No place to hide. Not so realistic after all...

[W1NDOWL1CKER 10]

Hi all.

I only play multiplayer and only on PvP servers, and i like to sneak on my enemies and hide a lot.

The trouble is that when i'm all dressed up in my snipersuit, hiding in some tall grass, and i'm thinking that i'm all but invisible, the enemies who are more than a few hundred feet away will see me sticking out like a banner on a perfectly smooth hill.

Because small details like grass are not rendered at larger distances it's almost useless to hide using natural camouflage.

I also wonder if people who set their graphics to LOW will see me even sooner than others who are using HIGH or VERY HIGH settings (like myself).

Is there something that's going to be done to resolve this VERY UNREALISTIC issue?

[django333 10]

First, it's a ghillie suit. :p

And it probably isn't going to change. It comes down to the limits of the game. All games (that I know of) only render objects like trees and bushes up to a certain distance. And yes, people who play on lower settings will see you sooner. It's a problem in most FPS games.

[{S8G}Rub!c0n 10]

also, if you get behind the enemy lines and up on a wooded hillside there are plenty of places to hide...Just finished a hold match went 40 and 4 and i was just a rifleman with a m107..........not a ghillie suite so maybe you need to i dunno hide by a tree at a distance... :P

[Zarak666 10]

Well, I'd say, while having low quality hills will obviously make it easier to see a sniper, this can be avoided. The SAS refer to "silhouette" as one of the main tenets of camouflage. Essentially, stay in valleys, and certainly never on hills. Hills almost certainly appear as unbroken lines unless a sniper is on them. Trees are the safest bet.

Good hunting

[Ekre 10]

Hi all.

I only play multiplayer and only on PvP servers, and i like to sneak on my enemies and hide a lot.

The trouble is that when i'm all dressed up in my snipersuit, hiding in some tall grass, and i'm thinking that i'm all but invisible, the enemies who are more than a few hundred feet away will see me sticking out like a banner on a perfectly smooth hill.

Because small details like grass are not rendered at larger distances it's almost useless to hide using natural camouflage.

I also wonder if people who set their graphics to LOW will see me even sooner than others who are using HIGH or VERY HIGH settings (like myself).

Is there something that's going to be done to resolve this VERY UNREALISTIC issue?

just hide behind a bush, rock or a tree, they are rendered at large distances

[MasterChief096 10]

15 years from now the standard PC will be able to render that grass as far as you can see in the game, then you will be able to do that... but for now pick something bigger to hide behind. I usually find a thicket of trees or w/e and go prone next to a trunk, and i appear as just part of the crap spread out all over the place... :D

[Leonidus 10]

I think this needs to be fixed. I understand the limits of the engine, but. that dose not mean its not possable to do something like this ->

The game render's distant objects with little detail in them (Say a tree), now if you zoom in with a gun, some times, you can see the tree detail change to high detail.

Now if you see some one off in the distance, and zoom in, the detail of the grass could then appear as if to simulate it. and make it alittle harder to see a sniper in a ghillie suit.

The Engine is more then capable of doing this because it dose it with tree details and bush details.

Thats the best I can think of without lowering the FPS to a compleat stop with +1000 grass range

[whisper 0]

Hi all.

I only play multiplayer and only on PvP servers, and i like to sneak on my enemies and hide a lot.

The trouble is that when i'm all dressed up in my snipersuit, hiding in some tall grass, and i'm thinking that i'm all but invisible, the enemies who are more than a few hundred feet away will see me sticking out like a banner on a perfectly smooth hill.

Because small details like grass are not rendered at larger distances it's almost useless to hide using natural camouflage.

I also wonder if people who set their graphics to LOW will see me even sooner than others who are using HIGH or VERY HIGH settings (like myself).

Is there something that's going to be done to resolve this VERY UNREALISTIC issue?

