Israel - another cat out of the bag

[Supah 0]

True avon .... mb a dome like in the trueman show. If they do not want to coexist then there is no option except all out war and to crush the palestinians once and for all ..... dunno how viable that option is though.

[Thehamster 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (supah @ Mar. 14 2002,19:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">True avon .... mb a dome like in the trueman show. If they do not want to coexist then there is no option except all out war and to crush the palestinians once and for all ..... dunno how viable that option is though.<span id='postcolor'>

Ohh yes crush the Palestinians, my what a good idea yep piss off the international community.

When the Irish blew up part of Manchester did the British promptly send over hundred tanks and a bunch of troops to the Ireland to show them who was boss no they did not.

It seems for every Israeli that dies about 12 Palestinians bite the dust yes I know it is them blowing themselves up but is Israel attacking the Hamas (sp?) nope they spend most of there time blowing the shit out of police stations seems to do a lot of a good.

Yes I know peace is hard to make when part of one side don't want it but only your death but what is the point of sinking to there level of violence there only damaging there reputation and becoming more unpopular world wide with there allies.

Yep there’s my rant I'm sure you will all find many flaws in it I can see several at the moment

[Supah 0]

IF the palestinians really Do not want to coexist and continue their terrorism even after a settlement is reached what other option do you see the Israeli's having? Mass suicide? a second diaspora?

[Badgerboy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">IF the palestinians really Do not want to coexist and continue their terrorism even after a settlement is reached what other option do you see the Israeli's having? Mass suicide? a second diaspora?<span id='postcolor'>

Considering that a settlement fair to both sides has yet to be acted on or implemented, I can't understand why you would post the above?! The extreme members of both sides want the other wiped out but they are the exception, not the rule. Most people just want peace now, and that includes most Palestinians.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Thehamster @ Mar. 14 2002,23:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ohh yes crush the Palestinians, my what a good idea yep piss off the international community.<span id='postcolor'>

Sorry to piss you and your cohorts off.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When the Irish blew up part of Manchester did the British promptly send over hundred tanks and a bunch of troops to the Ireland to show them who was boss no they did not.<span id='postcolor'>

Maybe they should have but I wouldn't know. That's your territory, this is mine.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It seems for every Israeli that dies about 12 Palestinians bite the dust<span id='postcolor'>

The ratio is around 1:3.5 and not 1:12. Now do you feel better?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I know it is them blowing themselves up but is Israel attacking the Hamas (sp?) nope they spend most of there time blowing the shit out of police stations seems to do a lot of a good.<span id='postcolor'>

So you would rather have us blow up more people? Or do you naively think that Hamas is the sole problem? Seems the latter.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes I know peace is hard to make when part of one side don't want it but only your death but what is the point of sinking to there level of violence there only damaging there reputation and becoming more unpopular world wide with there allies.<span id='postcolor'>

Right, we should die like sheep to the slaughter instead. No thanks.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yep there’s my rant I'm sure you will all find many flaws in it I can see several at the moment <span id='postcolor'>

Where?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ Mar. 15 2002,06:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Most people just want peace now, and that includes most Palestinians.<span id='postcolor'>

That's simply a falsehood.

[LordZach 0]

you must have missed the palestinian masses saying no peace until all jews in israel are killed

the only peace they want is the total destruction of israel.

oh i forgot, walking into bus stops and shopping malls and blowing up innocent civilians is peace dialogues. yeah, right.

[Longinius 1]

"oh i forgot, walking into bus stops and shopping malls and blowing up innocent civilians is peace dialogues. yeah, right."

But the shelling of residential buildings and tanks shooting at people are? Hmmm, how odd.

[LordZach 0]

show of strength. not the best idea in the world, but suicide bombings only show idiocy and racism

[Longinius 1]

"show of strength. not the best idea in the world, but suicide bombings only show idiocy and racism"

Show of strength? Are you insane? How is it strong to blow civilians and their buildings to pieces? Surely, you must support Slobodan Mil. then.

Suide bombings...I can't see how they link in with racism?

[LordZach 0]

do you see them bombing any muslims that live in israel? they are ONLY targeting jewish.

the way it is a show of strength, is pretty much a demonstration that doesn't seem to be working too well. they show how powerful their shiny new tanks are, and the enemy is supposed to stop and think "gee, maybe this is a dumb idea after all"

if you'd do your reading, you would find out they cleared the buildings out before they blew them up. if you think the poor little palestinians are just not understood and being picked on by big bad israel, you are the insane one.

[Longinius 1]

"do you see them bombing any muslims that live in israel? they are ONLY targeting jewish."

