Russia urges us to explain nuclear plan

[Grave 0]

take a read

The Russian foreign minister has called for Washington to clarify reports that the Pentagon is preparing a contingency plan for nuclear strikes against Russia.

We hope there will be a statement at a higher level offering clarification

Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov

Russia, China, Iraq, Iran, Libya, North Korea and Syria all feature in a classified Pentagon nuclear report, according to the Los Angeles Times newspaper which claimed to have obtained a copy of the document.

The report, presented to Congress in early January, allegedly revealed that the military had been asked to draft plans to use nuclear weapons against these seven countries.

"We hope there will be a statement at a higher level offering clarification and reassuring the international community," said Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov, cited by the Interfax news agency.

He added that such reports "can only cause regret and concern" if they transpired to be true.

US Vice President Dick Cheney played down the report at a news conference in London after a meeting with UK Prime Minister Tony Blair.

"Right now, the United States on a day-to-day basis does not target nuclear weapons on any nation," he said.

Arms row

The latest spat between Moscow and Washington comes as both sides gear up for a summit in May between Russian President Vladimir Putin and his US counterpart George W Bush.

Putin will discuss nuclear issues with Bush in May

Both men are hoping to sign a deal on nuclear arms reduction, but Mr Ivanov said that work on an agreement was going very slowly and that negotiators might fail to meet the May deadline.

President Bush has promised to cut the US nuclear arsenal to 1,700-2,200 warheads from the 6,000 both countries are currently permitted, while President Putin has said Russia could go even lower, possibly to 1,500.

But the US has since made clear that it will place some of the weapons in storage, rather than destroy them.

The Pentagon said it needed to keep weapons in reserve in case of "unforeseen international events", but Mr Ivanov said this would mean the promised cuts would only exist on paper.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi....532.stm

[Wobble 1]

this has been covered, and theis plan is nothing new its been in place since the 50s.. there is ALWAYS a plan.. the target just changes now and then..

and the Russians should be the last people to point a finger at anyone.. seeing as how for many years they were the Nuclear arms superstore for any 3rd world nuttjob with enough money to buy one..

maby when they explain where the several warheads and several tons of nuclear weapons grade material and weapons documents that they "lost a few years ago went.. then maby they can get the explanation they ask for.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

this has been covered, and theis plan is nothing new its been in place since the 50s.. there is ALWAYS a plan.. the target just changes now and then..

<span id='postcolor'>

True, it's really nothing new, but it is still not PC to talk about it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

and the Russians should be the last people to point a finger at anyone.. seeing as how for many years they were the Nuclear arms superstore for any 3rd world nuttjob with enough money to buy one..

<span id='postcolor'>

Pure BS. As opposed to the US, the Russians have never shared their nuclear program with any of their allies.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

maby when they explain where the several warheads and several tons of nuclear weapons grade material and weapons documents that they "lost a few years ago went.. then maby they can get the explanation they ask for.

<span id='postcolor'>

I can't even beign to say what utter nonsense this is. Please don't say anything, if only you can come with is exaggerations and lies. Can you come up with a reference to back your claims? ... and please no "I saw it on history channel"...

[Wobble 1]

read up on it... in the early 90s there were rumors of several individuals and orginizations who were going to buy nukes.. eventually the UN asked the USSR about it and their reply was "we cannot locate some warheads and some material"

"some" being at lest 12 nukes that are ofically "lost" and several tons of uranium and plutonuim..

the USSR was dead broke and the only asset it had was its vast and expensive to maintain nuclear weapons.. so it sold them to anyone who could pay.. no questions asked.. of course this is not 'OFFICALLY" acknowledged but neither was Area 51

[Guest]

You really have to stop watching bad action movies and playing the "Ranibow Six" games... it is getting to you...

So I guess that you have no references to back up your claims...

Of course there has been some smuggeling of nuclear material from the former Soviet Union, but not warheads. Don't you think that a rich guy, like Osama would have leveled NY or Washington to the ground by now, if it was so easy to buy usable nuclear weapons...