1) BI is working on a effective grass layer at distance. Won't be a perfect solution but better than current situation. In fact they had it already implemented in ArmA1, I don't know why they didn't re-use it in ArmA2

2) Try to find servers disabling grass in the mean time, it won't fool you into thinking you are in cover

3) as said, use bushes, rocks and trees, they are rendered

4) in close distance fighting (like the fights we had last night in Chernogorsk, I remember you ;) ), hiding in grass does help this time as close combat means grass rendered. I stumbled twice last night on ennemy hidden in grass 2 meters from me. Luckily for me they were watching the opposite direction. It's particularly true in the lighting conditions we had last night with sun nearly gone, makes people far harder to see (moreover I was facing sun the whole time making it even more difficult)

[Duck4coveR 10]

The problem isnt the fact that the grass isnt rendered, the problem is that the player is at long distances!

Surley some kind of code can be written into the game like if your Prone, in grass type A, then your not rendered if viewed at more than say 50m? ( A+B=C ) its just the draw distance working the opposite way round in particular situations?

Obviously Id still want to see rendered the muzzle flash and smoke at all times, and also perhaps the binoculars made to see through this draw distance restriction, thus making a spotter a real asset in game :)

I think this would be a much better way then is currently used, if possible with the game engine ???

[whisper 0]

That's a bit too much :)

Not entirely rendered would be better

[Duck4coveR 10]

That's a bit too much :)

Not entirely rendered would be better

Yeah i see your point, being worried about people hiding and just being able to pick off the opposing team without any fear is the fine line between fun and too realistic. My idea was primaraly aimed at the snipers with those ghillie suits though, but what you say would be a good option. When there not moving they could be rendered at 25% then upto 50% if they started moving ?

[cjsoques 0]

Playing AAS last night I was sick of snipers picking us off at the closest base to theirs.

I found a mounted heavy machine gun nest and was able to turn the graphics on the very lowest settings at the same time b/c my FPS was really choppy, two things I noticed:

1. My FPS shot strait up and was smoothe

2. I could easy all the snipers in the tree line like christmas lights b/c of the color contrast between them and the ground and even the surrounding trees.

They were about 200-400m out but were a very distinguinshable black and gray dot amongs the greens and browns. I just fired 10-15 rounds at that area and it always got the guy.

It's didn't feel fair b/c earlier when I had bushes and objects rendering at higher quality I could have never seen them. They really need to do something about that.

[danshyu 10]

Yeah i see your point, being worried about people hiding and just being able to pick off the opposing team without any fear is the fine line between fun and too realistic. My idea was primaraly aimed at the snipers with those ghillie suits though, but what you say would be a good option. When there not moving they could be rendered at 25% then upto 50% if they started moving ?

Two words, muzzel flash. Bright flash and smoke pretty much gives you away pretty effectively.

[Jinef 2]

Delta Force 2 seemed to manage grass in 1999.

[W1NDOWL1CKER 10]

Ok, thanks for your replies. I will set my graphics to LOW for now, i hope that BI will indeed do something about it.

And Whisper, i hope to meet u on the hills out there tonight.

---------- Post added at 05:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:28 PM ----------

And by the way, of course i hide using bushes, rocks and trees but u get my point right?

[whisper 0]

Getting your point completely! That's exactly why I disabled grass on my server, because in the current state, it's pointless, and worse, misleading.

PS : my online nickname is Kalbuth ;)

[W1NDOWL1CKER 10]

Yes, i remember Kalbuth. Did u say u run a server? Is it a PvP server? If yes, what's the name of it?

[whisper 0]

Yes, i remember Kalbuth. Did u say u run a server? Is it a PvP server? If yes, what's the name of it?

PingZero, PvP (in fact, pretty much AAS only), see my sig.

As I'm not in a clan, I've difficulty bringing people on it lately, unfortunately

[An Fiach 10]

Playing AAS last night I was sick of snipers picking us off at the closest base to theirs.

lol I was kicked from a server last night for doing just that. I wasn't paying attention to chat so I didn't see the warnings from the Admin, although I thought it stupid considering you need to kill all of the enemy in the zone in order to capture it anyway (I would never spawn camp the opponents last spawn point) honestly thought the people I was shooting were a bit daft for continuing to spawn there and you would think that people who hang out in the spawn area were free game anyway.

I rejoined the server and killed them all anyway, just had to wait for them to get a few hundred meters from the flag and my position gave me a view of the entire hillside. They could have easily spotted me if they had looked around, the m107 isn't exactly the most silent weapon.

