Arma 2 singleplayer gameplay and AI straw poll

[Bahger 10]

Gents, I will probably get the game today but, not having the time to play too much MP -- where I know ArmA 1 could really shine -- I have experienced much frustration with OFP's and ArmA 1's SP gameplay, specifically friendly AI limitations in following orders effectively while making some effort at self-preservation, utilising cover, etc. I believe SP should function as a testing ground for MP gameplay yet for me, if I cannot, using sound tactical judgement, order a squad to flank or supress effectively enough under fire so that I can maneuver another squad with some confidence, then the tactical AI is simply not capable of fulfilling this purpose. I know it's a tall order; it's got to be easier for buddy AI to impress in the more contrived environment of an on-rails or scripted tactical shooter where freedom of maneuver is essentially a cleverly-wrought illusion but MP alone does not justify the purchase of ArmA 2 for me. The demo has made me cautiously optimistic, as I see much better use of cover and orientation to the threat by friendly AI as well as better harmonisation between the orders interface and the subsequent actions of the squad. However, the demo does not include a mission in which the player can command a squad.

Before I finally click "buy" could you comment and/or communicate your opinions via the poll? Many thanks.

[Dourdog 10]

Well. some of the missions are still broken at the moment. you can work around them but i dont see why you should have too. there is alot on this in the mission part of the forum, but be aware there are alot of spoilers.

Tacticaly the ai are good. there are still sticky moments when i will shout and screem at them untill the other half comes in and tells me to shut up. they will however cover each over while moving (not you unless you keep the same pace) if you tell them to.

remain cautiously optomistic is the best advice i can give you. there are times when i just think, that was awsome and then there are times when i want to tear my hair out.

go on, you know you want to :P

[Bahger 10]

Sage counsel, Dourdog, many thanks.

[dvolk 10]

The campaign is horrible. Even if it worked--and it doesn't--it's still plain bad. And I thought the ArmA 1 campaign was pretty entertaining.

The few included missions are decent but nothing to write home about.

The key to single player is downloaded missions (I recommend the ports from OFP) and messing around in the editor. Thanks to modules like Ambient Combat and Secondary Ops you can just drop them in and have some emergent fun. It's not as satisfying as a well designed mission, but it passes the time.

[bonchie 39]

The above poster is full of it.

The campaign is indeed broken in several places once you get about 2/3's through it, but it's nowhere near horrible and is vastly better then ArmA1. There are several dynamic missions with multiple objectives across the map that are just great, where you control the chopper and mark your lz's and approach things the way you want to.

It's not great, but when fixed, it has a decent story and mission progression. It's more like OFP in the sense that you aren't just some noname soldier fighting in random big battles like Arma1.

[Zipper5 74]

dvolk's always whining about ArmA II so don't listen to him. ArmA II's campaign is vastly superior to ArmA's.

But in terms of AI ArmA II's is also vastly superior to ArmA's. In the simplest of areas, they now lean, strafe, dodge and roll. But in the more complex areas, they cover one another, use real-life tactics like bounding overwatch, make very good use of cover and can outflank you very well. They also get suppressed by sustained fire, but that also means they can suppress the crap out of you. Especially after you've revealed your position. One of the AI in the squad will take up a covered position and keep an eye on where he last saw you. Or, if you get shot and move to cover to heal, I've had AI sneak up on me and shoot me in the back.

Simply put - ArmA II's and ArmA's AI are not even comparable.

[froggyluv 2130]

I'm having a blast playing the campaign and I actually feel a sense of camraderie with my AI squaddies. Commanding your AI in Arma1 was indeed a chore and I was often relived when they were killed so I could move around without "2" getting stuck behind a potted plant. In Arma2 you'll notice your guys can navigate pretty damn well even in urban areas and when you tell them to approach the enemy position they will advance using natural cover rather than just march straight ahead and go prone/die. You'll also find youself needing to use the stealth/combat/aware combat attitudes far more frequently as that majorly effects their ability to keep up with you. I was very satisfied when I ordered two of my squaddies to a position point on the second floor of a pretty mazelike factory structure and they took it no problem, ladders and all, and effectively called out and 'sniped' enemies from their position.