[Wobble 1]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/1205/p1s3-wogi.html

http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/reports/lebedlg.htm

Former Russian Security Council Secretary Aleksandr Lebed has stirred controversy in both Russia and the United States with his allegations that the Russian government is currently unable to account for some eighty small atomic demolition munitions (ADMs) which were manufactured in the USSR during the Cold War.

sorry, add 80 small nukes to the list..

Police find a highly radioactive container with Strontium-90 in a Kiev apartment while investigating a September smuggling case. Investigators previously said that the smuggling operation was carried out by an international group illegally transporting nuclear substances out of Russia

Georgian officials confiscate a kilogram of low-enriched Uranium-235 fuel pellets just miles from the Turkish border. Georgian scientists claim that the material did not originate in their country; the material may have come from Russia

A Russian officer is arrested in possession of highly radioactive substances that police say had been stolen from Baikonur space center. The officer was attempting to smuggle the materials to Uzbekistan

Two employees from one of Russia's nuclear-powered ships in the port of Murmansk are arrested while trying to sell radioactive material.

A naval conscript steals and sells components containing precious metals from a nuclear submarine of the Northern Fleet. The sailor stole 24 coils of palladium-vanadium alloy wire

A scientist employed by a Krasnoyarsk-based research facility is criminally prosecuted for manufacturing and exporting radioactive materials

Chechen rebels leave a container of radioactive Cesium-135 at Izmailovsky Park and inform Russian secret services through journalists. The stunt demonstrates that the rebels have access to nuclear materials

Authorities arrest nine people and confiscate over 100 pounds of nonfissile uranium-238. Officials at the IAEA have identified nuclear reactors and weapons plants of the former USSR as the "chief source of radioactive materials being smuggled.

Prague police stop a Czech nuclear scientist and discover nearly six pounds of enriched uranium in the back seat. The uranium is traced back to the Russian nuclear research center at Obninsk

Russian authorities arrest two men possessing 21 pounds of industrial uranium-238. The material was stolen from a secret nuclear center.11

German officials seize 500 grams of weapons-grade plutonium smuggled in from Russia.10 The material may have originated in Obninsk

Undercover German police catch thieves in sting operation. The suspects possess 800 mg of highly enriched uranium, which may have originated in Obninsk

Russian security forces arrest thieves with 1.8 kg of highly enriched uranium before they can smuggle the material out of Russia. The material was stolen from the Naval base storage facility

Detectives in Lithuania discover over 4 tons of beryllium in bank vaults in Vilnius and Kaunas. Russian organized crime is found to be behind the shipment

Russian police intercept a smuggler with 1.5 kg of highly enriched uranium in the Podolsk train station. The material was stolen from Luch Scientific Production Association

its no big secret.. the USSR

the list is virtually endless..

every once in a while the USSR police would bust a "smuggler" but later investigation found that most times the person was either not convicted or spent no time in prison.. kinda lean for stealing nuclear material eh?

[Guest]

Christian Science Monitor??? Are you fucking kidding me... come up with something serious please....

The second link is better, (Center for nonproliferation studies)... more serious and solid.. but please read it yourself, especially the conclusion:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There is no convincing evidence that any former Soviet nuclear warheads have been lost, stolen, or misplaced.<span id='postcolor'>

The other list is of fissile material, and yes there is such smuggeling, but not complete nuclear devices!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

every once in a while the USSR police would bust a "smuggler" but later investigation found that most times the person was either not convicted or spent no time in prison.. kinda lean for stealing nuclear material eh?

<span id='postcolor'>

Now *where* did you get that from?

