Another few AI tests.......

[JoeyNickel 10]

After starting the mission "Dogs of War" ("Söldner" in German) over and over again, because it drives me nuts, I started some simple tests to help me understand the AI.

Simple Scenario: OPFOR and BLUFOR units face each other at the base of UTES. Unless otherwise mentioned, I left all editor settings at default.

First test, unfortunately no video because FRAPS ate it: a SMAW soldier waiting for an unarmed OPFOR soldier to get closer. SMAW detects it, changes to SMAW, waits, changes to rifle, goes prone, fires a few rounds and hits. I understand this, as the main objective for smaw is to engage hard targets, so I will not complain about changing to SMAW first. It's okay for me.

Next test. Three snipers wait for a truck to arrive. I changed the settings of their abilities from lowest over medium to highest. Does that make a difference? See yourself:

http://www.soulreflections.de/videos/3sniper_vs_truck_wm9.avi

Remark: I cannot understand that behavior at all, the medium guy detects at first, the lowest guy fires first, the medium leaves prone position, and the specialist...... well....... he's still dreaming. AI totally crap.

Next test. SMAW is waiting for a T72 to arrive. His main job. See yourself what's happening......

http://www.soulreflections.de/videos/smaw_vs_t72_wm9.avi

Remark: tears are in my eyes.........

Next test. As our SMAW was totally fainted by the impression of the T72, lets see if a M1A1 is brave. See yourself.

http://www.soulreflections.de/videos/m1a1_vs_t72_wm9.avi

Remark: OMG, I simply do not understand why the M1A1 didn't fire the cannon even sooner, and something totally not understandable: why didn't the T72 fire the cannon at all?

Then I remembered the handbook, which said you should be 3:1 when engaging the enemy. Here's what happened.....

http://www.soulreflections.de/videos/3m1a1_vs_t72_wm9.avi

ALL the tanks fired their rounds from far distance (they might have visualized the T72) just right in that moment. Interesting: the medium guy has best reaction, but that might be because of the slight variations in distance compared to the target. Let's say they all did a good job. But WHY are they firing at once, while the single M1A1 didn't seem to find the SABOT in his backpack? Is it true that you'd better face the enemy 3:1? Sure, even 10:1 is better, but even at 1:1 my own troops should at least TRY to reach the goal as asap.

How's our medium armor going? See yourself.......

http://www.soulreflections.de/videos/lav_vs_bmp3_wm9.avi

Not only the LAV, also the BMP3 was hesitating in destroying the enemy vehicle, the BMP3 took even too long ;) Also, read the comment in the video. At softer targets like soldiers or trucks the cannon was not used at all (ingame I realize the AI using the cannon more often, btw).

And now for the final test. Helicopters. I kept building those expensive CDF helicopters, hoping they would help me to reduce the enemy presence in Mrsta, which is a tactical good position for the enemy troops. A few minutes after I sent them on their mission, my sniper reported me that the helicopter was shot down. Always. Ever. Not only that, I myself sat in a Hind, having the KI fly me to the location, hoping to kill the tanks myself. No chance, as the pilot never made it to stop the copter to hover in the air. But I was able to see the borders of the map, which had one good thing ;) Here's my test with the attack copters:

http://www.soulreflections.de/videos/helis_vs_t72_wm9.avi

At first I tested with the AH-1, and was impressed. That's how I would love to see it. Then I took the CDF Hind to see how this one acts. It acts like it does ingame........... at last crashing into the ground, maybe firing a few softair rounds :)

Conclusion of this test: it's not only that the AI is partly totally crap, it's even that I do not understand the changing beavior or the slow reaction anytime. If I send my troops out, I want to know what happens (even if I have to plan with bugs), but it all seems to be a huge surprise. Bohemia..... please don't let us wait too long for the next patch - which hopefully addresses some of those issues.

[manberries 0]

Try doing these tests but not having the enemies spawn near each other. Try making way points which causes them to intersect eventually. I am unsure why, but the closer the ai spawns to each other the more stupid they are. Something with initializing the AI or maybe the AI needs some distance so it can think before acting. I noticed that when i set up battles in the editor when i place an attacking force close, they get destroyed. I would then take the same exact situation and put about 700 meters between attack and defense and the attackers all the sudden win.

[JoeyNickel 10]

Well, they were all out of visual range (which does not mean anything, as my AI reports enemies behind hills 3000 m away) and all had a waypoint (but not with any commands like S&D). But it's a good aspect to look at, yes.

[manberries 0]

I find that when i set up basic editor stuff, just groups here and there, that they do not respond well. But when i make a mission where they are dropped off in a truck or helo, then move in on target that the AI is rather satisfactory.

[JoeyNickel 10]

Maybe one waypoint is not enough. I made the units go to that waypoint and wait, while the three tanks in that video were spawned and fired immediately, without waiting for any movement or reaching a waypoint. That's what's disturbing me, I'd understand if all AI would behave equally (even not satisfactory), but I do not see a straight line which I could follow.

