Really? A crosshair for a "realistic" sim?

[Big Dawg KS 6]

...probably cheating but whatever :D

Don't let anyone ever convince you that it's cheating... unless it's BIS, in which case if they say it's cheating then it is.

[celery 8]

You simply consider the act of shooting the important act, nothing else. If I play right, the act of shooting is not important at all. I said I'm not a particularly gret player, but if I shoot you, you're dead even before I pull the trigger (click the mouse, that is. :) ) Unless I mess up the shot itself.

He said:

"Assume we both played otherwise equally, so we both detected each other at the same time."

Am I correct to assume that you don't consider the act of shooting a part of playing right? No matter how "right" two opponents play before shots are fired, one of them is going to die in the end. If there is a method of playing right that guarantees your victory, how come someone dies? Unless right and wrong are only judged in hindsight after the outcome, in which case you can go around and do whatever you like (e.g. use crosshairs) as long as you emerge victorious.

[galzohar 31]

If you can see me, I can see you, assuming we both play correctly. And then it all comes down to who can hit the other first (or disengage and "reset" the fight), unless we're WAY out of eachother's range.

[Rg 0]

I agree it is critical that you can filter for more options in the browser.

Like I said before the best crosshairs where the TrueMod's for A1. The crosshair was made up of 4 dots in a diamond that was about the size of a man around 20m away. or so. Not enough to get an accurate shot off at distance as your target would be fully inside the redicle, but a close CQB contact you could put it on a target and know that you will hit it somewhere on the body close up. Can't go popping headshots even close up. It's a nice general marker of where your weapon is pointing, but not an laser accurate one.

Been testing some stuff, but it's on it's way. A page will be on http://dev-heaven.net/ soon and I will try to update the progress frequently.

[xxbbcc 6]

If you can see me, I can see you, assuming we both play correctly.

Then it'll simply come down to one of us making a mistake. No one plays equally well as someone else; that's just theoretical BS. In one moment I'm better, in another, you are. We all make mistakes every once in a while and it just so happens that sometimes a mistake turns out to be fatal.

And no, just because I can see you it doesn't mean that you can see me. If I do things right, you aren't even aware of my presence. Again, you assume that we'd be in a situation where we're both ready to shoot right away but a chain of events lead to a situation like that. It doesn't happen out of thin air.

If I do get into something like that, I consider that a mistake on my part. It means that I let you too close and I gave you an opening.

Even if I mess up and get into a face-off with you, I might still get lucky and shoot you - I might just be able to pull up my sight fast enough. But that's still just that: luck, nothing else. I wouldn't want to base my survival on pure luck.

[Zipper5 74]

None the less, the crosshair should not be forced to be disabled in ArmA II. People who want to use it - use it. Those who don't want to use it - don't use it. There's no reason to force one or the other. At all. It's even ridiculous to suggest such a thing. Unless you want many more pissed off players...

[xxbbcc 6]

Am I correct to assume that you don't consider the act of shooting a part of playing right?

I'd say yes, you're right. The pure act of pulling the trigger is really just a conclusion to a set of events that lead to it. At that point the target has only one chance to survive: get lucky (either shoot me or I mess up the shot.)

Unless right and wrong are only judged in hindsight after the outcome, in which case you can go around and do whatever you like (e.g. use crosshairs) as long as you emerge victorious.

I'm tempted to say yes. I really don't care how someone else is playing. I always assume that all other players play optimally. If they do, I'm still prepared for it and my strategy will deal with that (if I don's screw up, that is. :) ) If they don't, it just makes my life easier.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

None the less, the crosshair should not be forced to be disabled in ArmA II. People who want to use it - use it. Those who don't want to use it - don't use it. There's no reason to force one or the other. At all. It's even ridiculous to suggest such a thing. Unless you want many more pissed off players...

Indeed.

I forgot, what's the point if this thread now? :confused: This forum is for suggestions, not pointless arguments. Shouldn't this thread be closed?

[maxter 10]

Indeed.

I forgot, what's the point if this thread now? :confused: This forum is for suggestions, not pointless arguments. Shouldn't this thread be closed?

Yes. I think the point was to remove the crosshair completely, which will never happen. I think we all can agree that being able to turn your crosshair off regardless of what settings the server uses would only be positive though. If that message hasn't come across by now, it won't, cause the thread is now just full of arguments and insults anyway.

[JSj 12]

I completely agree with the first poster. Why is there a totally unrealistic, arcade style crosshair in the middle of the screen in a game that is supposed to be about realism?

[jw custom 56]

I completely agree with the first poster. Why is there a totally unrealistic, arcade style crosshair in the middle of the screen in a game that is supposed to be about realism?

And i guess you only read the first post :rolleyes:

[Daniel 0]

Turn it off. We did.

[no use for a name 0]

I completely agree with the first poster. Why is there a totally unrealistic, arcade style crosshair in the middle of the screen in a game that is supposed to be about realism?

Because BIS games are about OPTIONS...you don't want it, turn it off. I use it because it helps me with situational awareness. When playing a game I don't know when my guy is fatigued, or even what direction the gun is pointing when I'm using freelook. With the x-hair I can easily see this information that I normally wouldn't need IRL

[ActionMan 10]

I completely agree with the first poster. Why is there a totally unrealistic, arcade style crosshair in the middle of the screen in a game that is supposed to be about realism?

