How Stupid is your squad? Keep it Fun

[Kupla 10]

Well how fun is posting replies like "my ai squad is really smart, they can take cover and stuff!"...

[jakerod 254]

Whoever said AI won't go into buildings is wrong. I have seen it and ordered it on many different occasions.

Also healing is activated by the person who is hurt.

My stupid AI story: In short Starforce 21 almost hit:

1.) A friendly helicopter as it was taking off

2.) a radar tower

3.) a forest (I wasn't onboard)

4.) a radar tower again.. the same one

5.) power lines (I wasn't onboard)

6.) a radar tower again... the same one

Also his refusal to land cost the lives of one of my men when we tried to land in a clearing and starforce 21 refused to land so we tried to parachute into it and Rodriquez I think smacked into a tree. That was a stupid move on my part though.

In their defense though I have seen some pretty amazing things as well.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Jakerod
Added AI defense statement

[Kabolte 10]

I hate when I'm leading a few helicopters and I get 1 meter away from them and they start spamming "Where are you?". But I'm probably just retarded because I can't figure out how to tell them where I am. Then when they're flying in formation, and we come under fire and speed it up to evade the anti air, they always end up crashing into each other.

[mutters 10]

Well an example of how smart my squad is thus.

we were in a wood shortly after a major engagement when up jumped cooper and whittled a small picnic set from a fallen tree.

[sparks50 0]

A fun detail is that you can order the squad to target yourself using "target/others" and then tell them to fire, at which point they will all execute you, their leader.

You have to give it to them for never second-guessing orders :D

The AI can enter buildings, but they will rarely choose to do so in their current configuration. Custom scripts helps.

Edited July 16, 2009 by sparks50

[mrcash2009 0]

Seriously, I set up a little single player mission and put a MG Nest on the edge of town. I jumped in with my squad and we go down through the woods. The squadies yell out, "Static Defense to our Front." I get everybody prone, tell everybody to hold fire. I tell the sharpshooter to crawl down and shoot the MG Nest. "Roger"... he get's up and runs down there, well within sniper range, you hear the MG Nest open up. "F$@K! Four is down. Everybody is still under do not fire orders. #2 turns into Rambo, jumps up, the X comes off as he decides to take on the soviet army, and without orders, runs down to get mowed over. The medic stands up. Just stands up. and proceeds to be pumped full of lead. So I crawl down and pick up the sniper rifle. I open fire, then 2 others just start firing. I'm yelling at them to stop it, but they say "Roger" and keep on firing. Whole squad get's mowed down just taking out a MG nest. They just do whatever they want.

you attack a mg nest from the front and say your AI is stupid?

I could not put it better myself :)

How about splitting the team, using map, make them "stealth" then flank the mg nest before anyone even gets orders to open up .. oh and also work your away BACK from it to a safer distance and then plan when and where to flank .. got a sniper? Look for higher ground further away to overwatch and then set up flanks, then let sniper open up and then flank. Also if your sniper was set to "prone" then it wouldn't "get up and run" ... so not sure what you did but I wouldn't blame the AI.

But ... when it comes to Heli's and some driving ... its shooting fish in a barrel in this thread :)

Edited July 16, 2009 by mrcash2009

[sakura_chan 9]

My favorite dumbass squad moment is when commanding a tank and you issue an "attack that target" order to your crewmates, they DISEMBARK THE FUCKING TANK and start engaging with personal weapons. I usually will switch to driver seat and run them over.

[Second 0]

I could not put it better myself :)

How about splitting the team, using map, make them "stealth" then flank the mg nest before anyone even gets orders to open up .. oh and also work your away BACK from it to a safer distance and then plan when and where to flank .. got a sniper? Look for higher ground further away to overwatch and then set up flanks, then let sniper open up and then flank. Also if your sniper was set to "prone" then it wouldn't "get up and run" ... so not sure what you did but I wouldn't blame the AI.

Sure it's nice to think that flanks are empty but that generally happens only in rulebooks and in badly designed missions. It's nice to think that MG is alone there with exposed flanks... Changes for that to be true are quite small.

Leading two AI-elements which requires great amount of indepence and ability to judge things right from AI... And then you suggest that only way to lead AI is to micromanage... Strange. Best way to foil things up in ArmA was to split squads into smaller independent units, like US rifle-team would work. Why? Player can't hold their hands.

I'd just pop gunner down myself and would start to see how things starts to unfold.

[mrcash2009 0]

Sure it's nice to think that flanks are empty but that generally happens only in rulebooks and in badly designed missions. It's nice to think that MG is alone there with exposed flanks... Changes for that to be true are quite small.

Leading two AI-elements which requires great amount of indepence and ability to judge things right from AI... And then you suggest that only way to lead AI is to micromanage... Strange. Best way to foil things up in ArmA was to split squads into smaller independent units, like US rifle-team would work. Why? Player can't hold their hands.