[Wobble 1]

now *where* did you get that from?

there was a big stink about it in late 1990, it was in the news for a few days.. something about 4 or 5 guys who had been arrested form smuggleing and let go 3 times in 1 year.. when people started getting suspicious they were rounded up and jailed for 6 years, then when they were out the left the USSR to i *think* england and told their story and when it was reaserched (the dates of the arrests and charges) it was found that on average they served between 1 and 2 months per smuggleing offence and each time they were realeased and for some strange reason their criminal record did not show it and they somehow managed to get jobs in areas (goverment) where they could steal again.. and then get caught again.. etc etc. etc.. records showed they were arrested up to 6 times each all told but it never went on their criminal records... the story kinda fizzeld out because it surfaced in late 1990 just a few weeks before the gulf war started.. and of couse everyone forgot about it..

[Grave 0]

Its all speculations. US does not have the right to point their nukes at Russia. I dont think they would like 6000 or more nukes of Russia and China pointing at US. As for China, what had it done? I think Bush and others should really recondider this idea using their minds this time or atleast give a dicent explonation which I see Wobble cant really come up with.

[Wobble 1]

any country that has nukes has them targeted.. right now as I type this there are missles in china targeted at US cities and US missles pointed at China... USSR probably the same..

as for "pointed at"... so what.. all you need to have it "pointed at" someone is have the ballistic targeting data.. which can be had in a matter of seconds.. like I said.. they have been targeted since the 50s.. its nothing new.. of course there is almost NO chance of them being used.. but they are still pointed that way..

[Grave 0]

Bah...Your posts show your lack of knowledge. For one there is NO USSR today, there is Russia (and other states). Russia is a different country. U say this has been going from 50's, ur right it 'was'. The cold war is over, now US and Russia seek closer, safer ties, not point their Nukes at eachother. And US actions are threatning both China and Russia as powers. And what Russia will be left to do if US is ignorant is just load up the SS-27's and point back. And I think u see the whole new start, the whole new hate and war. Of course both of us cant say why they created this new plan. Russian defence minister is now in US and will discuss the nuclear problems and future.

[Wobble 1]

And US actions are threatning both China and Russia as powers.

how?

Nuclear weapons are not pointed like a gun.. you have them thats pretty much it.. if we wanted to target China.. it could be done in a matter of miniutes.. if not seconds.. and if china wanted to target US ..same thing.. the US isnt doing ANYTHING to China or Russia.. this is such old news its almost laughable that anyone even gives a shit..

you think the US is being threatening NOW? you ever hear of "chrome dome?" for MANY years back during the cold war the US ALWAYS had B-52 actually flying towards the former USSR.. they got to a certin point and if they got the word they were to turn back.. if not they were to proceed to drop their nuclear payload on targets in the doviet union.. at any point during the day, any day of the week any week of the year there was a US b-52(or several) headed to moscow..

so this new stuff.. which i still find amazing that its being taken as "new" news is by far nothing to get any feathers ruffled about..

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ Mar. 12 2002,04:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">for MANY years back during the cold war the US ALWAYS had B-52 actually flying towards the former USSR.. they got to a certin point and if they got the word they were to turn back.. if at any point during the day, any day of the week any week of the year there was not they were to proceed to drop their nuclear payload on targets in the doviet union.. a US b-52(or several) headed to moscow..<span id='postcolor'>

Same with Soviet Tu-95's, Heck I remember as a kid I even saw one flying over Havana, pretty low, and it was solo so I'm guessing it might have been an emergency landing or something....Yep this is pretty much old news, but the question should be is it still necessary?

[Wobble 1]

is what necessary tovarish?

chrome dome ended long ago.. nothing is really going on.. the thing about afghanistan is commin sense..

the US isnt threatening anyone with nukes.. the US has Nukes, China has them.. Russian has some.. thats about it.. people act aghast at the idea that the us actually has them "pointed" at China.. when they could be pointed at ANYONE in a matter of a few miniutes.. there isnt really anything of any really big deal going on..

