PVP, TVT Gaming (good post)

[Tom_Anger 0]

Many appologies for yet anyother post regarding Player vs Player or Team vs Team, but I want to try and help those who are getting frustrated or losing hope in the efforts to get gamers together to fight against each other in competitive games. I would think many are new to ARMA or others were hoping that Player vs Player would have increased. In my opinion - Yes it could be better, but I believe things are going smooth and all will turn out in the end.

Some of these players will join a server, not know what to do when they join and just give up. I know because I was there back in 07 through 08 with ARMA 1. Some folks aren't seeing much consistency with games being hosted or they are just confused and don't have the patience. For some groups this game is new and some are looking to see what they can host to make this a fun experience.

My simple suggestion is to hang in there and look for basic gametypes or look for clans/groups that are involved with these types of games. More than not those people will want to help work with you so that you understand it all. Then you will feel the love :D

Gamemodes I recommend are:

• HOLD - (i.e. Berzerk Capture & Hold) or as some recall from other games this could be like a Team King Of The Hill gameplay. You have a very cool interface that can be used during the game and all you do is move out to the few bases that exist and figure out how you will clain the area yours to gain points. The team with the most points at the end wins. (if you are confused, ask someone for help and you will see how nice it is)
  
• AAS - Advance & Secure - Both teams start a distance away with a few bases separating them. Both teams head to the neutral areas and it becomes a tug of war until time expires. BLUFOR captures bases in alphabetical order as OPFOR heads in reverse alphabetical order. It is simple to play and great to be in a group that communicates to see who will attack bases and who will defend.
  
• CRCTI/WARFARE - This is a combination of coop and MP and honestly is a great way to work as a team to build an army, move up the maps, and have a great long lasting battle. There is alot to this style of gameplay, but I highly recommend new folks find a group that will work with them and learn it.
  
• AAD - Attack & Defend/Search & Destroy - Some are working on these games and I may write some as well. Each team starts with the desision on how they will approach this gameplay. Setup and hide, lay down satchels, etc. Wait for the attacking team and take them out 1 by 1. Keep your area secure for the time to expire and you win.
  
• TDM - Team Deathmatch - I have yet to see any good TDM maps out there and would like to see the game's TDM be available for dedicated servers to host. The ones that are out there are not that great and I believe I've tried them all. These need to be simple - starting spawn with weaponry, move and kill for points. Anyone who goes overboard to add stuff could turn new ARMA players away so when I write these they will be simple in nature for fun.
  
• CTF - Capture The Flag - Not for me, but some enjoy it so maybe I will give this a go some day. It does offer competitive Close Quarter Combat with the right maps. I've seen some weird ones with tents all over the place which looks very unrealistic so look for the good ones and stick with those.
  DM - Deathmatch - this is a kick around game for a small group for fun.
  

Key is consistency I think, but on occasion, mix it up with these types of games.

I hope I have given some hope to people. I am not here to recruit players and would like to see the clans that are all for PVP, TVT communicate with each other and form some sort of (alliance for the lack of a better term) so that many of us can buidl this type of gaming to where many would like to see it.

If anyone needs help understanding any of these games I will gladly take the time to go over them with you. I have been around and back with ARMA gaming and honestly am all for PVP, TVT, but also enjoy occasional coops wth friends.

There's my say in the matter. Happy gaming all...

[uRC]FATMAN

Founder, admin, http://urclan.org

Edited July 20, 2009 by Tom_Anger
Minor edit

[SpecterM 10]

I couldn't agree more.

This game play is a lot of fun and simple to learn.:bounce3:

[Murklor 10]

Hey, writing (good post) in the thread title when you are the poster of the thread is called a biased opinion ;)

Its rather useless without any suggestions for good missions using said gameplay modes...

[galzohar 31]

Probably because all missions are still pretty much a work in progress...

What we do need is some "standard" mission for each type which can then be modified. Especially the assault missions need a good un-abuseable spectator script, win/loss handling, weapon selection saving, score saving etc. Right now the best I could make (which don't include any of these as I have no idea how to make them) is http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=80136

[Inkompetent 0]

I just wonder in the definition of Warfare and crCTI, why 'coop' differs from multiplayer. How is coop less multiplayer than PvP?

[Snelz 10]

great post! what a game! still needs some work / updates but im glad they have released it as is for now ;) least we get to play it, have had many good nights playing the game so far.

[walker 0]

Hi all

I think half the "PvP is dieing!" concern headlines are just trolls. Though I think many former COD players and the like are suddenly presented with freedom in game play and do not know what to do. They remind me of monkeys who have been trapped in the COD cage so long that all they can do is run around in circles.

I have always though that other FPS were prisons for the mind I think a lot of TK griefer activity we saw when ArmA II hit different markets was just that. Mad monkeys running around in the bases killing everything in the little square of the spawn because that is what they are used to. :(

Still they seem to be getting over it but I think there is probably a paper in it for some psychologist.

