Arma 2 & Core i7 Hyperthreading - Tested

[choC 10]

Reposted in Troubleshooting section as per Placebo's request.

There seems to be quite a bit of discussion regarding whether hyperthreading makes an impact on Arma 2, so I've decided to test the game with HT enabled and disabled in the bios on my i7 system.

In the following experiment I'll also be testing the commands '-cpucount=4' and 'cpucount=8' which supposedly forces Arma 2 to utilise 4 & 8 cores respectively, along with Hyperthreading enabled & disabled.

All benchmarks are conducted using ArmaII-Mark V1.0.

Now let's get started!

My rig:

i7 920 @ 4.00ghz

6GB DDR3 PC-12800

ATI HD 4870 512mb

Asus P6T Deluxe

Win7 64-bit

Test Settings:

Video Memory - High

Post Processing - Low

Anti-Aliasing - Off

All other settings - Normal

Resolution - 1680x 1050

RESULTS:

Test 1: Hyperthreading Enabled in BIOS -cpucount=8

1nd Run - 4440

2nd Run - 5129

Test 2: Hyperthreading Disabled in BIOS (max 4 cores)

1st Run - 4626

2nd Run - 5353

Test 3: Hyperthreading Enabled in BIOS -cpucount=4

1st Run - 4410

2nd Run - 5201

Core Utilisation:

Conclusion & Findings:

Firstly a caveat to my results, since I'm using an ATI card I have VSync forced on and cannot disable it so my frame rate was capped at 60fps throughout significant portions of the benchmark.

Now to the results, there doesn't appear to by a big difference between HT enabled and disabled just by looking at the numbers, however I must say there was a significant increase in texture pop-in pauses and frame rate dips with hyperthreading enabled. You should be able to discern from the graphs that the hyperthreaded cores are acting quite erratically with sudden drops in thread utilisation. Even when I added the -cpucount=4 command to my hyperthreaded processor, erratic behaviour was observed.

So what does this mean to i7 users? The game definitely has issues with hyperthreading, and there is definitely room for improvement for i7 processor performance with this game. Bohemia Interactive just has to get around to optimising the game for HT.

Thanks for reading :ok:

[whisper 0]

I didn't test ArmAMark mission, how many AI units are there in it?

[choC 10]

I didn't test ArmAMark mission, how many AI units are there in it?

In the first test in AM-II, I can only see two vehicles.

The second test has two helicopters and a truck.

The third test has about over a dozen infantry and 4-5 armoured units rolling across the screen at once.

[whisper 0]

No combat , things like that?

Cause as far as I know, the threading is used for micro-AI management, so theorically you'd need a bit of AI to see this in action.

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

Firstly a caveat to my results, since I'm using an ATI card I have VSync forced on and cannot disable it so my frame rate was capped at 60fps...

You can turn VSync of in the Catalyst Control Center (CCC). Go to "3D -> All Settings -> Wait for vertical refresh" and select "Allways off".

[Orange Glow 10]

You can turn VSync of in the Catalyst Control Center (CCC). Go to "3D -> All Settings -> Wait for vertical refresh" and select "Allways off".

Disabling vsync in ccc doesnt work with arma 2, it stays on regardless of what you have it set to. I can't even force it off when creating a profile in att.

[choC 10]

Disabling vsync in ccc doesnt work with arma 2, it stays on regardless of what you have it set to. I can't even force it off when creating a profile in att.

Correct.

I can't use ATI Tray Tools either because it is unsupported by Win7-64.

[von_paulus 0]

Disabling vsync in ccc doesnt work with arma 2, it stays on regardless of what you have it set to. I can't even force it off when creating a profile in att.

Half-truth. In my XP I can force it off. Although I can't force off in Windows 7.

[Blueshift 10]

Cool study...

Could you open a ticket in http://dev-heaven.net

As an i7 user I will test this.

Arma2 seems to be quite exigeant on permanant settings, like VSync off / Physics off and here, Hyperthreading off. I don't know if BI can fix this :/

I would be very very interested by your .cfg file, I've got a setup that is close (i7920 / 3Gb DDR-3 PC 12800 / P6T (not deluxe) / GFX260 / WinXP 32). I'm currently annoyed by lots of ctds and bsod that I hadn't at the begining of my install (I think I tweaked too much the game, especially in C:\Documents and Settings\XXXXXX\My documents\ArmA 2 Other Profiles\BlueShift).

Edited July 16, 2009 by Blueshift

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

Disabling vsync in ccc doesnt work with arma 2, it stays on regardless of what you have it set to. I can't even force it off when creating a profile in att.

Then I'm wondering why I can get such framerate for example...click.

Maybe it's just because I'm using XP (32bit) but maybe it's simply because I've set "refresh="100"" (default is "60") in the ArmA2.cfg and changed the attributes to write-protected.

[Blueshift 10]

Your screen is 100Hz ? If not it's useless :)

[choC 10]

Then I'm wondering why I can get such framerate for example...click.

Maybe it's just because I'm using XP (32bit) but maybe it's simply because I've set "refresh="100"" (default is "60") in the ArmA2.cfg and changed the attributes to write-protected.

Maybe, or maybe it's the fact that you're out in the middle of the ocean... :icon_rolleyes:

[whisper 0]

Maybe, or maybe it's the fact that you're out in the middle of the ocean... :icon_rolleyes:

That doesn't explain how he got past 60FPS if CCC can't disable vertical synchro ;)

[choC 10]

That doesn't explain how he got past 60FPS if CCC can't disable vertical synchro ;)

Yeah it does, he mentioned he's using Win XP and ATI Tray Tools.

