pad driver and trackir user ). Now i can fly the way I want to and not how the game makes me.

[Herbal Influence 10]

I see no connection to the ground following system?

How to steer thingies got nothing to do with that?