[evilbyfar 0]

It all makes sense because one conspiracy theory which makes allot of sense when you read all the stuff in detail is that the US knew September 11 was going to happened and they planned it...the plan has been in the making for the past 4 years...and the heart of it is the US's plan to control the world...that was the main idea behind the whole thing and now when I hear them getting nukes ready it just all comes together once again....most people will say this is bullshit but don't blow something off tell you have fully read what everyone has to say...though where I read this I don't have to post at the minute......

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ Mar. 12 2002,05:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">is what necessary tovarish?<span id='postcolor'>

Preparing new contingency plans, against Russia to be exact. I mean, look at the list of countries mentioned: Russia, China, Iraq, Iran, Libya, North Korea and Syria. One of these things is not like the other IMHO, this I guess is where I show my pro-Russian bias but the fact is Russia is now a democracy, (granted, it is strugling with corruption very much like a person with cancer). But what I'm trying to say is, I think it's a bad idea to label a country which is making an effort to move away from it's totalitarian past as a nuclear threat and target. You don't tame a wild animal by forcing it into a corner. And if your argument is that any other country with nukes should be targeted, where is France in the list? India? Pakistan? Now in all fairness, this was leaked report, not intended for the general public....but I still don't like it.

[Wobble 1]

the plan only reall matters if its carried out..

Im usre Russia has a plan for if the US invaded it.. and vice versa.. a plan is just a plan.. as long as no active steps (buildup, mass troop movments) take place.. its really nothing more than some guy going "what if"

It all makes sense because one conspiracy theory which makes allot of sense when you read all the stuff in detail is that the US knew September 11 was going to happened and they planned it...the plan has been in the making for the past 4 years...and the heart of it is the US's plan to control the world...that was the main idea behind the whole thing and now when I hear them getting nukes ready it just all comes together once again....most people will say this is bullshit but don't blow something off tell you have fully read what everyone has to say...though where I read this I don't have to post at the minute......

god, im about due for my next"idiot of the month" award..

isnt your village missing its idiot about now.. loser 1 post wonder, fuck off.

[evilbyfar 0]

LMAO this is rogue2020....I wont post again but I had to make one post or 2....I'm really done with the forum scene because I have been banned from everyone I ever went to and it's not worth the stress.....

Don't even worry mod who banned me which I'm not sure which one it was now but I wont come back.....I doubt I'll even sign up for a forum ever again...I enjoy talking about stuff on them but I can't take people looking over my shoulder on everything I type....I say pissed and oh it gets edited and I'm asked not to say that...I just can't take that kind of shit.....it's been nice while it lasted on what forums I have been to but oh well the world is not ready for poor old rogue......so long and good bye.....

P.S.

I'm not fucking sorry for saying LMAO at that guy with the problem he had...he sounded kinda like he was joking to me and I do have my own fucking problems....you mod can kiss my motha fucking ass.....FUCK YOU....think I need to put up with all this shit....fuck off.....but nope this will probably be deleted also and a message oh he said something bad like some little fucking kid as all the mods act...placebo is the only half way alright mod I have ever seen...the rest are fucking DICKS!!!!!!!!!1

[christophercles 0]

No, they seem to have left the bit that shows you are an immature little bastard.

Anywho, who are the russians to ask for a report on the U.S plans? They still have nuke subs in the seas with pre-programmed targets.

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ Mar. 12 2002,01:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and the Russians should be the last people to point a finger at anyone.. seeing as how for many years they were the Nuclear arms superstore for any 3rd world nuttjob with enough money to buy one..  <span id='postcolor'>

Yet the only nuttjob ever to have used nukes in anger is... U.S.

[LauryThorn 0]

i don't care about plans.

What is concerning is that US is now re-thinking their nuke-using policies. They are thinking that maybe nukes can be

used even when there are still other ways left..

But wasn't that exactly what was done in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Japan was ready to surrender.. But still the bombs had to be dropped, just to show off...

[Wobble 1]

Japan was ready to surrender.. But still the bombs had to be dropped, just to show off

incorrect, major misconception..

