Chopper Flight Sim needs to be reconfigured

[minolestia 10]

Seriously, I brought the game today. And I bought the game for the chopper action. But to my disappointment, the chopper sim does not compare to any flight simulator I have ever tried. You guys might want to try playing microsoft sims or WarRock even and you will see what I mean or better yet, please hire a real chopper pilot and ask him how the flight sim feels and make the necessary adjustments. please please please. just made a forum account and a thread for this reason. Found so many bugs in the game but they are just bugs which I have managed to get around to. But the chopper flight sim, come on guys this is ridiculous. I have lost my excitement and prolly wont recommend this game to my clan members if this will not be fixed or improved.

[D_O_A 10]

Arma is more a Infantry simulator than a flight sim to be honest, always has been. I think you were expecting a different style of game.

The series has always had great infantry combat and had average air/vehicle combat imo

Stick to Black Shark for your chopper sim needs.

[minolestia 10]

Then why not remove the choppers and let the AI control it and not promise it to be playable. If the gameplay has not been intended for it then why put it? No point really. Think first before you reply. Seriously, you have not played warrock yet. I think its not that hard to simulate a chopper. Try other games that has better controls first before you comment. And please keep your noobish comments to yourself. Thank you

---------- Post added at 12:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 AM ----------

One more thing. The game promised 100+- playable game vehicles. correct? nuff said

[-Snafu- 77]

I thought it would have been obvious ArmA 2 isn't a flight simulator.

Then why not remove the choppers and let the AI control it and not promise it to be playable. If the gameplay has not been intended for it then why put it? No point really.

The gameplay stresses combined arms. Plus, there's nothing like popping smoke as infantry on a position that you want your buddy, who is in a gunship, to rocket the crap out of.

Think first before you reply. Seriously, you have not played warrock yet. I think its not that hard to simulate a chopper. Try other games that has better controls first before you comment. And please keep your noobish comments to yourself. Thank you

It's nearly impossible to combine infantry sim, tank sim and flight sim in one game. Compromises have to be made.

One more thing. The game promised 100+- playable game vehicles. correct? nuff said

100+ vehicles and variants. Your point being?

Edited July 16, 2009 by Snafu

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Then why not remove the choppers and let the AI control it and not promise it to be playable. If the gameplay has not been intended for it then why put it? No point really. Think first before you reply. Seriously, you have not played warrock yet. I think its not that hard to simulate a chopper. Try other games that has better controls first before you comment. And please keep your noobish comments to yourself. Thank you

If anyone's being noobish it's you. This issue has already been discussed to death, and BIS has decided to go with a flight system that's realistic but not at a hardcore sim level. I agree with their decision, because it makes the game more playable. Like D_O_A said, it's not a flightsim, so don't expect it to be one.

[D_O_A 10]

If you had actually read my post, you would have noticed i said

The series has always had great infantry combat and had average air/vehicle combat imo

Why remove the air/vehicle portions of the game just because it isn't as refined as the infantry portion?

No need to act like an arsehole either. Take your abuse elsewhere.

[minolestia 10]

Not Expecting to be a flight sim ala-hardcore gamer. Just as simple as WarRock. NVM. I will return to warrock and burn this shit of a game they called the ultimate military simulator when it is just a cover and in fact it really is just an "ULTIMATE INFANTRY MILITARY SIMULATOR" and not recommend to anyone else.

Thank you guys for pointing this out. thank you. Enjoy your "ULTIMATE INFANTRY MILITARY SIMULATOR" peace

[kremator 1064]

Nothing wrong with the controls. Learn to adapt and you will be a useful pilot in Arma2.

Move along ..... nothing to see here !

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Enjoy your "ULTIMATE INFANTRY MILITARY SIMULATOR" peace

Well, that's one less ignorant person we have to deal with on these forums then. Bye.

[Steakslim 1]

[/color]The game promised 100+- playable game vehicles. correct? nuff said

Promised 100 vehicles? I don't think there's that many even with the variations of several, but they are all playable, though I do find the wheeled vehicles driving sluggish.

You seriously base your helicopter comparison with Warrock? And last I heard FSX heli simulation wasn't all that great either.

I don't know where you get off in insulting DOA like you have, or even assuming he hasn't played Warrock, which isn't that great of a game btw, so I can see how you came up with that assumption. He flat out explained to you the situation in an honest and simple manner, and even then, the heli controls are not that bad, and are even an improvement over ArmA as far as I'm concerned, only needing some additional adjustments (rudder authority being one). You are acting like the heli's perform like the early Russian space program. ArmA is a multitiered sim/game/wonderbar, though it's main focus as mentioned is in the infantry aspect. This is why you don't have tank interiors, advanced weapon systems, and other vehicular features that you'd find in sims more dedicated to such subject. What we get is a simplified, though somewhat more complex system than what most games are willing to give you.