Read some more posts. You can turn it off... If you stop playing on the easy difficulty levels it will be off by default!

[Colt45_GTO 10]

lol i turned mine off and then found myself searching for the target when i pulled the sights up. i guess its something to get used to.

hip shooting is harder than one thinks IRL especially with a rifle, the POI point of impact can be a good 12-36" off where you would assume it would land, depending on distance. with a pistol its much easier simply because a pistol is just an extention of your hand, the barrel takes place of your pointed finger so shots would land roughly in the area you would imagine between 4 and 12" depending on distance.

ipersonally got quite good at hip shooting with pistol, i could never master it with a rifle and i shot them longer...a good 20 years longer

[HyperU2 11]

I find the crosshair helps simulate shooting where you wouldn't actually use a sight (point shooting) it's important to have in those situations. When I play without it I just avoid CQB situations.

[GRS 10]

Make a gun with your fingers and point it at something while not "aiming". Chances are it will be pretty darn close. People have that ability. So it's somewhat justified I guess.

[JSj 12]

Make a gun with your fingers and point it at something while not "aiming". Chances are it will be pretty darn close. People have that ability. So it's somewhat justified I guess.

Yeah, but you don't do that in the game, you shoot from the hip, that is not the same thing. And in the real world, if you shoot from the hip you will not hit anything beyond a few meters. That would correspond well with firing in ArmA 2 without a crosshair. You can hit a target that is very close, but nothing beyond that.

And yes, I know you can turn the crosshair off (I always do), but like I said, that also makes some weapons and equipment difficult to use. I had a very frustrating time playing the scenario 'Village sweep', thinking the laser designator was bugged or broken, until I came to the forum and realized that turning off the crosshair also turns off the red dot, the only thing that tells you if the laser is working or not.

Edited December 2, 2009 by Johan S

[Inkompetent 0]

Yeah, but you don't do that in the game, you shoot from the hip, that is not the same thing. And in the real world, if you shoot from the hip you will not hit anything beyond a few meters. That would correspond well with firing in ArmA 2 without a crosshair. You can hit a target that is very close, but nothing beyond that.

I'm yet to see someone in ArmA hold their gun by the hip ;)

As stated it's 'point shooting'. Hold the weapon to the shoulder while firing, but don't use the sights.

Agree that it would be nice with crosshairs for hand grenades, underbarrel grenade launchers, and mounted weapons, while not having rifle crosshairs though. Not to mention repeating the same old song about that the current crosshairs are too accurate. Silly when one doesn't bother using the ironsights because the crosshairs are more accurate than the ironsights at 400m.

[whisper 0]

Yeah, but you don't do that in the game, you shoot from the hip,

Dead wrong, you NEVER shoot from the hip in ArmA2.

What you see in ArmA is what actually happens. Could you please provide me with a screenshot of a soldier, AI or player, shooting from the hip? You cannot because it never happens.

What happens is AI or player shooting from shoulder. Is their eye aligned with reticle or not is all the difference between ironsight and crosshair modes, respectively.

And moreover, it is translated in game by a parallax error in crosshair mode that you do not get when aiming through ironsight, completely logical because in crosshair mode, your point of view is not anymore aligned with your line of fire.

In other words, crosshair is not perfectly accurate (ofc, pixel wise, this parallax error is lower for distant targets, rendering the thing less efficient, ie I find it a bit too accurate on distant targets)

The sense you get IRL of your gun direction is quite different when using the gun on shoulder instead of hip shooting (who IRL shoots from the hip, btw?)

I think there's a mod somewhere making crosshairs less accurate, FYI. You may like it.

[JSj 12]

Ok, maybe you don't shoot from the hip in the game, but the crosshair is much too accurate now. I think removing it gives a nice balance between emergency unaimed fire used at very close range when needed and more deliberate aimed fire. For instance, it works that way in WWII Online, one of the best military simulations around.

And my biggest problem with it still remains. A game based on realism should not have a detached, unrealistic crosshair in the middle of the screen. I think it takes away a lot of the game immersion and realism. And again, it wouldn't be a problem if we could turn it off for the rifles without losing the usability of some of the other weapons.

Edited December 2, 2009 by Johan S

[max power 21]

So we come back to the beginning, here. If you don't like it, turn them off.

[JSj 12]

Yes, and lose some important functions for some weapons and equipment. Like I said, otherwise this would not be a problem.

And also to repeat myself again, the point is not that you can turn it off, the point is that the crosshair should never be in a realism game in the first place.

Would you think it was ok to have other unrealistic things in the game, like being able to jump over buildings, just as long as it could be turned off if you wanted to?

[max power 21]

Yes, and lose some important functions for some weapons and equipment. Like I said, otherwise this would not be a problem.

And also to repeat myself again, the point is not that you can turn it off, the point is that the crosshair should never be in a realism game in the first place.

Would you think it was ok to have other unrealistic things in the game, like being able to jump over buildings, just as long as it could be turned off if you wanted to?

Soldiers don't have the ability to jump over buildings, but they do have proprioception.

[jw custom 56]

Agree that it would be nice with crosshairs for hand grenades, underbarrel grenade launchers, and mounted weapons, while not having rifle crosshairs though.

I hate the use of crosshairs but i can agree with this, same goes with some vehicles where 3rd person view is more or less a must to operate them!