Jopan had talked to the russians to negotiate a surrender.. with the US but their terms would have never been accepted..

they were: (among other things)

A: that they be allowed to keep all the area they took during the war.

B: that the US downsize its carrier force to that of Japan..

at the outset of the war the US said only unconditional surrender from Japan would be accepted.. so the "about to surrender" was BS.. they would only surrender if they got everything they wanted.. which would never have been accepted..

the US dropped the bombs because it had been proven that every Japanese would fight to the death or commit suicide, including civilians.. so if the US had to invade Japan's main island (honshu?) then that would mean that every man woman and child would fight to the death or commit suicide

remember to the Japanese the Emporer was LITERALLY a living god, and their god said death is better than surrender..

during the island hopping it was well known and seen that japanses families would throw themselves off cliffs or kill themselves whith hand grenades ISSUED TO THEM for just that purpose.. and Japanese soldiers would rather charge into machine gun fire with a sword drawn than be captured..

the the US's options (aside from Japan's insane "surrender" terms) were

A: invade mainland Japan and let every man, woman or child fight to the death or commit suicide..

B: drop this new weapon and show Japan once and for all that there is no chance they can win and hope the decide to surrender..

aslo.. remember the US could just as eaisly have dropped either of the atomic bombs on Tokyo itself.. and destroyed MANY MANY more people and likley the emporer himself..

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were industrial cities base around large plants and refineries.. so they were totally valid targets..

the US could have very easly made the country of Japan cease to exist.. I doubt that after the underhanded undeclared attack and the MASSIVE amount of rape, murder and torture that the japanese commited as the rule and not the exception... I doubt that anyone (allies) would give less than a shit if the US decided to just take Japan for itself... but insted it let them keep their emp and then after the war helped rebuild it..

the Nukes saved more lives than they ever could have taken considering without them the invasion of Japan would have probably have had to be done to get them to surrender.. and that would mean that by law of their god every single person in Japan would have to fight to the death or kill themselves..

[WisdoM 1]

Have we not already established that fact that this has been going on for years? We know that America is not going to launch nukes, How do I know this? Because if we were going to believe me it would have already been done. What about all the countries with their nukes pointed at the U.S., oh yes I forget LauryThorn in my sides only objective is to try and degrade teh U.S. as much as possible, whenever the oppurtunity presents itself! I'm going to American websites, and grabbing as many fellow Americans as I can to come to this pathetic forum, so that for once we have the majority here, then we can all join in togehter and belittle and degrade your country and point out everything you have ever done wrong, then we will see how you mother fuckers feel about that.

[Black Op 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Murda Inc @ Mar. 12 2002,08:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Have we not already established that fact that this has been going on for years? We know that America is not going to launch nukes, How do I know this? Because if we were going to believe me it would have already been done. What about all the countries with their nukes pointed at the U.S., oh yes I forget LauryThorn in my sides only objective is to try and degrade teh U.S. as much as possible, whenever the oppurtunity presents itself! I'm going to American websites, and grabbing as many fellow Americans as I can to come to this pathetic forum, so that for once we have the majority here, then we can all join in togehter and belittle and degrade your country and point out everything you have ever done wrong, then we will see how you mother fuckers feel about that.<span id='postcolor'>

i thought you had stopped acting like this?

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ Mar. 12 2002,09:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the Nukes saved more lives than they ever could have taken considering without them the invasion of Japan would have probably have had to be done to get them to surrender.. and that would mean that by law of their god every single person in Japan would have to fight to the death or kill themselves..<span id='postcolor'>

I'm not going to fight with you about this. Already done that. But I'm sure that somebody somewhere could explain the 9/11 thingy very nicely and also point out how many lives the attack actually helped to save. The thing is, the history is written by the winners and thus it is impossible to say just how many lives actually were saved, if any.

But of the ABC-weapons, the nukes are far worst. They kill a lot of people, but they also destroy the only real inheritance we give to our children: The genetic code. As far as I'm concerned, their first use can NEVER be justified.