1-6 Behind Enemy Lines

[plundera 10]

Hi Laggy,

Loving this mission. Sure to be a classic worthy of Wikipeida!

Just one request: Would it be possible to have an 'extreme' version with the random encounters increased 250% and (if easy) double the number of tracker units? While it's challenging at the moment, an insane extreme version would be fantastic. I know it's probably asking to much.

Cheers anyway for a fantastic mission

[CaptainBravo 0]

What I would recommend for next version to add more tension:

- Helicopters searching for west group and based on sighting, trucks (even helicopter) repsawn 200 meters from player group and unload troops to go to last known position.

[laggy 0]

Thanks all for your feedback,

All taken into account, I promise.

Just one request: Would it be possible to have an 'extreme' version with the random encounters increased 250% and (if easy) double the number of tracker units? While it's challenging at the moment, an insane extreme version would be fantastic. I know it's probably asking to much.

Well, the random spawning of enemies (air, armor, infantry) is all done by the ACM module (ambient combat manager) built into the ArmA2 engine. I have a number of editor placed groups patrolling the map as well, but much of the randomness is really created by the ACM.

I find it problematic that the ACM is very unpredictable when you set its intensity (ranging from 0-1). It is set to the highest (1) in this mission, but still sometimes enemy spawning is very rare. I really wish BIS would adjust the ACM so that its intensity factor really makes a difference, ranging from very easy to really crazy (like you wish).

I guess I could create my own workaround scripts, but that would be very complicated, and then I might just create another mission. Hopefully BIS fixes this issue instead :)

I will take care of the mid/late part of the mission a bit more in the next release though.

Thanks again all,

Laggy

---------- Post added at 18:09 ---------- Previous post was at 18:07 ----------

Is it possible to take a civilian bus or ural?

Of course :)

[plundera 10]

Thanks for the response Laggy

Understood re: the limitations of the ACM module. I certainly concur the variance around enemy density is very high from our experiences. I appreciate there is no quick fix also.

Based on that my only suggestions would be:

>More set piece units in the back half of the map. The dog chasers make it tense in the first half. Some kind of equivilent for the back half would be great (someone mentioned a Mi8 hunter script might be easy to implement?)

>A few roaming solo snipers in a few of the forested areas where players might avoid the main roadways. There known presence would keep things tense at all times (I'm certain you've seen the movie "Behind Enemy Lines"!) .

>Static defenses on each major road at some stage, particuarly at major towns

>Some final horrible 'surprises' just outside Chernogorsk, just when you think your home

Thanks again - awesome mission in its current form (my suggestions are only due to my lust of an extreme challenge). I think it's a real winning reciepe "escape against overwhelming odds".

[mlenser 10]

Not a complaint at all as it has no effect on the game play but although I have completed the mission twice with only having lost the pilot it never shows a green completed icon in the main mission selection list.

[CaptainBravo 0]

The ACM is unpredictable and that explains why in some cases the mission was way too easy. (played it at least 12 times and finished it in 11 out of 12 with less than 2 casualties (enemies will stop giving chase once you have outrun them by a bit).

I recommend using Norrins UPS spawn script, more predictable and scalable and will add to intensity which this mission has already. It just needs that little extra spice for those of us who like it HOT! :)

[laggy 0]

Looking into the UPS right now, seems promising.

Thanks for the tip.

Laggy

[mcvittees 0]

Just played this with 6 people on a dedicated server and once we got past the rather hasty attack at the start, didn't really get troubled at all.

I'd recommend putting some plain and simple spawn triggers down to guarantee some contacts. You know where the players will end up so making sure they have some action shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[laggy 0]

"Last" version coming out very soon,

"Spiced up" the mission after "half-time",

Thanks for all the good feedback...

Laggy

[plundera 10]

Sounds great Laggy, looking forward to it

[laggy 0]

Mission updated to version 0.98

Anyone who now finds it too easy is either extremely lucky, great at ArmA2 or CRAZY ;)

Laggy

Edited September 29, 2009 by laggy

[plundera 10]

Hey Laggy,

Finally finished it last night after many attempts with 2 players.