Still room for improvement of course, but overall I'm a very happy Sp.

[dvolk 10]

It's not great, but when fixed, it has a decent story and mission progression.

Why are you using present tense? Patches so far are like spiting into the ocean as far as the campaign is concerned.

It's more like OFP in the sense that you aren't just some noname soldier fighting in random big battles like Arma1.

It's like OFP in that vague sense but in no other sense whatsoever. OFP had something like 40 tightly scripted missions and ArmA 2 has maybe 5 small and 5 big sandbox missions that are so extremely bugged playing them is an exercise in pure frustration. It's also disappointingly short when you account for the time you spent replaying because of bugs.

I guess BIS should be glad that reviewers only play an hour or two because the campaign holds its own in the beginning. If reviewers actually tried to finish games ArmA 2 would get a lot of 1/10s.

[crowfoot 0]

campaign is horrible!!!

[topeira 10]

the SP is sometimes buggy, but i havent played it all the way through. went half way though and had only 1 bug where i was supposed to talk to someone that would give me info about my next mission but in the middle of his monologue he just shut up and doesnt continue talking to give me the objective.

also this bug happened 2 consecutive times :P

BUT, i am mainly making my own missions in the editor and with the things u can create in 5 minutes in the editor i am having a lot more fun than i had playing ARMA1 entirely.

while the AI is kinda the same, they are better. not as great as the better FPSs out there BUT still better than aram1. these guys usually are faster to react (friendlies react faster to your orders and enemies react faster to threats) and better at finding the enemy and killing him. these factors alone make every skirmish better and fun.

if i have like 30 minutes to kill i just throw a bunch of AIs in on the island, give every squad a "guard" way point and put a trigger to trigger the end condition and voila - im done. instant skirmish in 2 minutes.

just play the demo, mate. u'll get a better idea of everything. dont trust our opinion. especially not mine :P

[bascule42 10]

Not taking part in the poll, I missed ArmA completely so Im going to compare it to OFP, which my answer would be: "pretty much the same". As for the camapign, honestly, it was awful. Saying that though, I hated the Cold War Crisis campaign in OFP, and despite what others may think, I thought Red Hammer was a massive improvement, and it really hit the mark with Resistance. Harvest Red though...naah, not for me. I saw it as a long tutorial, and an excersise in completing large missions solo. The campaign is only a tiny part of ArmA2, like OFP, (and ArmA), the game shines from other users creating missions, and of course your own creations. Easy, intuitive, and a ton of info and help for more advanced stuff.

[walker 0]

Hi all

I would say the AI is good in MP too we were doing some experiments on Zeus altering difficulty in config etc. same as most clan servers are doing. We found the AI at the upper end to be very human like, retreating and waiting for reinforcements. More importantly when you cannot spot the uniform because of light conditions, one of the battles was in a forested area, it is hard to tell AI from human by movement any longer. They dodge around take cover etc. Their big wide flanking maneuvers while other suppress is very human and reminiscent of better human PvP players.

I also like the fact the if you get a mobility kill the turret remains manned, again that is what a human player does.

I was playing "Longest Day" earlier today a whole bunch of us got a T90 cornered round the back of a building. I think it had already been hit in the tracks. We had been chasing it round the airfield, and it by turns had been chasing us. It had killed quite a few of us, but several people had got close hits with M136, I had killed its Vlodnik budy and some of its infantry and others had killed its two Tunguska buddies and a BTR 90 that were with it. I do not know who had killed the KA52 but we were at last able to land helicopters at the airfield and we had been blowing up the SU34s outside the hangers with satchel charges. There was only the T90 left. We had been fighting the airfield battle for a couple of hours. It was a seen reminiscent of stoneage humans hunting mamoths very primal.

