Israel - another cat out of the bag

[Badgerboy 0]

Janes Intelligence Digest

13 March 2002

Allies and espionage

It is rather strange that the US media seems to be ignoring what may well be the most explosive story since the 11 September attacks — the alleged break-up of a major Israeli espionage operation in the USA.

The FBI was quick to dismiss a 4 March report by Intelligence Online . . . but has agreed that an undisclosed number of Israeli students have been expelled for “immigration violationsâ€.

If the reports from Paris are correct, it would be the largest known Israeli espionage operation in the USA, Israel’s closest ally and one on which it depends for its survival.

100 of 889 words

http://www.janes.com/securit....n.shtml

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you! The Israelies really need to get get their foreign policy sorted out, regarding the US and the Middle East. Their lucky the media always seems to turn a blind eye, and I'll let you make up your own minds why that happens.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

I saw a story about this months ago, but I never heard anything about it since. Although it does seem rather malicious to be spying on your closest allies, it really isnt all that uncommon, especially in countries that have a very strong sense of a need for national security, like Israel. Of course the knee jerk reaction is to be pissed off, but its not like our Secretary of State was a spy, these students were basically just that: students (the reason they were picked up is because they were running a mall vending business without proper licensing, and from there were picked up by the INS). The US has pulled some shit like this before too, and it just reminds you that "international relations" is basically a big game of "fuck yer buddy".

Im surprised Janes only just picked up on this.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist here, but aren't alot of the major networks in the U.S. owned by Jewish people?

Some one here a little while ago put a link to the 'Fair' (Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting) website. It was saying that most, if not all Israeli deaths were reported on the news but not all of the Palestinian deaths were. This made it seem that an equal amount of people on both sides were dying when it is the Palestinians who are getting killed the most.

There was also a U.S. navy ship that was sunk back in the 60's by Israeli fighter jets, how many of you knew that?

I'll try and find out the name of the ship.....

Tyler

[ACEJim 0]

It's no secret that the pro Isreal lobby in the US (and other countries) is very powerful, and they'll obviously be biased towards reporting Isreali deaths - because that stirs up anti - Palestinian opinion.

[foxer 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Mar. 13 2002,23:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist here, but aren't alot of the major networks in the U.S. owned by Jewish people?

Some one here a little while ago put a link to the 'Fair' (Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting) website. It was saying that most, if not all Israeli deaths were reported on the news but not all of the Palestinian deaths were. This made it seem that an equal amount of people on both sides were dying when it is the Palestinians who are getting killed the most.

There was also a U.S. navy ship that was sunk back in the 60's by Israeli fighter jets, how many of you knew that?

I'll try and find out the name of the ship.....

Tyler<span id='postcolor'>

yeah i remember seeing that on the history channel.USA was trying to cover it up because it was an spy ship ,and they didn't want the USSR to know.Also did you know a carrier which was in the area of the ship getting attack sent fighters,and bombers to go help the ship but they got call back to the carrier....

[Badgerboy 0]

Huzzah for Zionists!

Its upsetting that Americans have been killed, and that their Government has had to gloss over little 'incidents', purely because many people in power are merely puppets. Its quite scary to think that a group of lobbiests can get that much power for so long.

And yes, countries fuck with each other all the time, but usually not with the country which it is completely reliant on. I would assume its either paranoia, stupidity, or the knowledge that they can get away with it..... Which one do you find the most scary?

[Badgerboy 0]

Additionally here's that link about the USS Liberty

http://www.ussliberty.org/

I'm not American but I was pretty sickened after reading into it. I would recommend reading it in detail to anyone. It makes you wonder how the public let anyone get away with that.

Here's an excerpt from one of the articles;

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Liberty attack was a war crime

The attack on USS Liberty was itself a war crime. US Navy Commander

Walter Jacobsen, a Navy Legal Officer then doing graduate work at George

Washington University, conducted an extensive legal analysis of the

attack.

His conclusion, reported in the Winter, 1986, Naval Law Review, was that

several aspects of the attack violated provisions of the Geneva

Conventions -- war crimes. Specifically, Commander Jacobsen found that

the attack was not legally justified, that it constituted an act of

aggression under the United Nations Charter, that the use of unmarked

aircraft, the wanton destruction of life rafts in the water, the jamming

of international radio distress frequencies, and the failure of the

torpedo boat commanders to render immediate assistance to a disabled and

helpless enemy were all violations of international law.<span id='postcolor'>

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Mar. 13 2002,23:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist here, but aren't alot of the major networks in the U.S. owned by Jewish people?<span id='postcolor'>

This is an unfortunate truth...

did you know that there are two major developmens happening in Belgium and Holland at the moment to have Sharon brought to justice for the Shatila and Sabra massacres? Nope, neither does anyone else. I'd consider that pretty major news, but have seen *ONE* story on it in mainstream media (the Irish Times none the less).

[Badgerboy 0]

Ah so wasn't going crazy. I think I asked for confirmation in another thread.