I'd just pop gunner down myself and would start to see how things starts to unfold.

Well if you know your facing an MG nest ... then flanks is best anyway right? I mean rule book or not, I wouldn't get a sniper to attack an mg nest directly anyway.

I suggest you use your AI to fit the situation that's all, you want to call it "micro manage" then fair enough, I call it the best way to know the job will be done .. we are not talking humans here. I'm not sure exactly whats expected, if its that bad ... play with humans :)

[Cheeba 10]

I just watched several russians getting in and out of their APC over and over agian through my rifle scope. There was an officer there, and I killed only him. Then one of their AT guys shoots his rocket towards the APC (where all his buddies are still getting in and out).

1 bullet from me = 7 or so dead badguys.

(this may not be MY squad, but its still a squad and deals with AI)

[JeffreyC 0]

Got shot while trying to sneak up on an enemy through a large open barn. Next in command ordered the medic to heal me. The medic runs over within a few meters, stops, kneels down, then says "negative" and runs away from me. This kept cycling through about 10 times before I eventually bled to death laying there waiting for the medic to move just a few steps closer instead of just running away. There wasn't even any obsticals in the way either.

[Squigibo 10]

I could not put it better myself :)

How about splitting the team, using map, make them "stealth" then flank the mg nest before anyone even gets orders to open up .. oh and also work your away BACK from it to a safer distance and then plan when and where to flank .. got a sniper? Look for higher ground further away to overwatch and then set up flanks, then let sniper open up and then flank. Also if your sniper was set to "prone" then it wouldn't "get up and run" ... so not sure what you did but I wouldn't blame the AI.

But ... when it comes to Heli's and some driving ... its shooting fish in a barrel in this thread :)

Here's the point.... since you missed it, I'll spell it out for you as if you were a member of an AI squad....

Why is it, that I can pick up a sniper rifle, crawl up to the same MG nest, and shoot the Machine Gunner, and my highly skilled AI sniper stands up and runs towards the machine gunner and doesn't just shoot him from the position he was at? Has nothing to do with flanking maneuver. I can do it, so why can't an AI sniper do the same thing?

[Second 0]

Well if you know your facing an MG nest ... then flanks is best anyway right? I mean rule book or not, I wouldn't get a sniper to attack an mg nest directly anyway.

I suggest you use your AI to fit the situation that's all, you want to call it "micro manage" then fair enough, I call it the best way to know the job will be done .. we are not talking humans here. I'm not sure exactly whats expected, if its that bad ... play with humans :)

There in the flanks could be T-90 or rifle squad in their foxholes... And this time it's they who spot us... Good bye to flanking element. Few accurate sniper shots could be enough to take out MG-nest, at best there would be hole in enemy defenses if MG-nest alone took care of that sector. Of course there could be exposed flanks, in that case it might be better to sneak to flank. So it's situation based thing.

In shooters i'd usually go for MG-nest. In OFP and Arma MG-nests were easy to take out: they are static. I can see new gunner mounting MG (with his fixed head&shoulders plainly visible) and before he can do anything i've popped hole into his head. Rifle squad or tank ain't that simple to deal with.

[Kupla 10]

Agreed, you have to take care of mg nests and tanks by yourself, because the AI always start pointlessly running towards the called target when told to engage... Even when the target is clearly visible and in range.

[jakerod 254]

Here's the point.... since you missed it, I'll spell it out for you as if you were a member of an AI squad....

Why is it, that I can pick up a sniper rifle, crawl up to the same MG nest, and shoot the Machine Gunner, and my highly skilled AI sniper stands up and runs towards the machine gunner and doesn't just shoot him from the position he was at? Has nothing to do with flanking maneuver. I can do it, so why can't an AI sniper do the same thing?

He will shoot him from there. You just have to know how to use the commands better. Don't tell him to attack tell him to target and then when he says ready to fire... tell him to fire.

[My Fing ID 0]

There in the flanks could be T-90 or rifle squad in their foxholes... And this time it's they who spot us... Good bye to flanking element. Few accurate sniper shots could be enough to take out MG-nest, at best there would be hole in enemy defenses if MG-nest alone took care of that sector. Of course there could be exposed flanks, in that case it might be better to sneak to flank. So it's situation based thing.

In shooters i'd usually go for MG-nest. In OFP and Arma MG-nests were easy to take out: they are static. I can see new gunner mounting MG (with his fixed head&shoulders plainly visible) and before he can do anything i've popped hole into his head. Rifle squad or tank ain't that simple to deal with.

So what you're saying is it's better to run straight at a machinegun than it is to check the flanks because they too may be guarded? I mean sure, maybe a T-90 is there, and if it is, report it and say 'hey, there's a tank, don't go that way'. Another possibility is there's nothing there, or a few rifle men in the open. Taking out a few guys in the open is much easier than charging a machinegun. I mean really I just fail to see the logic in not looking for the weak spot and instead trying to take a fortified area head on.

