I need this statement explained.

[Lincoln1stFJ 10]

This was in the init of the latest Chernarus Life.

COPYRIGHT = "Script by Issetea and Fewo. For more information visit www.rp-mods.com. Do not modify.";

I'd really like the opinion of BI on this.

Can a community member "copyright" code that you own?

Also, what is your opinion on servers running a monopoly on missions / scenarios with licensee-copyrighted mission code?

Thanks

[knicked 10]

loool so rp-mods.com is copyrighting isseta's script if so how sad so much for open-source

[-TW- Quintus 10]

Everthing they modify or script within the game intself is property of Bohemia.

[Akilez 10]

Everthing they modify or script within the game intself is property of Bohemia.

Word!

[Murklor 10]

Indeed. Copyrighting scripts is alltogether worthless. Will the original creators be happy if you dont include their name? Maybe not. Will the original creators drag you into civil court? Somehow I dont think so.

In short: modify all you want. They can in no way enforce their copyright. In the end, a script is just a line telling the game what to do.

[rocket 9]

Well, yes and no. The community here decided that authorship is very important to us, and BIS has agreed. Hence, the forums and the community itself enforce authorship. Anyone who doesn't respect authorship will quickly find themselves shunned from the very community they're trying to be part of.

I generally don't use the term "copyright" in these settings, because it is outdated and has many connotations. Authorship feels more appropriate to me. I think that many mission makers have the reasonable request that others don't simply modify their map slightly and release it, as otherwise the community becomes flooded with small variants. I wouldn't read to much into things beyond that.

[Lincoln1stFJ 10]

"Taking" the mission and slapping your name on it is one thing.

The other is allowing the rest of the community to host the mission so people in the US can play it - so it can spread.

The only different on the "official" server is $10 paychecks and pay $200,000 for a map, and wicked advantage for the cop role. As I saw on their server earlier, someone wanted to rename it "A COP LIFE 1.02."

That has got to tell the devs something.

Expecting the entire RPG ArmA community to play on the office (draconian) server is a kick in the face to everyone who purchased the game.

Community devs are supposed to make content for the community; not wave their mission authorship in the face of people wanting to play it.

That's just dick.

Claiming complete ownership of open source software is stupid and is detrimental to the community.

The PBO isn't "encoded" - its just arranged very sloppy to prevent THE COMMUNITY from having more fun than the original devs...that is, if you call fun $10 paychecks when every element of their prized possess costs an astronomical amount of money...or spend 4 weeks getting enough $ to buy a skoda.

...unless you're a cop. Then you're set to get awesome e-peenie paychecks.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Lincoln1stFJ

[JaKe.OnE 10]

Do you really think we used the ingame editor of ArmA 2?

Stop blaming our community only because you cannot accept property of other players and their work!

We have a stat-saving system and there is no problem that we higher the prices. The only thing you try is running us down and it shows only your grief and envy.

I have no idea WHY you are trying to start a foxhunt against us, but the more I read your postings which are all against us, I am sure you got cought by one of our Server Operators and your ID is now on the ban list. I am sure you are no Samaritan and this here is just frantic vendetta.

If you would check our forums and news page more carefully, you would recognize a few things:

- We are having still a beta period. We are changing and trying a few things. That you are banned on our servers still not change the facts,

- we have a stats saving system, so why not lifting the prices so not everyone gets a million within 8 hrs?

- we are working on a system so cops and civs have different current, resp. do not have the same bank account like civs.

So what's your porblem? Where is the problem when cops get more money? Yes, NOW, ATM there is a problem, but it is still beta.

Try to sort out your life and stop running down beautiful missions only because you made "special" experiences.

Everyone [who is not banned], is still invited to play our beta @ www.rp-mods.com

Regards,

Jake

[Lincoln1stFJ 10]

Do you really think we used the ingame editor of ArmA 2?

Stop blaming our community only because you cannot accept property of other players and their work!

You don't get it. Players don't have property of this code. None of it.

We have a stat-saving system and there is no problem that we higher the prices. The only thing you try is running us down and it shows only your grief and envy.

Why won't you share the mod with the community instead of expecting everyone to play on your server which is located 1000s of miles away from a huge playerbase?

I have no idea WHY you are trying to start a foxhunt against us, but the more I read your postings which are all against us, I am sure you got cought by one of our Server Operators and your ID is now on the ban list. I am sure you are no Samaritan and this here is just frantic vendetta.