>Once we could recognise the spawn 'pattern' of the enemy around the chopper in the initial phase it was easy to get to Gorkja or Novy Sober and get a car.

>The left flank of the map proved to be consistency dangerous with numerous patrols and UAV's calling in what we believe were motar attacks. Very cool.

>The tracker chopper was a real b@stard. Especially the large team of Spec-Ops which seem to have an extreme degree of skill! Our tactic was to attain an RPG from an early skirmish near the downed chopper, then ambush it in a clearing from covered terrain. Opening fire on it before it was vunerable was suicide. Very neat 'surprise'.

>We occasionally met a BMP patrol which appeared to track... we were able to evade it due to its low speed.

>We took out the parked armed 4x4's at Morlikevia (spelling?) and basically drove one through a roadblock to victory.

All in all difficulty was certain up on .97.

Cheers,

[laggy 0]

Thanks a lot for your feedback Plundera,

Did you host or play on a dedi?

Dedi players have sometimes complained about lack of action.

Laggy

[plundera 10]

Hi Laggy,

I host, although we are considering setting up a dedicated box, as hosting seems to shave off a few FPS on the large scenarios.

I'd say every time we have played .98 it has been pretty tense the entire time given the prospensity of the random encounters. Based on our observations, in particular the left flank of the map, or really, the 'top' left quater was particularly 'hot' (we have even seen Jets patrolling this area a couple times!). On the top right quater, after evading the static BMP + squad it is generally quiet all the way down to the main highway (after staying hard right) where I believe the tracker chopper trigger point is. The center tends to be quiet dangerous with patrols near the forest roads great at giving an ambush. We don't have that much experience on the back half of the map however as we tended to keep to the same route until we completed it. The road blocks were a nice touch although couldn't stop us due to their reaction time. Perhaps some static MG's to force players to either engage to use the roadway, or evade through the forest. We were surprised we could drive straight out from Moglivka after taking out the presence there.

While I'd say it was 'hard' there does appear to be an experience curve effect. After we had experience evading the inital groups (or engaging one to fight our way out from the crash site) we usually stuck to a similar plan. The degree of randomness is reasonably high so there was always some surprises though.

I certainly wouldn't say no to an even greater challenge!.. maybe the odd armour patrol!

The only other point I would make is using roads 'seemed' a little to easy (noting the roadblocks do exist however)... perhaps a few more of those jeep patrols or even the odd BMP patrolling. This would force the player to transverse in the wilderness to remain 'hidden' which is perhaps more realistic

Edited October 20, 2009 by plundera

[laggy 0]

Thanks a lot for the very good info Plundera.

Much appreciated and I believe the mission is now quite finished.

Will touch up a few more things (maybe road forces) and then release 0.99 version.

That will be final, I really have to continue my new projects.

On OFPEC, some MP beta testers (at least on dedi) have complained about lack of action.

90% of the testers have really liked the mission though, and I guess that is a good ratio, considering the massive randomness.

Cheers and thanks again,

Laggy

Edited October 20, 2009 by laggy

[Col.Flanders 0]

Hi laggy. Last night I played this with one other player and all I can say was it was bloody epic!

I ordered my game from the UK 6 or so days after the German release and received it about 2 weeks ago (big screw up in the post) so I have very few hours in A2 but for me, I can confidently say that it was one of my best co-op experiences since OFP.

Great stuff!

[jumpinghubert 49]

i like your Mission. I think its inspired by this film http://video.barnesandnoble.com/DVD/Behind-Enemy-Lines/Gene-Hackman/e/024543038030

Would be nice to see a campaign like this film!

regards from germany

[Mclan 10]

This is a great mission, help me find back OFP feeling! Many thanks!

[laggy 0]

i like your Mission. I think its inspired by this film http://video.barnesandnoble.com/DVD/Behind-Enemy-Lines/Gene-Hackman/e/024543038030

You think right, although there are several other sources of inspiration as well.

Thanks all for the nice words.

Laggy

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Just played through it solo on a dedi server. Took me about 2.5 hours walking (not jogging) for the most of the time. A trip on the can midgame killed half the men :) Horrible night conditions with no moon makes a non NVG run completely impossible. Kinda reminds me of Rescue Dawn which we re-saw yesterday.