I'll try your hint, having a SMAW unit board a truck, disembark somewhere and see what's happing then when facing a T72 (even I must admit that in RL I'd run like hell facing a T72 front with only a SMAW in such a wide and plain terrain *g* - but AI has to follow orders, right? *g*)

[manberries 0]

Lol, me to but at least its not an upgraded t72. Well, good luck.

[cartier90 0]

Can AI be patched or is it more 'hard wired' than that ?

[JoeyNickel 10]

Seems right, what manberries said. I did a few different tests. In all a unit boarded a Hummer, that went to a waypoint, the unit disembarked, moved to another waypoint. All standard, no orders.

First a SMAW facing a Tunguska. The soldier went prone, waited a while (for the vehicle getting in range), fired a few rounds with the M16, crouched, took the SMAW and killed the vehicle (as it didn't fire back).

The same effect with a T72, only difference: the soldier was dead before he could fire the SMAW ;)

Then a Javelin. Got out the Hummer, seemed to have spotted the T72 much earlier as the soldier crawled to the waypoint, faced the tank with M16, did NOT fire, crouched and fired the Javelin, destroying the tank.

In all situations the tank concentrated on the Hummer, killing the driver with MG.

This behaviour is quite better than simply running from spawn position a few meters to a waypoint.

[topeira 10]

so conclusion is to spawn the AI at a distance from the enemy so they wont be in a line of sight when they spawn?

is that the bottom line?

when i create mission i never put the AI in line of sight. i think ppl only put AIs in line of sight when they want to test something anyways

[nkenny 1057]

Thanks! This is really interesting stuff, does anyone know the actual effects of increasing the skill slider of the AI? And in ARMA1 I think I noticed a difference based on the RANK given to the soldier.

Care to look into it?

---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 PM ----------

Using a similar approach to the one above the following can be attributed to AI behavior.

Further testing

- Weapon selection does affect effective engagement range. (m40>M16)

- Setting a soldier to DANGER or STEALTH significantly increases engagement range. (compared to AWARE)

- Initial testing shows no real difference based on RANK.

- Engagement Speed/accuracy Difference between mid-high skill setting is tiny.

- AI is a really atrocious shot with a Sniper Rifle even set to max skill.

[swampthing 10]

i've noticed the AI doing some insane stuff as well. You had some good examples there though. One particular thing i noticed that kinda pissed me off was, i was messing around in the mission editor. I made a small mission where the player started at the damn way south on the map, the one where there is a power station just below it. I put two squads of enemy AI guarding the power station. I worked my way south from the damn playing as a sniper.

There is a road to the east of the power station going up a large hill. If i had to guess on the distance maybe 500-700m away from the AI. I took position on that road in sniper gear mind you, and inched my way to the edge. I fired ONE shot and instantly the ai started firing on my exact position. I backed up so the AI couldn't shoot me due to the ridge line and ran up the road. The entire time i was running the AI was continuously firing on my exact position as i ran. They had no possible way of seeing me since i was obscured by terrain, yet i could hear the bullets follow me.

I went prone again after maybe 200m and inched my way to the edge. I lived long enough to see that the AI hadn't moved an inch and then took a bullet in the face from a guy with an AK47.

Kinda torques me a bit that the AI spotted me from that distance instantly after only one shot in sniper gear while prone, then managed to follow my exact movement and predict exactly in what position and stance i was going to be in in order to score an instant headshot.

AI needs a bit of work.

[manberries 0]

Tweak the skill settings to get a better result. The ai does think about where they last saw you and how you were last moving. So, the AI probably saw you moving in a direction and fired into that general area. The 1 shot spotting is something i have never experienced personally. However, i do realize that the grass and bushes that are small do not exist to the AI. Try hiding behind trees or big bushes that dont disappear when you turn the terrain detail to very low. Doing this i can generally pull off at least two shots before getting shot at, and when i do get shot at its generally inaccurate fire. There are holes in the AI, but understanding how they work can let you better deal with it. Hope it helps.

[Scrub 0]

Hey Swampthing, (I remember that movie)

If that one shot wounded or killed an enemy unit, they all perfectly know about your presence. That is a bug that is already resolved in the next patch. (Just killed IIRC, in the bugtracker)

[fabrizio_t 58]

Hey Swampthing, (I remember that movie)

If that one shot wounded or killed an enemy unit, they all perfectly know about your presence. That is a bug that is already resolved in the next patch. (Just killed IIRC, in the bugtracker)

Only the issue with killed enemy units is solved.

The problem with wounded/hit enemy units is still present and currently NOT fixed.

We are struggling to create documentatione and repro cases for the problem here:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/2417

Any further support (feedback, voting for issue) is welcome.

See also my signature for come other major issues ...