That has nothing to do with racism. That is because of the simple fact that the conflict is between palestinians and jews. So the palestinian suicide bombers are no more racist than the jewish tank drivers. Or have you seen any tanks fire on Jews?

"if you'd do your reading, you would find out they cleared the buildings out before they blew them up."

Ethnic cleansing. This is what Slobodan is on trial for you know.

"if you think the poor little palestinians are just not understood and being picked on by big bad israel, you are the insane one."

I don't. I know Palestinians are just as bad as the Israelis. Both target civilians to one extent or another. I don't have to support one side to be critical of how the other side acts. Everyone here know what the Palestinians have done. They don't try to hide the fact that they kill civilians. We all know they comit warcrimes and crimes against humanity. Israel does to and aslong as people will deny it I will talk about it.

[LordZach 0]

yes both target civilians to an extent. hell who doesn't? but the fact is israel isn't blowing up crowded malls and markets are they?

good luck finding any jews in the palestinian territories. they are long dead.

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LordZach @ Mar. 15 2002,07:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">good luck finding any jews in the palestinian territories.  they are long dead.<span id='postcolor'>

Actually the settlers in the colonies on palestinian territory are jews and they're still very much kicking...

[LordZach 0]

if you consider that their territory

[Longinius 1]

"yes both target civilians to an extent. hell who doesn't?"

Hopefully most don't target civilians. Civilians die any way, by accident. But its a difference between attacking a target KNOWING civilians will die and attacking a target RISKING civilian casualties.

"but the fact is israel isn't blowing up crowded malls and markets are they?"

No, they blow up so called refugee camps instead.

"good luck finding any jews in the palestinian territories. they are long dead." '

S - E -T - T - L - E - R - S

[hneel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LordZach @ Mar. 14 2002,08:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if you consider that their territory<span id='postcolor'>

But they do. That's the root of the problem.

[Pete 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LordZach @ Mar. 15 2002,07:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">yes both target civilians to an extent.  hell who doesn't?  but the fact is israel isn't blowing up crowded malls and markets are they?  

good luck finding any jews in the palestinian territories.  they are long dead.<span id='postcolor'>

there was a terrorist group who planted a bomb at a kindergarden (or a school?..not sure)..it went off and several kids and a teacher got injured.....it was a JEWISH terrorist group that did it, the school was palestinian...

both sides have terrorists....only one side has more of them...the other has a army to use also you know, works the same...or actually, having a army works better...as avon said, its a 1:3.5 ratio.

throwing blame on only one of the sides or calling anyone rasists/anti-semits or what ever solves nothing...this is what the israelis and palestinians have been doing for a long time, both accuse eachother, both ignore or excuse own faults...both call eachother rasists/antisemits....neither of them do much for a peacefull solution...

a third party is necessary...a mass murder or ethnic cleansing to "scare" one of the parts to "create a one sided peace" is a option desired only by sick twisted minds....same kinds of thoughts ran in the heads of hitler, milosevic, saddam, stalin....

it will happen, the more violent the conflict becomes the more international pressure there will be to get peace...and a third party has to step in, would israel resist it they should be sanctioned (yes, they are the ones resisting it now) when it comes to weapons and other things they use for war.

dunno if it was said in this thread "ambulances ferry gunmen"...proofs?

according to investigations made by red cross this is not true and israel never was able to proove it.

still ambulances are used for target practise.

innocent untill proven quilty....funny, since there's a lot more proof for sharons involment for crimes of war than there is for ambulances being used for military/terrorist purposes.

[Charlie_McSheenie 1]

In case you didn't know already - the palestines dragged the body of an isreali collaborator into some square (where jesus was apparently born) in jerusalum,then loads of palestines cicrcled round his (dead) body and started partying in front of loads of nuns and stuff

Ultimatly i support neither side but in this case it just seems the isreali's just retaliate to the palestines cowardly attacks with acts of force using the army and stuff. Its the palestines that truly suck in this as far as i see it, because this has been going on for ages, the isreali's have lost tolerance for their shite and retaliate. If they were just going in and killing all those armed palestines then i'd probably support them but since the palestines terrorists love to surround themselves with their own kids and wifes in the hope they can cry collaterol damage on the isreali then its a no win situation.

i think it's best we just leave them alone to kill each other, its not like we can do anything about it, and we don't really have the right to interfere just because we're richer than them. If anything we just make the situation worse by giving them guns, and also by fuelling hatred towards ourselves. We shouldn't feel obligated to ''help'' these people out just because the american government see themselves as the saviors of the world, we all know the american government does EVERYTHING with their own interests the only thing on their mind, so they aren't exactly the global police, so at least other countries shouldn't be following them into the situation, and the americans should pull out of the situation as well and let the isreali's and palestinians slug it out, because with any religious conflict if you throw westerners into the equation it'll just make the situation worse. IMHO anyway.