[BKnight3 0]

He will shoot him from there. You just have to know how to use the commands better. Don't tell him to attack tell him to target and then when he says ready to fire... tell him to fire.

Believe me doesn't always work.

Even if I tell him to:

1. Hold Fire

2. Target Static Defense

3. Fire

Sometime's AI will still do something outrageous and not fire, or as mentioned, play rambo.

[Second 0]

So what you're saying is it's better to run straight at a machinegun than it is to check the flanks because they too may be guarded? I mean sure, maybe a T-90 is there, and if it is, report it and say 'hey, there's a tank, don't go that way'. Another possibility is there's nothing there, or a few rifle men in the open. Taking out a few guys in the open is much easier than charging a machinegun. I mean really I just fail to see the logic in not looking for the weak spot and instead trying to take a fortified area head on.

I think i said something about these things being situation-based. However if i've found MG-nest which is unaware of me that is one good spot to use as advantage, even more so if i'm less than 100 meters away from it and it's clearly covering main elements flank. Scouting can be two sided-blade (even more if enemy is the one who has dug-in and has camoflaged it's positions), it just might be that T-90 is the one who does spotting and *BANG*ing. Then we don't have unaware enemy which can be taken by surprise, lying and farting in their tents and i've lost major deal of my forces already.

Besides in ArmA i don't need to charge at MG before it's crew lies in their own blood... dead. At first i'd take care that MG-nest in empty and then i'd still scan enemy's reactions. If forward sector still seems empty and enemy doesn't seem to react to my opening move, then i'd start my charge.

In reality? Hell yeah i would scout things up at least to some degree again based of situation. Doing things hasty and without planning against (semi-)prepared opponent usually seems to lead right into disaster.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Second

[hunterman52 10]

lol i totally agree the ai drivers cannot drive to save there own life ... lol kinda funny sometimes when you put somewaypoints waiting and waiting... for the backup and by the time your finished they arrive all because they get stuck by some stupid trees... lol

[krycek 349]

Funny story today with choppers,I was in a village as a spetsnaz and one Mi-24V as backup with seek and destroy waypoint and combat behaviour against a squad of CDF soldiers and one Bmp2,and one T72.The chopper is flying around the village,it doesn't open fire at all,while the guys from the armor are having fun shooting the damn thing.To my surprise they didn't managed to get it down even after the chopper flies the third time through the area(this time it fired with unguided missiles but missed the tank).In this time I managed to kill a few soldiers and one of them had an rpg,I take it and destroy the Bmp2.I'm starting to hide around the village since the remaining soldiers are alert of my presence and I've noticed the tank was still firing at the gunship,the Hind flies towards the tank and crashes in the tree near the tank,destroying the T72 in the process.Now thats what I call air support.:p

In the defense of the AI I have to say that I had a truck full of troops on standby to help me if the armor was destroyed,so they arrived and saw some impressive tactics eliminating the remaining of the enemy soldiers,was also surprised to see that the AI supress an area where they last saw you.

[goose4291 11]

I think in summation we can say this, when it comes to the AI as OPFOR:

Basic infantry AI is fairly good, much better than Arma's, especially when they get in close (Urban combat is definately better, I challenge anyone to argue this). Getting them to do tasks though, they're as daft as brushes

Air AI is not so hot, but it never has been. At least they don't plough into each other like Kamikaze loons like they did back in OFP

Armour AI and Vehicle AI is bloody appaling! I just can't understand how it could have gone wrong, particularly when they try to keep a formation.

Perhaps BIS should keep the Infantry AI as it is, and roll back to OFP ver 1.85 AI for vehicles?

[mrcash2009 0]

Sorry but it still comes down to control of the AI "micro management" or not, you dont control and plan, it will fail.

Whether that's good or bad via AI is your own personal take on it.

But yes the weaker most obvious "DOH!" elements are certainly driving and Heli operation via AI ... in terms of face palm moments.

Edited July 16, 2009 by mrcash2009

[Redfield-77 10]

It wasnt my squad but still funny as hell.

Playing on Utes, I had ACM running. I civilian came out of a house looked at me then yelled in terror and ran off. I thought it was funny so I followed him. He got into a truck and promptly drove it off the cliff NE of Strelka.

I couldnt stop laughing.

[jakerod 254]

Believe me doesn't always work.

Even if I tell him to:

1. Hold Fire

2. Target Static Defense

3. Fire

Sometime's AI will still do something outrageous and not fire, or as mentioned, play rambo.

You need to get him in range of it then.

Also the reason your men weren't holding fire in your initial scenario is because once they know they have been detected they try to defend themselves. Telling them to disengage should work though.

[lastn1ght 10]

my chopper pilot decided to exit the loaded vehicle hundreds of feet in the air over a dense forest.