Why's nothing written about it? Because the editors would be labelled anti semetic by the extreme Israeli's.

[Wobble 0]

It looks like Isreal isnt the US's "buddy" as much as all the halfwits here would like to pretend.. US just started and helped pass a resolution to give palestine its own country, and the US is speaking out VERY agressivley against Isreal's recent actions..

I still think Isreal is closer to being the "good guy" than palestine.. they are just taking it a bit far.. but given the history.. its fairley understandable.. not right.. but understandable.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ Mar. 14 2002,01:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It looks like Isreal isnt the US's "buddy" as much as all the halfwits here would like to pretend.. US just started and helped pass a resolution to give palestine its own country, and the US is speaking out VERY agressivley against Isreal's recent actions..

I still think Isreal is closer to being the "good guy" than palestine.. they are just taking it a bit far.. but given the history.. its fairley understandable.. not right.. but understandable.<span id='postcolor'>

Good guy, eh?

This isn't f**king Star Wars here... we've got a bunch of people who don't like each other much on both sides, both laying claim to the same piece of land, and have been systematically murdering each other for 50 years.

I have difficulty describing either side as "good guys".

[Wobble 0]

well neither is "good" in the literall sense that everthing they do is wholesum and justified.. but nor is palestine..

I dont live there all I can go by is what I see in the news.. and what I see is palestinian suicide bombers blowing themselves up trying to kill innocant people, and then the Isrealies attacking *relativley* military targets.. of course thats not 100% always the situation. but from what ive seen (and thats all I have to go by) Isreal is not the greater evil..

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ Mar. 14 2002,02:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well neither is "good" in the literall sense that everthing they do is wholesum and justified.. but nor is palestine..

I dont live there all I can go by is what I see in the news.. and what I see is palestinian suicide bombers blowing themselves up trying to kill innocant people, and then the Isrealies attacking *relativley* military targets.. of course thats not 100% always the situation. but from what ive seen (and thats all I have to go by) Isreal is not the greater evil..<span id='postcolor'>

Please refer to other threads referencing:

1) Large proportion of media outlets worldwide controlled by Jews.

2) Current Israeli prime minister responsible for genocide, has Mossad kill key witnesses.

Aha, I have countered your arguement by referring you to other threads. Now, to escape to bed

[Wobble 0]

Current Israeli prime minister responsible for genocide, has Mossad kill key witnesses

source?

Large proportion of media outlets worldwide controlled by Jews.

how so?

[Badgerboy 0]

See this thread

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....9;st=30

Follow all the links

[Wobble 0]

you cant REALLY consider news from..International Campaign for Justice for the Victims of Sabra & Shatila

I mean, you point out that alot of the news sources are pro-jewish (owned by jews)... so ya shouldent really trust it...

then you turn around and cite *proof* from a site that is obviousley anti-isreal.. so I mean..

kinda of a doublestandard.. you say some news networks are biased because of jews.. and you back it up with a new site that is obviousley ANTI-jew..

I mean these guys go on and on about all the baaad stuff isreal has done.. yet makes NO.. not a single refrence to the countless things palestine has done to isreal which have more or less led to these things,,

talk about a biasd source..

[Longinius 0]

Both sides attack military and civilian targets. Both sides have been pushed so far by an escalating spiral of violence that its disturbing. No one is good in that conflict, not by a long shot.

As for genocide...well...lets just say that if an independent search was done, backed by the US (and not prevented by it) we would probably find out some disturbing things about Israel. I mean, we allready KNOW every disturbing thing about the Palestinians since most major media channels view them as bad guys.

[Wobble 0]

well it must be said that the US has REALLY been against isreal's actions latley. and it just recentley scted on a UN thing to give palesting its own country.. so ya cant really say the US is pro-isreal no matter what.. its really pissed at isreal right now..

[Longinius 0]

"well it must be said that the US has REALLY been against isreal's actions latley. and it just recentley scted on a UN thing to give palesting its own country.. so ya cant really say the US is pro-isreal no matter what.. its really pissed at isreal right now.."

Yeah, better late than never I suppose. The reason they are pissed are because they risk losing support from Arab nations in the war against terrorism though. So it really does not have to do with concern for the Palestinians.

[miss_cleo 0]

regarding the west bank and gaza strip... how do you say "lebensraum" in hebrew?

[theavonlady 1]

Well, well! Another blatant anti-semite on board, Badgerboy, and unbelievably gullable potential candidates galore the rest of you.

A Spy Myth is Born

by Daniel Pipes

New York Post

March 11, 2002

In a spectacular scoop, the most serious and authoritative newspaper of France, Le Monde, announced on its front page last Tuesday that "An Israeli Spy Network Was Dismantled in the United States." The lengthy article asserts that "without doubt" this is the biggest spy story of its type in over 15 years.

But American journalists found not a shred of evidence to support the claim, and it met with wall-to-wall derision from the U.S. and Israeli governments.