While others distracted it I shot my 2nd from last SMAW round into its backside. Engine kill, but just like a human all that happenned was that it made it real mad. The fire rate suddenly quadrupled. I got hit, wounded through the wall as I retreated, lots of "whining oh my leg" a good feature that, as I tried to scamble up a rubble patch next to the wall, with bullets spanging through the wall all around me, untill I got further back from the corner. It fired a shell at the other side; then it was methodically shooting both corners of the buildings. I reloaded went to the opposite corner where I saw the destroyed building where the shell had hit and took out some one with an M136. I threw some smoke for a little bit of concealment but it bounced too far so it only gave me partial cover. It was only a half chance I should have just waited until the fire slackened more or it ran out of Ammo; as I lent out to takes the shot it got me with a burst. I redded out then was writhing on the floor with only my head in TrackIR under any kind of control. It was still hosing both corners of the building and the rubble where I saw two of the guys who had been with me intending to pop the crew if they bailed, they were now crouched behind a broken wall with rounds spanging all around them, one looked wounded I took another couple of rounds and I blacked out dead.

Personaly I think the AI in ArmA II is the best I have ever seen in any game.

The fact it takes the combined power of a couple of squads of human soldiers to kill a cornered mobility kill AI T90 seems about right to me.

As others have said Dvolk is a professional whiner. He even tried to start a myth with a video that you cannot be killed with a head shot. Just ignore him.

Kind Regards walker

Edited July 2, 2009 by walker

[Placebo 28]

I guess BIS should be glad that reviewers only play an hour or two because the campaign holds its own in the beginning. If reviewers actually tried to finish games ArmA 2 would get a lot of 1/10s.

And despite repeated warnings about trolling which you ignored you still continued, Infraction +2 for trolling again, which now takes you to 5 and a permanent ban.

[Antichrist 0]

Enjoying it a lot at the moment. It is much better than Arma 1.

[JOGR 0]

I agree with this poll.

I don't play the campaign though. I spend more time in the editor then on the battlefield, and so far the AI is delivering above expectations.

[Bahger 10]

Well, I took your good advice and set up a little village assault mission in the Demo editor. I split my Marine unit into two teams and sent the AI team around a wooded area to flank while I led the other team to another vantage point. I was happy to see that the AI did not walk into a hail of gunfire as they would have in ArmA1 but that they made decent, if imperfect, use of cover. Still too many WIAs, though, a partial solution to which was to give them a "flank right" order rather than "go there", which appears to assign a bigger priority to reaching a destination rather than surviving the attempt. So, as you've all said, it's much better but not perfect and it's going to take a little patience to figure out when/how to micromanage the AI and when to let them do their thing. A good enough experience to justify purchase of game, thanks for all your input in this thread.

[f2k sel 164]

I've been playing with the AI and when attacking me they seem much better than ArmaI and seek out cover, however the AI in my unit seem to have no clue what to do.

They Ai will follow me but stand in the middle of the street trying to shoot it out and from then on I don't seem to have much control over them, if I order the medic to move to my location he goes off and joins the fight, I've never been able to use him to heal myself.

[frederf 0]

I was happy with how the campaign began and the most impressed near Manhattan where the game devs seemed to actually trust in my ability to think for myself and give me freedom of action.

Then I got to Badlands and playing a mostly broken single player Warfare mission my level of being impressed dropped by about 90%.

[JOGR 0]

I've been playing with the AI and when attacking me they seem much better than ArmaI and seek out cover, however the AI in my unit seem to have no clue what to do.

They Ai will follow me but stand in the middle of the street trying to shoot it out and from then on I don't seem to have much control over them, if I order the medic to move to my location he goes off and joins the fight, I've never been able to use him to heal myself.

Make sure to put your team (especially infantry) in "Danger" and "Keep low".

Also, using Line formation in open ares (with flanks covered) and Column on streets seems to work the best. They still spread out taking cover from behind walls and such.

In urban areas I also use "Advance" a lot while covering my team from behind checking the flanks. Normally, my team advance in a leap frog manner covering each other automatically.

[f2k sel 164]

Make sure to put your team (especially infantry) in "Danger" and "Keep low".

Also, using Line formation in open ares (with flanks covered) and Column on streets seems to work the best. They still spread out taking cover from behind walls and such.

In urban areas I also use "Advance" a lot while covering my team from behind checking the flanks. Normally, my team advance in a leap frog manner covering each other automatically.

Cheers I'll try that out tonight.

I did sort out the medic, I had deleted the first aid module at some point.