M16A4 acog?

[Heatseeker 0]

The scope view doesnt match the model. Shouldnt it be the 3.5 one with the red chevron? (TA31 RCO i think). :confused: .

[Curry 10]

Yeah, the magnification feels like 24x, way too much fo an Acog...

Edited July 4, 2009 by Curry

[galzohar 31]

Not saying the in-game ACOG is right/wrong, but if you're going to measure its magnification you need to use its FOV - the 4X ACOGs have a FOV of 11m at 100m. Place a T72 100m away from you so that you're looking at it from the side (=6 meters), and see if it takes just a tad more than 1/2 your FOV (supposed to be 10m). This is of course assuming that the size of the in-game T72 is the correct 6m. If the tank takes the proper amount of space in your view, the zoom of the ACOG is correct, otherwise it is not.

Similar tests can be done with other scopes using their RL specifications.

[shataan 1]

For some odd reason I could not adjust the ACOG view. It only had 1 magnification. ACOGs are 4X. Be nice to be able to adjust bullet drop as well.

[galzohar 31]

Not being able to adjust the ACOG is odd? I don't get it... IRL it has only 1 magnification too. Adjusting for bullet drop IRL with ACOG is done by using the different crosses, not by adjusting "clicks" like you do with sniper scopes IRL (but can't do in game which is a shame).

[frederf 0]

Aye, ACOGs don't nave elevation knobs or variable magnification. Also the 4x magnification seems a bit much because most of the time you're running around in something much less than 1x. 1x is when you bring up the ironsights and hold your right mouse button.

[Curry 10]

Not saying the in-game ACOG is right/wrong, but if you're going to measure its magnification you need to use its FOV - the 4X ACOGs have a FOV of 11m at 100m. Place a T72 100m away from you so that you're looking at it from the side (=6 meters), and see if it takes just a tad more than 1/2 your FOV (supposed to be 10m). This is of course assuming that the size of the in-game T72 is the correct 6m. If the tank takes the proper amount of space in your view, the zoom of the ACOG is correct, otherwise it is not.

Similar tests can be done with other scopes using their RL specifications.

Tested it with your method and seems about right. With the barrel it's 9.53m long, so this is correct magnification. And it looked so god damn huge. No fixing needed.

Now Heatseekers question is still unanswered. Which type of crosshairs are the correct ones for this ACOG model?

I found three that could match:

http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=716

http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=750

http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=751

Edited July 4, 2009 by Curry

[galzohar 31]

It probably looks "huge" because the FOV of a 4X view is 13.9m (including the blacked out areas), then the FOV of a 1X view would be 55.75m at 100m. That's a pretty narrow FOV, which means that they probably increased your FOV in unscoped view at the cost of zoom. A similar test can be done to verify with unscoped view, zoomed and unzoomed.

55.75m at 100m would result in a 58 degree FOV, which is pretty narrow for moving around. This is why your ACOG view looks much more than 4X - it really is more than 4X, but it's not because the ACOG is wrong, it's because your "normal" view is "wrong".

This is all with 16:10 aspect ratio btw, as in the screenshot. May or may not be a tad different at other ratios.

Edited July 4, 2009 by galzohar

[Curry 10]

It probably looks "huge" because the FOV of a 4X view is 13.9m (including the blacked out areas), then the FOV of a 1X view would be 55.75m at 100m.

I just made something, hope it's a correct interpretation of your text. The pictures shows, that the FOV at 100m is appr. 170 to 180m.

I could put 17 T-72 tanks across the screen at a distance of 100m. Each tank with barrel is appr. 10m long. 17 tanks times 10m results in a 170m FOV at 100m for 1x magnification. Okay, now if you look with just your eyes, does this count as 1x magnification or 0x?:confused:

Edited July 4, 2009 by Curry

[galzohar 31]

This is expected and there is really no way to fix this. A game can't reliably set object sizes on your monitor, since it doesn't know your monitor's size nor resolution. What it can is set a FOV. When using optics, sticking with the specs of the optics is the most realistic thing to do, and usually works fine within the limitations of a monitor (since they are usually less limiting than those of the scope).

When you're not using any optics, IRL your FOV is HUGE compared to anything that a game could ever implement (at least on a single monitor), which forces the game to "compress" the view so that you can keep at least some of your FOV. With 180m at 100m it's an 84 degree FOV - smaller than the ~120 degree human FOV, but allows objects beyond 50 meters to not be so tiny they become a bunch of unrecognizable pixels. This is why the standard view looks "zoomed out" and it's hard to see distant objects with it.