Like DOA mentioned, if you want a good chopper sim, Black Shark is what you'll want. ArmA is a jack of all trades, master of none sort of deal, where a lot of usermade content is left to fill in the holes in time.

If you want to continue to complain about the helicopters in ArmA2, at least give reasons and examples of what you are not liking rather than "xxxx DOES IT BETTER, BAAWWWWWWWW" that doesn't help anyone.

[Cpt.Goose 10]

Well it's clear Arma 2 wasn't intended to be that new Combat Flight Sim, and it's obvious just by a quick glance at the box. Battlefield 2 was no Simulator and they managed to throw it all in as well...

Which brings me to my only worry, yes simulating armor, air, and infantry would be a HUGE resource hog, but it has somewhat been done here. I feel it needs to be fine tuned and the helicopters, armor vehicles do need to be as accurate as possible. The engine is there for it and making a chopper respond one way or another will not take on more resources then those already being used in the game.

If the helicopters and aircraft don't have a real enough feel to them then the multiplayer is going to turn into another Battlefield 2, over run by people jumping in aircraft and making it a dog fight, with 2 or 3 men left to do the infantry side of the mission.

I take pride in taking the time to expand my flight sim skills only to have the guys who take the time to learn the infantry tactics are impressed with my flight skills when they need to be dropped in somewhere and I can do it.

This is obviously not going to be a MS Flight Sim but I think the Helicopter and Aircraft flight characteristics can and should be tweaked to offer a steep enough learning curve that not just anyone can hop in.

[llama_thumper 0]

this issue has been raised again and again - loads of people raise it and get told off for wanting too much. frankly, i don't think so - the flight model is, shall we say, less than weak. it doesn't need to be hardcore either, but right now it's at arcade level.

let the flame wars begin - just that i don't understand what is so bad about wanting something halfway decent? i'm not crapping on arma2, i just want a more-than-arcade flight model. there's countless threads on this forum about this, how come people raise it over and over again?

[mutters 10]

I got this game solely for the mountain bike and I'm most disappointed tried to pull a wheelie going down a mountain and hurt my nadgers,common bi get it together

[maddogx 13]

It's not even a proper infantry sim. Hell, I can't even make my soldier go for a pee after a couple of hours stalking through the forests of Chernarus! WTF? I expect full bladder control to be implemented in the next patch.

Okay, nuff said. I guess this thread can be locked now. :D

[D_O_A 10]

It's not even a proper infantry sim. Hell, I can't even make my soldier go for a pee after a couple of hours stalking through the forests of Chernarus! WTF? I expect full bladder control to be implemented in the next patch.

Okay, nuff said. I guess this thread can be locked now. :D

Considering they don't drink/eat anything ever, they would have bigger problems than not being able to pee :)

[Murklor 10]

this issue has been raised again and again - loads of people raise it and get told off for wanting too much. frankly, i don't think so - the flight model is, shall we say, less than weak. it doesn't need to be hardcore either, but right now it's at arcade level.

let the flame wars begin - just that i don't understand what is so bad about wanting something halfway decent? i'm not crapping on arma2, i just want a more-than-arcade flight model. there's countless threads on this forum about this, how come people raise it over and over again?

But how would you change it? Is it the physics of the helicopter that's weak, or the controls?

While I agree that the keyboard and mouse controls sucks, I dont really think the control of the helicopters is otherwise bad. I've seen some awesome pilots out there (and some that are obviously using keyboard, making it a rather bad and wobbly experience). The real question is, CAN you get 100% analog control over every aspect of a helicopters motion in Arma 2? And the answer is yes. I use a 360 controller for it. Its no $300 joystick with footpads, trackIR, a custom built cyclic controller and a cardboard Huey cockpit around you, but it simulates all analog controls: Left thumbstick for roll/pitch, right thumbstick for yaw and pushers for throttle. So I would disagree that its arcade. Controls are simulated as good as it gets, the rest depend on your physical method.

The physics of the helicopter... Now there's something that could use a little tweaking. In MP I'd rather have a lag-free flight than a physically flawless one though.

Regarding the learning curve, in my experience like 7/10 flights end up in the pilot killing passengers... I dont think that would improve regardless of how steep said learning curve is, lol!!!