If i went into school and some smaller kid would throw rocks at me all day, i'd probably attack him, maybe not lob tank shells at him, but i'd consider kicking his ass, even if he was a little smaller than me.

[Pete 1]

"If i went into school and some smaller kid would throw rocks at me all day, i'd probably attack him, maybe not lob tank shells at him, but i'd consider kicking his ass, even if he was a little smaller than me. "

why not just leave, since he is throwing his stones at his home, where you entered at night and refused to leave...since the police wont come to kick you out he throws stones.....

[Guest Scooby]

"We are not calling out for masses of martyrs to go and confront them. They are! We didn't start this war, they did? We attempted to retain unilteral cease fires twice, they never did."

You are calling your masses of soldiers to kill Palestinians. Little difference beetween those.

[Paratrooper 0]

All this is stuff and nonsense. Israel stay out of Palestine!

and when you stop invading other counrries there can be a chance for peace. You can't steal some other country and then wonder why you have a security problem.

Oh and I refuse to be called an anti-semite for calling wrong wrong, whoever does it.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

This whole thread illustrates why there is never going to be peace over there. Hell, we arent even the ones shedding blood, and we are still pissed off. How do you think the people at the sharp end of this one feel?

Obviously, the fact that Israel just sort of moved into Palestine and set up shop is kind of, oh, I dont know, wrong.

The reason Israel didnt lose that first war in 1947 was because the much larger Palestinian forces were fighting each other more than the Israelis.

I admire the fact that Israel has held on through so many wars, and has come out victorious every time, and this has given them, along with their democratic government, in my mind, legitimacy.

I do not admire the fact that they hold an entire population under martial law because of the actions of a few.

I do not admire that Israel killed its own best hope for peace when Israeli extremists murdered Yitzach Rabin.

I find the Mossad, while effective at what it does, is one of the most abhorrent organizations since the Gestapo. Occasionally assasinations may be justified, but the Mossad has carried out how many? And, has the situation gotten any better because of these killings? No.

I find the fact that Israel elected a murderer like Sharon shows that nobody over there really wants peace as much as they say they do.

Think about it.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Think about it.<span id='postcolor'>

I did. So much innacuray in so little space:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Obviously, the fact that Israel just sort of moved into Palestine and set up shop is kind of, oh, I dont know, wrong.<span id='postcolor'>

Who start a violent attack on whom in October 2000? Israel didn't just "sort of" move in. However your words "I don't know" are correct.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The reason Israel didnt lose that first war in 1947 was because the much larger Palestinian forces were fighting each other more than the Israelis.<span id='postcolor'>

This is literally fiction. The Arab armies were united in their solidarity to throw the Jews into the sea. There was no Arab infighting during the days of Israel's war of independence in 1948.

BTW, Israeli's then were called Palestinians just the same as the Arab residing in Israel.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I do not admire the fact that they hold an entire population under martial law because of the actions of a few.<span id='postcolor'>

It is the action of many, not few, and promoted and orchestrated by Arafat and his cohorts.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I do not admire that Israel killed its own best hope for peace when Israeli extremists murdered Yitzach Rabin.<span id='postcolor'>

No one does here either. Not that there's love lost for Rabin, according to many people here. And it was a single extremist, not any group of them, that planned the murder, with the promotion of one Avishai Raviv, who himself is an Israeli security services provacateur. His trial has been delay over 9 times because someone high up doesn't want him on the stand.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I find the Mossad, while effective at what it does, is one of the most abhorrent organizations since the Gestapo.<span id='postcolor'>

Fascinating comparison. Do you have any idea what you;re talking about? Don't think so?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Occasionally assasinations may be justified, but the Mossad has carried out how many?<span id='postcolor'>

Not I'm confused or maybe you are. Are you referring to the mostly pin-point killings of terrorists and suicide bombers? I sthere a quota limit on how many such beats we're entitled to kill before they kill us? Are you worried about them becoming an endangered species?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And, has the situation gotten any better because of these killings? No.<span id='postcolor'>

It would have been much worse.

Why don't people of your ilk simply ask has it gotten better for the Palestinians since they began armed and terrorist attacks in the midst of peace negotiations?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I find the fact that Israel elected a murderer like Sharon shows that nobody over there really wants peace as much as they say they do.<span id='postcolor'>

George Bush is a murderer.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Mar. 16 2002,14:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh and I refuse to be called an anti-semite for calling wrong wrong, whoever does it.<span id='postcolor'>

You're a minimally a potential antisemite, out of plain ignorance. Refuse all you want.