They should really keep it so that optics will never show a bigger FOV than they can IRL, and that you can always stretch/unstretch the view to any desireable level as long as you don't get more than 120 degree FOV and can't see details on targets at extreme distances. Say, limit max zoom to 10cm per pixel at 1000~2000m or so when not using magnifying optics, and when using optics that multiply view by X, divide the cm limit by X as well.

Hopefully someday 10,000X2000 monitors will be standard ;)

[Curry 10]

Thank you galzohar you cleared things for me up.:)

At least the magnification for the ACOG seems about right. Now let's go on with the crosshairs.:)

Which type of ACOG is modelled ingame and which crosshairs does the RL counterpart use?

[max power 21]

I just made something, hope it's a correct interpretation of your text. The pictures shows, that the FOV at 100m is appr. 170 to 180m.

I could put 17 T-72 tanks across the screen at a distance of 100m. Each tank with barrel is appr. 10m long. 17 tanks times 10m results in a 170m FOV at 100m for 1x magnification. Okay, now if you look with just your eyes, does this count as 1x magnification or 0x?:confused:

IMG]http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/7739/acog2.th.jpg[/img]

What you have pictured there is not an acog, it is a reflex sight. They are supposed to have 1x magnification... just in case that was the root of what you were saying about the acog having 1x mag.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Max Power

[Heatseeker 0]

What are you guys talking about? :crazy_o:

I was just saying that the optic of the ACOG does not match the model mounted on the M16A4 (TA31).

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/marines-pleased-so-usmc-orders-660m-more-acog-rifle-scopes-01021/

They used the optic from another model instead.. just a small thing i guess.

[galzohar 31]

The file is titled ACOG but doesn't really have anything to do with ACOG, it's just showing the unscoped FOV which is independent of your weapon.

I don't know exactly what the in-game model should be, but based on the 3D model it's one of the "red dot" models based on the fact it has that "red stripe" that's supposed to "collect" light to illuminate the dot during the day. At night it still has some self-illumination which is too weak to see during the day but is visible at night.

The ACOG model linked above is not the only red dot ACOG model. There are quite a few others - the one I had was definitely different, but looked pretty much the same as the in-game one and the one in the link.

[GatorMarineDiaz 0]

What he's saying is that the version of the ACOG depicted in game (that is the version in use with the USMC) is supposed to have the red chevron reticle. All Marines are issued ACOGs with their M16A4/M4 Service Rifle and ALL of these ACOGs use the red chevron. That is the ONLY model issued to Marines.

[Curry 10]

The sight of the ACOG should look like this I guess.

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1329/img1515uk8.jpg

or

http://ee.ar15.com/uploadImages/20090608/59244/Uploaded_633800898537002500_File.JPG

Model is the TA31F ACOG.

http://www.botachtactical.com/tracta.html

Drop compensator and ranging capability

http://pro-patria.us/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/ACOGReticle.243183548_std.jpg

Small video of the civilian version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6thfpoqOavQ&feature=related

Edited July 6, 2009 by Curry

[GatorMarineDiaz 0]

It should look like the first one. The model is the TA31RCO, the TA31F is the civilian version and doesn't have any horizontal markings

That first pic is excellent, btw

http://www.botachtactical.com/trta1.html

[Curry 10]

It should look like the first one. The model is the TA31RCO, the TA31F is the civilian version and doesn't have any horizontal markings

Thanks for pointing that out. Now we have the model and the sight picture which needs to be included for the ACOG in the next patch.:)

I assume the horizontal markings are for windage? Do you have any information about that?

Edited July 6, 2009 by Curry

[GatorMarineDiaz 0]

I am working on implenting this reticle, for the time being it looks OK but I still want better results so it may be some time before I reach a releasable state.

[frederf 0]

Gator are you using RVMats for the reticule chevron?

[GatorMarineDiaz 0]

Negative, I am not very experienced with this kind of thing. I am just using a graphic that looks like it "glows"

[frederf 0]

Maybe once you're about done we can find someone who knows about RVMats. It's really what this sight needs.

[Delta Hawk 1829]

I'm not sure if anybody knows this, but the reticle for the ACOG is wrong. The Marine Corps uses the red chevon with bullet drop compensator flanked by a horizontal mil scale. Very similar to this, however, I don't recall there being a man size outline.

http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=476&back_row=4&categoryID=3

[maxter 10]

I'm not sure if anybody knows this, but the reticle for the ACOG is wrong. The Marine Corps uses the red chevon with bullet drop compensator flanked by a horizontal mil scale. Very similar to this, however, I don't recall there being a man size outline.

http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=476&back_row=4&categoryID=3

That's kinda what this whole thread is about so yeah. :)

[galzohar 31]

Yes it helps reading the thread, we've already said that the 3d model belongs to one of the acogs that have a red dot rather than a regular cross, and that the one the marines use is the model specified multiple times.