Posting a descriptions of different PvP modes as you have Tom_Anger is excellent. I will link to it from the stickied Manuals post.

Kind Regards walker

[galzohar 31]

As far as I can tell, this is what's going through a man's mind before he TKs in a base:

"Where am I?" (starting location not always specified on the mission's map)

"What am I supposed to do? Where's the action?" (didn't realize he needs to click the flag to teleport to MHQ or to take a hummvee and drive up to the action)

"Hmm there's nothing around here..." (of course there isn't, that's your spawn, but I suppose you don't know how to get out of there)

"OK I'm bored, let's shoot stuff and see what happens." (as a last resort before quitting)

As you can see, the above has nothing to do with other games. It's just bad mission design combined with lack of explanations from most players on the servers combined with someone who just starts shooting stuff when he doesn't know what to do. As far as I can tell, this combination of stuff is very common, at least on the huge COOP missions and some huge PvP missions.

EDIT: Obviously as time passes and ppl get a clue (or give up and quit) those issues get significantly reduced, but it's no excuse for making a mission with absolutely no explanations of what to do.

Edited July 17, 2009 by galzohar

[walker 0]

Hi all

The OP's reason for this thread and why the forums are here; is to explain the ethos in ArmA II to people, I posted a thread linking to manuals for the same reason.

That said the Griefer/TK activity has declined a lot almost in proportion to the increase in the number and size of ArmA servers.

Kind Regards walker

Edited August 1, 2009 by walker

[BCA Cat Toaster 10]

Hi all!

I love to play AAS in ArmA2, but the main problem is: Everyone wants to find a server with already someone playing on it but if no one starts the party, nobody will follow. So some players start complaining threads that there are no PvP servers or no one is playing on them.

This means, if i am starting alone on a server chances are nearly zero that someone is gonna join and stay for more than three minutes. If we are joining with four or six players of our team it will need still one hour until we have 16+ players. Until reached that "checkpoint" we´ll get another 16 players whithin half an hour and then the server will constantly be full until the early morning hours. Of course, I don´t purely enjoy the first hour of gameplay (its frustrating sometimes!) with a low amount of players, but it must be done to enjoy the fun of having 32 players later on.

What i want to say: If you see no one playing your favorite mode, be the first one starting it and you if you see just one or two players, be the next one in right that moment. If you prefer saying: "Not enough players atm, i´ll check back later" chances will be high, that "later on" there is no one play with.

I guess that´s pretty much the same in any mp-game, but ArmA2 offers so much more game-types to play for a smaller community compared with more-casual-(or popular)games like CoD or BF. So a small number of players in ArmA2 is splitting up to this large number of game-mods and mods, so there might not be enough players for all of them. All that complex flexibilty of ArmA2 seems to be a curse at the same time if you want anytime "Instant-Action" with your favorite gametype.

[whisper 0]

This means, if i am starting alone on a server chances are nearly zero that someone is gonna join and stay for more than three minutes. If we are joining with four or six players of our team it will need still one hour until we have 16+ players. Until reached that "checkpoint" we´ll get another 16 players whithin half an hour and then the server will constantly be full until the early morning hours. Of course, I don´t purely enjoy the first hour of gameplay (its frustrating sometimes!) with a low amount of players, but it must be done to enjoy the fun of having 32 players later on.

Not always happening like that.

Yesterday I joined on my server where 4 people were connected.

It took a lil while (15 minutes, I'd say) to have around 10.

Then it bursted in no time. Next mission (server is rotating AAS maps), we were 50 players :)

[walker 0]

Hi all

Survey of the public servers last night shows about 6 x 50 to 60 player servers and more 30 player servers than 1 screen can show all FULL.

There was about 30% 70% PvP coop split. Several Berzerk servers, 2 playing CTF various other PvP a fair number user made coops a lot of domination and longest Day 3 or 4 evolution servers.

Of course this ignores all the private hidden and locked clan servers. They are playing their own missions types and people can of course look in the Clans and Squads section of the forum to find a clan they can join that plays the style of mission they like.

Kind Regards walker

Edited April 8, 2010 by walker

[galzohar 31]

The solution to the "server is empty so it stays empty" problem is having a good admin (or script?) that will swap the mission based on how many players are in the server. When it's empty run a mission that works fine with 6-10 players, and once it fills up rotate the map to something bigger so more players can join. A self-expanding map would be even more awesome, but until those start showing up server admins have to take up the task of map switching if they want their empty servers populated. If you run a map that doesn't work well with less than 30 players, don't expect players to join when your server is empty while another server has 20/60.

Of course it's also up to the mission makers to make smaller scale missions.

[walker 0]

Hi all

The best way to fill your server is to offer it as a clan training and recruitment server. You will often also get access to the clans missions and mission authors, as well as a ready made audience and all the clans links to other networks of players.

Many of the smaller clans cannot afford two servers one for clan matches and training and one for recruiting.