If you are sniping, get as far away as possible and surround yourself with solid objects. EVen at short ranges, if you stand out against your surroundings, you are easily spotted.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm not an arse, just thought it acceptable to kill people like that as it seems to be in most servers I have been on and received the same treatment. (AAS)

Edited July 8, 2009 by anfiach

[whisper 0]

lol I was kicked from a server last night for doing just that. I wasn't paying attention to chat so I didn't see the warnings from the Admin, although I thought it stupid considering you need to kill all of the enemy in the zone in order to capture it anyway (I would never spawn camp the opponents last spawn point) honestly thought the people I was shooting were a bit daft for continuing to spawn there and you would think that people who hang out in the spawn area were free game anyway.

Actually, depending on situation I may continue to respawn endlessly (and get killed).

Provided 1) the spawnkiller is rather a lonely affair (ie useless and won't achieve much) 2) I've live friendlies around. The spawnkiller will get fixated on spawn point and dispatched in a matter of minutes by friendlies around.

If I stop respawning, the guy will have a free opportunity to sneakily get into our spawn area and cap it. I prefer he makes noise and get killed :)

[An Fiach 10]

Actually, depending on situation I may continue to respawn endlessly (and get killed).

Provided 1) the spawnkiller is rather a lonely affair (ie useless and won't achieve much) 2) I've live friendlies around. The spawnkiller will get fixated on spawn point and dispatched in a matter of minutes by friendlies around.

If I stop respawning, the guy will have a free opportunity to sneakily get into our spawn area and cap it. I prefer he makes noise and get killed :)

It would have been nice if the situation was like that, unfortunately neither team seemed to be moving at all so I was just racking up kills, my team mates seemed content to stay in our own zone rather than take advantage of the path I had cleared for them. Even after I had stopped I got another 27 kills in the last few minutes of the mission and only at the last did my team move up and capture the area. Spawn killing is boring and my only intent was to scatter the enemy to facilitate an advance. I WANTED them to come looking for me. I know whenI get killed, I want to take that guy out.

[madmark 0]

I would like to see some kind of fading out of your character if viewed from a distance while laying down . Years ago joint operations had this and it worked very well, as you had to look very hard to spot them and usually only with binoculars or your own sniper scope.

[maturin 12]

I've seen enemies sunken into the ground when hiding in far-off grass, but I was surprised when I saw it, because it seems to be rare.

[D-X3M 0]

Delta Force 2 seemed to manage grass in 1999.

even better... delta force 1 using voxel technology made it impossible to see anyone laying down in camouflage... and that's way older

[Cpt Bollock 10]

even better... delta force 1 using voxel technology made it impossible to see anyone laying down in camouflage... and that's way older

What a great game it also had scope adjustment and wind direction to take into consideration before firing.

---------- Post added at 08:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:22 PM ----------

The grass is great for hiding not so good for shooting...go prone in the middle of an area of grass tell me what you can see in your scope grass!.Being able to prone in grass and move away would benefit every class.If your a medic you need as much cover a possible when trying to get to a downed man who has just been shot,the chances are the medic will be next in the firing line unless he uses a smoke,or finds some other form of cover to get to him.

---------- Post added at 08:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:09 PM ----------

lol I was kicked from a server last night for doing just that. I wasn't paying attention to chat so I didn't see the warnings from the Admin, although I thought it stupid considering you need to kill all of the enemy in the zone in order to capture it anyway (I would never spawn camp the opponents last spawn point) honestly thought the people I was shooting were a bit daft for continuing to spawn there and you would think that people who hang out in the spawn area were free game anyway.

I rejoined the server and killed them all anyway, just had to wait for them to get a few hundred meters from the flag and my position gave me a view of the entire hillside. They could have easily spotted me if they had looked around, the m107 isn't exactly the most silent weapon.

If you are sniping, get as far away as possible and surround yourself with solid objects. EVen at short ranges, if you stand out against your surroundings, you are easily spotted.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm not an arse, just thought it acceptable to kill people like that as it seems to be in most servers I have been on and received the same treatment. (AAS)

People also forget that it can take upto 20 mins for a sniper to get into position,if he gets passed the spray weapons first time.Sometimes in a match you do alot of running and dying,other times you take up a good position and punish the other side.There is a number of ways to make snipers ineffective,team work being the best which you find is missing on most the PvP servers.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Cpt Bollock