Vendetta as a result of what? Think logically, and from the perspective of a common player. And think "How could we best serve & benefit of the entire ArmA II community" and not how best to serve your own interests. I started nothing that was already common talk amongst the A2 RPG playerbase.

If you would check our forums and news page more carefully, you would recognize a few things:

- We are having still a beta period. We are changing and trying a few things. That you are banned on our servers still not change the facts,

While I understand beta, bugs, and dev cycles, I yawn at your e-flex regarding a ban. I could go on and on about bugs in your mission but I know they will eventually get fixed. They would get fixed sooner if you let the community work on them, and that's a fact.

- we have a stats saving system, so why not lifting the prices so not everyone gets a million within 8 hrs?

Why not let the community have fun with the scenario and enable long term play for other servers? - not just your niche community of people who enjoy playing cops but the community as a whole?

- we are working on a system so cops and civs have different current, resp. do not have the same bank account like civs.

Great? - still doesn't help the issue. Why don't you create a poll on these forums?

Should ArmA-RPG release the

entire

package of CL

Core

so the community can enjoy it?

...because right now it's enjoyable to a vary narrow playerbase, and limited to Europeans with Est US sometimes being able to play.

So what's your porblem? Where is the problem when cops get more money? Yes, NOW, ATM there is a problem, but it is still beta.

Try to sort out your life and stop running down beautiful missions only because you made "special" experiences.

Have you not been reading? This isn't an opportunity for you to deliver ad hominem attacks on me because you disagree with my valid opinion, which is shared by many. Your attempt to troll only reinforces my snob observation.

Everyone [who is not banned], is still invited to play our beta @ www.rp-mods.com

Regards,

Jake

That's pretty sad that you'd ban me for voicing my opinion on ridiculous practices.

There are other, more fun places to play so I am not moved an inch. If I am banned from your Utopian (Fargo?) server then I don't mind being martyred to cast some light on the ridiculousness of your instruments of control. It's not like your server is very playable.

So, since you played table tennis with the ego, it's my turn. When are you going to release the full source and let the entire ArmA II community enjoy your mission? It's about the only way you'd ever get back into my good graces and avoid pissing off the playerbase.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Lincoln1stFJ

[JaKe.OnE 10]

You don't get it. Players don't have property of this code. None of it.

...said a player.

I am still waiting for an official word from BIS. You want the code, sure, I understood this.

But as long as BIS do not say we MUST release the code, it will stay our own, not shared with the community which removes the original credits and not with anyone else who think he do it better than alone.

Additionally: we do not want to provide the code. The stat saving system is much more complicated than you can imagine. And doing the whole day server set up is not my job in the internet.

It works fine how it is, and it works this way since Operation Flashpoint 1. :)

Should ArmA-RPG release the entire package of CL Core so the community can enjoy it?

WTF?

We are not arma-rpg. Do we are talking about the same community? ArmA-RPG is a complete different community. :)

That's pretty sad that you'd ban me for voicing my opinion on ridiculous practices.

Nope, you are not banned. But the way you are talking in the forums sounds like you had a meeting with one of our exec-ban-Server Operators. :)

You are still free to play on our server, except you are banned (-then it is not possbiel to visit our server).

[rocket 9]

Crikey guys. What drivel.

If Jake and his crew what to try and protect their code/maps/and etc, well, good on them. Personally, I think its pointless, unenforceable, and doesn't help the community. But it's his choice.

Lincoln1stFJ, it's not that amazingly hard to either de-pbo the mission, or to make your own. Saving/loading in multiplayer is pretty straightforward in ArmA2 thanks to a much improved architecture for multiplayer syncronization.

The beauty of this community, is that if there is a market for this kind of map and someone isn't meeting that market - then someone else will. Taking this kind of "dispute" the forum's aint gonna make any difference, other than making both of you look unprofessional at least.

I make all my addons and scripts public, provide source to anyone with a half-respectable project who asks politely. I only offer my services to groups that operate to the same code, I know many here who think the same. But everyone is entitled to their choice, respect that choice. I'm sure those boys put alot of hard work into that project, and they're trying to protect that.

[dustoff 0]

Crikey guys. What drivel.