Edited July 16, 2009 by Murklor

[furia 10]

I am a professional helicopter pilot with an ATPL rating and more than 16 years flying career and I am not as dissapointed as you are.

At the time I am writing I am just in Italy passing my annual competence checkride in the AW139 in a state of the art full motion simulation.

And even this multimillion dollar simulator has its "issues".

Reproduccing helicopter flying on a PC is a very tricky bussines and ARMA is trying to reproduce the flying of many different models of helos.

In real life the flight model of a UH-1Y and a Kamov are very different.

I have much fun flying helos in Arma, of course there are things that should be improved like the tendency to sink due high G load, hardly recovering from a fast dive no matter you pull back full cyclic and all full power...

but belive me this are "small issues".

In real life every helicopter flies different and has its different techniques and procedures. Just learn to fly ARMA helos the way they are. I see many skilled pilots on multiplayer games on public servers and I bet most of them have never flown a real helicopter. They just learned to fly the ARMA helos the way they are. That is a nice challenge. :cool:

IMHO other dedicated flight simulators like the Flight Simulator saga are much far away from reality regarding Helicopter flying than ARMA.

The actual main trouble is the throttle control being "digital" instead analogic and I belive this would be addressed for the next pach.

This is a general public sim for people looking for a fight and a combat.

Flying a realistic helo model would force players to dedicate a lot of time to study complex procedures (in the real thing we do not start engines with Q ;) )

Enjoy ARMA, it is a great combat sim that has the SUFFICIENT aeronautical inmersion to allow you to apply "AIR POWER" and "AIR SUPPORT" into a excellent combat sim.

However if you like it more real you can always join your local Air Force, or Flight School and spend the next years learning to fly.

As a cheap option you can buy Black Shark sim, that from what I heard is quite "realistic" for a PC sim. :)

Edited July 16, 2009 by Furia

[dmarkwick 261]

Then why not remove the choppers and let the AI control it and not promise it to be playable. If the gameplay has not been intended for it then why put it? No point really. Think first before you reply. Seriously, you have not played warrock yet. I think its not that hard to simulate a chopper. Try other games that has better controls first before you comment. And please keep your noobish comments to yourself. Thank you

---------- Post added at 12:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 AM ----------

One more thing. The game promised 100+- playable game vehicles. correct? nuff said

What you got is usable vehicles. As in, your avatar is presumed the knowledge to fly the craft, so he flies the craft, no need for the player to have in-depth knowledge of how to fly the craft, it's not about vehicle simulation, it's about battlefield simulation. It's about putting the aircraft to use rather than simulating the chopper itself.

Otherwise we'd have about 3 good pilots :)

*edit*

WarRock? Are you serious? You're citing that as a chopper simulation? My God man pull yourself together :)

When you come here & talk about DCS Black Shark, then maybe you can hold your head up high :D as it is, burning an obviously pirated copy of ArmA2 isn't really sending much of a message.

Edited July 16, 2009 by DMarkwick

[Murklor 10]

The actual main trouble is the throttle control being "digital" instead analogic and I belive this would be addressed for the next pach.

As I stated in the post above all controls are analog... Depending on your physical controller. Throttle included.

[bravo 6 0]

I think we all need to be a little bit more constructive, such as Furia.

We need critical and constructive suggestions/opinions to improve what actually needs to be improved.

Instead of flaming and destroying this thread purpose would be better if we could have more professional opinions about ArmA2 Flight Simulation so the best details and flaws become improved.

Professional Opinions are very Welcome.

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

I must have missed something here but can people please state in clear bullet points why they are unhappy with the helicopter sim element? I agree the throttle is an issue but that's apparently being fixed in the next patch.

Also:

I am a professional helicopter pilot with an ATPL rating and more than 16 years flying career and I am not as dissapointed as you are.

rofl@the op

Owned.

[bravo 6 0]

Also:

rofl@the op

Owned.

Can you elaborate what you mean with that comment?

Maybe it is significant to the discussion.

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

let me see... might have been the fact that someone comes on the forum whining about the helicopter sim element and then a real helicopter pilot says "actually it's not that bad"?

Ah well some people need everything explaining twice.

[Yoshama 0]

You say war rock is a good example of flight sim?

"let me just fly through this tree here" haha

i think flash point was better at helicopters than war rock

[bravo 6 0]

You say war rock is a good example of flight sim?

"let me just fly through this tree here" haha

i think flash point was better at helicopters than war rock

in my opinion the feeling is so arcadish.. theres clearly something wrong with the physics after watching that video. ArmA2 make the feeling much better and more realistic.