The Justice Department spokeswoman, for instance, dismissed it as "an urban myth that has been circulating for months" and indicated there were no Israelis arrested for espionage. The FBI spokesman called it a "bogus story" and said "there wasn't a spy ring."

Actually, any observant reader can sense that Le Monde's account - with its crazy-quilt of unsourced allegations, drive-by innuendoes and incoherent obscurities, but no hard facts - makes no sense.

That one of the world's most prestigious newspapers promotes such errant nonsense prompts two observations.

First, even the most sober media have a proven weakness for sensational conspiracy theories. The New York Times found itself wiping egg off its collective face after lavishing attention in May 1991 on the "October surprise" theory peddled by Gary Sick that, to win the presidential election in 1980, Ronald Reagan had conspired with the ayatollahs in 1980 to keep Americans imprisoned in Iran.

In June 1998, CNN aired "Valley of Death," a would-be exposé of American troops' use of sarin nerve gas during a clandestine 1970 raid into Laos. The two producers and the on-air narrator (Peter Arnett) all lost their jobs as a result.

Second, such conspiracy theories do not appear suddenly, but emerge piecemeal from the muck.

In this case, the notion that found full flower in Le Monde apparently began life as a passing reference in, of all things, the September 1998 Starr Report on President Bill Clinton's relationship with Monica Lewinsky. During their final sexual encounter, on March 29, 1997, Lewinsky reported that the couple had a lengthy conversation in which the president told her "he suspected that a foreign embassy (he did not specify which one) was tapping his telephones."

This was red meat for conspiracy theorists, who immediately focused on Israel. For example, Gordon Thomas, a British journalist, in March 1999 announced (in "Gideon's Spies: The Secret History of the Mossad," from St. Martin's) that Israel's intelligence service possessed tapes with 30 hours of Clinton-Lewinsky cooings.

The usually responsible Insight magazine elaborated on this theory in May 2000 with a story on the "huge security nightmare" of Israeli spying on high-level U.S. officials by "using telephone-company equipment at remote sites to track calls placed to or received from high-ranking government officials, possibly including the president himself."

Fox News immediately named an Israeli company involved: Amdocs, Ltd., which supposedly has the records (though not the contents) of virtually every call made in the United States.

In June 2001, a Justice Department task force issued a 61-page draft report noting a pattern of activities by Israelis in the United States and raised the possibility of their being part of an intelligence-gathering operation - possibly of a drug-trafficking gang.

In mid-December 2001, Fox News named a second Israeli telephone company (Comverse Infosys, which it said has access to nearly all wiretaps placed by U.S. law enforcement), then added an explosive accusation: Israel had its own spying operation against militant Islamic groups in the United States and "may have gathered intelligence about the [9/11] attacks in advance, and not shared it."

Here, Fox News regurgitated a very tired theme. For example, in a 1990 exposé of the Mossad, "By Way of Deception," Victor Ostrovsky claimed that Israeli agents knew in advance about the truck bomb that killed 241 U.S. Marines in October 1983 but did not warn their American counterparts.

A Paris-based newsletter, Intelligence Online, in late February reported the U.S. Department of Justice had neutralized a "vast network of Israeli intelligence agents" by arresting or expelling 120 Israelis.

Finally, Le Monde (which is presently in negotiations to buy Intelligence Online) completed the process by broadcasting Intelligence Online's fantasy to the wide world.

All this matters, for conspiracy theories are easier to kill than to bury. They haunt the fringes of the political spectrum, poisoning the political debate. Shame, then, on those media outlets that contributed to this dangerous falsehood.

[Wobble 0]

you calling me an anti-semite avon? jesus christ all i did was point out the fact that the US is pissed about some things isreal is doing right now..

[Longinius 0]

"you calling me an anti-semite avon? jesus christ all i did was point out the fact that the US is pissed about some things isreal is doing right now.."

Some reversed racism again. As soon as you critizise a minority or group that has been treated badly, you are a racist or an anti-semite. Just like if you critizise America, you are anti-american or America bashing. You MUST NOT HAVE AN OPINION THAT IS NOT PC. Because if you do, you dine with Hitler!

[Wobble 0]

US bashing.. I.E. "all americans are fat lazy slobs and their goverment is stupid"..etc etc and other baseless mindless drivel that flows so freely on this board from time to time is alot different from simply stating a fact such as that the whitehouse is a little ticked at isreal for some of its recent actions..

[Longinius 0]

"US bashing.. I.E. "all americans are fat lazy slobs and their goverment is stupid"..etc etc and other baseless mindless drivel that flows so freely on this board from time to time is alot different from simply stating a fact such as that the whitehouse is a little ticked at isreal for some of its recent actions.."

You yourself have accused me of US bashing when all I have done have been pointing out facts about the US government.

Its a defensive reaction by most humans. Find an enemy or scapegoat, identify him or her, point it out to everyone else. "You cannot be right so therefor you must be a <whatever> basher."