Kind Regards walker

[TAW_T-Bone 10]

very good read - we are really looking into the TvT and PvP game mode.

What i am still looking for is missions. I know on armaholic you can find them but for some reason i find that limited to only what armaholic website likes.

Does these forums have a place where all missions per different mode are writing out? I couldn't find them - still hope i missed it somewhere.

[Tom_Anger 0]

When I get my missions 100% where I want them I will make a post at Armaholic as well as BI Forums.

TDM scoring is a bit bugged, but still fun. I am working on a pack of maps that will entertain DM, TDM, CH, and maybe 1 or 2 others. One favored gametype I want to perfect is what some know as

Hamburger Hill or Team King Of The Hill

Basically it is as follows:

1 Balanced ZONE where teams fight to control it. The team that can hold it the longest wins. Take that one step further and make the mission size small enough so that it becomes a firefight where each team is setting perimiters to protect the zone and you have yourself a nice round of gaming. Take that another step and add indestructable AI spawn protectors so that folks don't rape the spawns.

By having them small you don't get upset when you die and respawn because you know you'll be back in the action almost immediately. Also with missions like these people may want to practice running through them on their own to find good hiding locations for protection...

They have random Jets that will perform fly overs just for effect, zones have realistic looking designs with sandbags, busted vehicles, etc and more.

The missions are very much playable, but I am not ready to deliver to armaholic yet. I want to make sure I fine tune some areas for balancing and stuff. Feel free to check them out on the Urban Resistance: PVP/TV server.

TDM16 SAUSAGE TOWN

TDM16 DEPOT STATION

TDM16 TOWN BEACH

TDM16 URBAN RESISTANCE

CH16 SAUSAGE TOWN

CH16 DEPOT STATION

CH16 TOWN BEACH

CH16 URBAN RESISTANCE

Edited September 2, 2009 by Tom_Anger
minor edit

[sbsmac 0]

The latest beta patch claims to have fixed the MP score issues ! :)

[58930] Fixed: Broken kill scoring in MP (two points for unit kill).

[Tom_Anger 0]

The latest beta patch claims to have fixed the MP score issues ! :)

[58930] Fixed: Broken kill scoring in MP (two points for unit kill).

That is good news.

[BoxiouS 10]

As far as I can tell, this is what's going through a man's mind before he TKs in a base:

I agree with most of what you said, i'm not into tk'ing (though it has happened a couple of times accidentaly and i was quick to apologise) but when you first join a multiplayer server it's daunting. With regards to what you've stated...

"Where am I?" (starting location not always specified on the mission's map)

but i can see that there are quite a few people here so (depending on difficulty setting) i'll bring up my map and look for a collection of friendlies in one place. If my name isn't stated then i'll click units and if i don't already know, i know now that i'm 'Charlie' and look for the 'C'. I'll also spend a while getting my bearings on the map screen and looking at the briefing and any notes if i haven't already. Now is a good time to hook up with the TS server, even if i don't have a mic (or have one and can't get the bloody thing to work:mad:) it will still be invaluable in gathering intel about enemy positions/tactics and awareness.

"What am I supposed to do? Where's the action?" (didn't realize he needs to click the flag to teleport to MHQ or to take a hummvee and drive up to the action)

by this time i've spent a while at base and seen people come and go, i've checked out the area from above and decided if it's teleport time, worth waiting for the chopper, grabbing or jumping into an occupied vehicle, or just hot-footing it to the action (at least if i'm on foot, then i can dictate the pace there's no-one else to blame if i get killed without making a difference)

"Hmm there's nothing around here..." (of course there isn't, that's your spawn, but I suppose you don't know how to get out of there)

if this is still the case then Popcap games are for me.

"OK I'm bored, let's shoot stuff and see what happens." (as a last resort before quitting)

Has to be one of the most annoying things about this game. I was on a server watching a bored soldier shooting at birds whilst wating for the transport to land, and through some crazy form of flock mentality a couple more joined him and then one started shooting the other and, well, you know how it ends.

I agree that there are some missions in MP that have no explanation at all, and if it's your first time out, it can be frustrating (made even worse if you stumble upon a server on Expert difficulty) but Arma requires patience, and that makes the satisaction all the more palpable, but, other than beginners servers that are guaranteed to be on recruit, with people ready and willing to help with all manner of questions, no doubt answering the same ones over and over. I don't see any other way of people learning the game, other than spending time with the editor and scenarios to learn the weapons, ballistics and squad movements, and grabbing a jet and flying for a few hours over the landscape to learn the layout. (which is great fun in the F16 with freefall bombs;))

Some people will just have to dig in and put some effort in. these people already know they are going to love Arma2 because they had those moments of awesomeness. Some people will just never get it though and the frustrastion will drive them to dickish behaviour. just in the same way that some people shouldn't drive/own computers/have kids. Some people just shouldn't play Arma:)