If Jake and his crew what to try and protect their code/maps/and etc, well, good on them. Personally, I think its pointless, unenforceable, and doesn't help the community. But it's his choice.

Lincoln1stFJ, it's not that amazingly hard to either de-pbo the mission, or to make your own. Saving/loading in multiplayer is pretty straightforward in ArmA2 thanks to a much improved architecture for multiplayer syncronization.

The beauty of this community, is that if there is a market for this kind of map and someone isn't meeting that market - then someone else will. Taking this kind of "dispute" the forum's aint gonna make any difference, other than making both of you look unprofessional at least.

I make all my addons and scripts public, provide source to anyone with a half-respectable project who asks politely. I only offer my services to groups that operate to the same code, I know many here who think the same. But everyone is entitled to their choice, respect that choice. I'm sure those boys put alot of hard work into that project, and they're trying to protect that.

cant do that rocket.

They call a few scripts that reside on a seperate directory on their server . these scripts are not in the pbo but are called in one of 400 small scripts they scattered in the pbo.

Shame they really could share this by just adding a few lines of code that require a user name password to access the files and data base on ther server. they would retain compplete control of the missions and stats .

I do it for two other source mods with no problems .

[JaKe.OnE 10]

cant do that rocket.

They call a few scripts that reside on a seperate directory on their server . these scripts are not in the pbo but are called in one of 400 small scripts they scattered in the pbo.

Shame they really could share this by just adding a few lines of code that require a user name password to access the files and data base on ther server. they would retain compplete control of the missions and stats .

I do it for two other source mods with no problems .

When it is just that simple, feel free to do it also.

Have a nice day.

And for the players who want saved stats NOW, they are still invited to our beta test in our community. :)

The link is in my signature.

Jake

[weegee_101 0]

Rocket is right. Bohemia Interactive respects authorship of missions and addons, and they even go so far as to defend mission and addon makers when someone steals their work for another mission or addon. Copyright is a bad term because copyright DOES limit the distribution, but BIS has come out and stated that everyone has a right to say that they don't want their mission modified. The majority of the community agrees. Many do say that its ok to use or modify their scripts if you dePBO the file as well.

Claiming complete ownership of open source software is stupid and is detrimental to the community.

Code isn't Open Source until its been licensed as Open Source. Just because code is easily accessible does not mean that its Open Source.

[Lincoln1stFJ 10]

Code isn't Open Source until its been licensed as Open Source. Just because code is easily accessible does not mean that its Open Source.

Alright, yet for all intents and purposes, we use the code as an open source license would allow, practically speaking.

Personally, I think its pointless, unenforceable, and doesn't help the community.

I'm glad we agree on this because it's my major point.

The beauty of this community, is that if there is a market for this kind of map and someone isn't meeting that market - then someone else will. Taking this kind of "dispute" the forum's aint gonna make any difference, other than making both of you look unprofessional at least.

Asides from posting on the forums; how else are players supposed to communicate with the community?

Telepathy?

I make all my addons and scripts public, provide source to anyone with a half-respectable project who asks politely. I only offer my services to groups that operate to the same code, I know many here who think the same. But everyone is entitled to their choice, respect that choice. I'm sure those boys put alot of hard work into that project, and they're trying to protect that.

I respect hard work and perceived ownership, no matter how feeble.

I am stating that there is huge demand for a stat saving CL package that a trusted server admin can run on their server.

So why not give the community what it wants?

[rocket 9]

Well, if it were me. I'd send a real polite request to the rp-mod guys, asking to try and setup a server in other areas. I'm sure they would be keen to setup servers for other areas. Assuming they were, they would want to carefully manage that.

Arguing with them here, well, regardless of whether you have a point or not... I don't really think it achieves anything positive. In fact, it probably proves to the rp-mod team why they should keep things really close to their chest.

[weegee_101 0]

I am stating that there is huge demand for a stat saving CL package that a trusted server admin can run on their server.

So why not give the community what it wants?

That's a splendid point. There is nothing stopping anyone else from doing the same thing. This is a copyright we're talking about, not a patent.

I'm curious though, how is RP-MODs achieving the stats saves?

Arguing with them here, well, regardless of whether you have a point or not... I don't really think it achieves anything positive. In fact, it probably proves to the rp-mod team why they should keep things really close to their chest.