I'm using Win 7-64 (ATI TT not compatible yet).

[BOTA:16 0]

Hyperthreading has rarely, if ever, been an improvement when it comes to gaming. With the P4's you could notice an improvement if you turned off HT in the BIOS for gaming.

[bangtail 0]

I said this weeks ago but thanks for the test :)

Eth

[sickboy 13]

Wondering if it was tested to set the affinity before starting the game (possible with the start command etc). Disabling / ReEnabling it everytime is a bit cumbersome :P

(Yes for my other tasks I do believe HT is welcomed :P)

[bangtail 0]

Wondering if it was tested to set the affinity before starting the game (possible with the start command etc). Disabling / ReEnabling it everytime is a bit cumbersome :P

(Yes for my other tasks I do believe HT is welcomed :P)

Yep, there is no point in buying an i7 and then disabling HT. Then again, that's lost on a lot of the "experts" that run out and buy i7 920s and immediately clock them to 4+ ghz so they can wave the e-p33n.

It's all good as long as you can get a few hundred more 3dmarks.

Vantage is one hell of a good game after all /sarcasm off

Eth

Edited July 16, 2009 by BangTail

[[kh]jman 49]

Correct.

I can't use ATI Tray Tools either because it is unsupported by Win7-64.

Incorrect I'm using the latest beta and it works perfectly, I even turn off vsnyc using ATI Tray Tools advanced profile feature.

The only reason ATI Tools does not work 'out of the box' in Windows 7 RC is because of it's strict driver signing rules. All that you need to do is put windows 7 into 'Test Mode' - it'll still work exactly the same but allow unsigned drivers to be installed and run.

Download Drive Signature Enforcement Overrider 1.3b

Source

Back on topic: I've turned HT off and I certainly get more fluid movement although it's not attributed to an increase in FPS as it remains the same with HT on or off.

Edited July 16, 2009 by [KH]Jman

[choC 10]

Yep, there is no point in buying an i7 and then disabling HT. Then again, that's lost on a lot of the "experts" that run out and buy i7 920s and immediately clock them to 4+ ghz so they can wave the e-p33n.

It's all good as long as you can get a few hundred more 3dmarks.

Vantage is one hell of a good game after all /sarcasm off

You've got to be joking right?

Clock for clock, i7 is the fastest processor on the market and it definitely does help run Arma 2 better. Do some research before you go off labelling people 3D-Mark whores.

Link: http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,687620/ArmA-2-tested-Benchmarks-with-18-CPUs/Practice/

That chart clearly shows a linear relationship between overclocking and an increase in performance.

The game was unplayable at decent settings on my E6400, hence the upgrade.

Jman;1366607']Incorrect I'm using the latest beta and it works perfectly' date=' I even turn off vsnyc using ATI Tray Tools advanced profile feature. [/quote']

Ah cheers for those links, definitely the first I've come across this information. Will test it out tonight when I get the chance. Did you notice any improvements with VSync off apart from an increase in framerates in some situations?

Edited July 17, 2009 by choC

[bangtail 0]

You've got to be joking right?

Clock for clock, i7 is the fastest processor on the market and it definitely does help run Arma 2 better. Do some research before you go off labelling people 3D-Mark whores.

Link: http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,687620/ArmA-2-tested-Benchmarks-with-18-CPUs/Practice/

That chart clearly shows a linear relationship between overclocking and an increase in performance.

The game was unplayable at decent settings on my E6400, hence the upgrade.

Ah cheers for those links, definitely the first I've come across this information. Will test it out tonight when I get the chance. Did you notice any improvements with VSync off apart from an increase in framerates in some situations?

Where did I ever say the i7 was slow? I own several of them. I think you took comments (that weren't directed at anyone specifically) to heart.

Eth

[choC 10]

I ain't attacking you either, just proving that there is a point to buying an i7 and disabling HT :P

[bangtail 0]

I ain't attacking you either, just proving that there is a point to buying an i7 and disabling HT :P

If all you do is game - sure.

Eth

[OUT FOX EM 10]

Jman;1366607']Incorrect I'm using the latest beta and it works perfectly' date=' I even turn off vsnyc using ATI Tray Tools advanced profile feature.

The only reason ATI Tools does not work 'out of the box' in Windows 7 RC is because of it's strict driver signing rules. All that you need to do is put windows 7 into 'Test Mode' - it'll still work exactly the same but allow unsigned drivers to be installed and run.

Download Drive Signature Enforcement Overrider 1.3b

Source

Back on topic: I've turned HT off and I certainly get more fluid movement although it's not attributed to an increase in FPS as it remains the same with HT on or off.

I've been using the Driver Signature Enforcement Overrider for awhile on Vista x64 and Windows 7 x64 and it works great. Also, I ran this little utility to remove the watermark that appears in the corners and at the top. I've tried many different methods to get rid of that thing and this is the only one that truly works without any ill effects.

I uploaded it here since it can be kinda hard to track down. The more mirrors the better I think:

http://www.filefront.com/14067075/RemoveWatermark_20081210.zip

And here's where I originally found it:

http://uploaded.to/?id=tsyyhe

Hope that helps.

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

Maybe, or maybe it's the fact that you're out in the middle of the ocean... :icon_rolleyes:

Do you want any shots not "out in the middle of the ocean" with over 60fps to believe me? Like somebody said it's simply unrelevant "where" in this case. Btw, I'm not using the Tray tools just the CCC to turn Vsync off.