I've got to agree. The main reason that people are so protective in this community is that during the Operation Flashpoint days there was a period of mission makers rampantly stealing other's work, modifying it a bit, then posting it as their own.

[Lincoln1stFJ 10]

If no one actually benefits financially then what's the big deal if someone uses it to create something different?

Saying "I made this" -vs- "I modded this?"

If every decision for a greater good was A /= B, nothing would ever get accomplished.

Besides, imitation is the single best form of flattery. I'd revel in the fact that the community is itching to enjoy my scenario and would do everything in my power to ensure the community was served.

Instead they are worried about evil masterarray.sqf boogiemen who will change the paycheck amount from $10 to $1000 and alter the "copyright" notice on line one of every single script.

I just don't buy the 'protecting' our mission crap. I find the notion of controlling freely available code an impossibility, and thus laughable.

So lemme get this straight - we can't use the discussion forums to discuss this?

Why exactly?

[rocket 9]

I dunno, do whatever you want I guess. My suggestion would be, the best result would come from reasoning with the rp-mod team to achieve your aims. If you can't beat em, join em!

[JaKe.OnE 10]

I just do not understand the problem here.

You can play our missin for free. Why are you make so much trouble because you cannot get the code?

Are you so much interested in modifying it that you create a topic just for our case? I am moved to tears, but really, where is the problem?

You have already a leaked version and you already said you are enjoying this mission more than our. So why do you want our code?

We do not make it public, even when the universe starts to shrink.

You are free to join our server, if you are not interested in playing our mission, then not. Easy solution.

Issetea and Fewo (you called them "snops") spent more than 5 yrs for the development. They begun with OpFlash and since this the code is closed. So why we should change it? Because 50 players are playing a bugged Sahrani Life 1.25 for ArmA 2? We have our playerbase and every player who likes our mission is welcomed to our forums and server as member. This way is neither a crime, nor worth a discussion.

We had much problems with ArmA-RPG and we do not want a repeat of this event.

[rocket 9]

I just do not understand the problem here

I don't entirely understand it either, but I think he did make a valid point about opening up a server in another area of the world. So, those who have big pings to the current one can go somewhere with good ping.

I think, the solution to that, is for people who can offer to host such maps - to politely approach yourself and offer their services.

[JaKe.OnE 10]

I see there no problem, too.

Sure, we can open a server for the US-player, but the the Russian and australien players want some pieces of this cake too.

And this besides, would we have a reliable, trusted fried "over there", we would already have a server.

But the guys of ArmA-RPG where also friends and we trusted them. But now we are just be disappointed by them, so we concluded this way we are now using.

If anyone of you would suffer this way, I am very sure this one would act exactly like we do it now.

Sorry to say. We like our work and we are not willed to provide other communities the best bugfixes and one of the most played missions when the code gets removed, the mission edited without checking the condissions (even "just" altering the paycheck is an edit!) and blaiming us in their own forum (like already happened more than 3 times).

We do not know who is with us or with them, so we do just trust no one. It is easy for us and really more relaxed than to be annoyed about the ignorance, envy, destructive frenzy, anti-social behavior and disrespect.

Sure, taunters could now say "hey, you are even actling like this way". Yes, we have choosed this way to protect our work and this is fully legal.

And as I said, BIS is owning the code commands, but not the code. This is fully our intelectual property and no EULA can change this.

You are still wondering why Issetea or Fewo do not help you?

You called them snob and only god knows what you are think about them really. But their behavior to you are just a reflection of YOUR thoughts!

Respect them, and they will respect you. Respect their work and they will help you!

Cheers!

Edited August 5, 2009 by JaKe.OnE

[knicked 10]

I can not play because my internet doesnt like me playing on Native Servers

And you can get Stat saving by a mysql server

[JaKe.OnE 10]

I have no idea what mySQl and your internet connection has to do with this topic, but I try to answer, but nvm.

We are not using mySQL and notwithstanding, we are able to save the stats. We are using the statssaving system since ArmA 1 and Sahrani Life version 1.40 (Friday, May 30th 2008, 9:30pm).

When it is that simple with mySQL, then enjoy the stat-saving on other servers!

[knicked 10]

Fair enough just saying that mysql can be used to get stat saving features

and my internet connection what im trying to say is that i cannot connect to your server there for it would please me if i could use this on lan but its not going to happen so :(