I couldn't get the pilot to react, so he became stuck. I had to drop the radio to get rid of his constant nagging :D Maybe that's the reason the mission wouldn't end when we got to base. Not sure. I didn't have much encounters except for the beginning and what appeared to be a scripted chopper event, but the suspense was there all the time. I loved it. Although it ended up quite easy for me, I never knew it was easy. Since solo on dedi, there was no reloads or turning off grass cheats available.

A nice break from the constant fighting missions.

Edit: Maybe parameter options for:

Weather, adds replayability value

Time and day, ditto.

View distance (far too much for woodland fighting, affected my performance badly)

NVG availability (if no NVG, then choose a day with moon)

Maybe removing the GPS could have been a nice touch

Removing the map and radio for other members, having to resort to directChat could have been nice.

General ACM activity/density: Normal, Low, High, Random.

Remember, this is a downed chopper. A lot can go wrong. Such as fuel leaks destroying some of the equipment. Just giving you some ideas :)

The only real annoyance was having to drag along the AIs. Although I was able to keep them on hold fire (for the most of the time), the problem is that sometimes Arma2 forgets to update formationDirection. I was for the most time in staggered column, and in some cases "enemy man, behind" was actually in front of us, and I had all the guys in front of me while walking. This is a horrible bug in Arma2 which I hope gets fixed eventually, and since I played without any GUI aids enabled I rarely had any idea what my guys actually reported.

It is stated that AI should not be disabled for this mission. Why is this? What's the technical problems of doing so? I thought of modding it a little for our next clan session to get rid of the AI, and make it a bit tougher (not enemy and fighting wise).

Edited October 22, 2009 by CarlGustaffa

[plundera 10]

Hey Laggy,

An news on an update? Can't wait for the final release

[laggy 0]

Hi CarlGustaffa and thanks for the solid feedback.

The multiple parameters are a great idea and I'll consider it, really want to move on to my next mission creations though.

Losing the GPS is really a cool thing I haven't thought about yet, getting lost adds tension, Thank you!

It is stated that AI should not be disabled for this mission. Why is this? What's the technical problems of doing so?

Many conversations between the team members are possible (adds atmosphere, I think).

If the units don't exist = No conversations = Less atmosphere.

The dogs also track random units in the players group, so "deleting" them creates problems.

The end trigger also senses when ALL group members are present (leave no man behind), and if they have been "deleted" the trigger doesn't activate.

Laggy

---------- Post added at 18:23 ---------- Previous post was at 18:22 ----------

Hey Laggy,

An news on an update? Can't wait for the final release

Hopefully in a couple of days, my "real" life is a bit hectic right now.

Thanks for asking.

Laggy

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Ok, that explains the no ending for me. I was forced to leave the pilot behind as he didn't react to any commands.

On replay, we tried turning off the intro form the parameters. But now nothing would work properly. No dogs and no acm stuff. Also, the amount of helicopter activity was alarmingly high compared to the foot units.

The start is insanely hard (for us), but mostly due to the location. Grass is killing us. While the AI is sniping us through it, we have abolutely no idea where they are, because of the terrain layout (slightly on a hill). It depends too much on replay attempts and dumb luck we feel. Would be great if the start was easier, but with random locations so that we couldn't preplan how we solve it.

[laggy 0]

Ok, that explains the no ending for me. I was forced to leave the pilot behind as he didn't react to any commands.

Shoot him when he doesn't obey orders, that's what I usually do. That phenomenon is an ArmA2 bug to which I plead "NOT GUILTY!". Annoying when it happens (even if extremely rare) and I hope BIS will fix it.

On replay, we tried turning off the intro form the parameters. But now nothing would work properly. No dogs and no acm stuff

That is a bug happening on dedicated server, that I "managed" to create in version 0.98, it is fixed in upcoming 0.99.

Sorry about that, but making the mission work perfectly as SP, hosted MP and on dedicated server was quite a struggle.

As hosted MP it still works well to turn of the intro, and in version 0.99 the mission works exactly as it should in all types of game, including on dedicated.

I would wait to play it again until version 0.99. That will be the final build.

Thanks again for the feedback and heads-up.

Laggy

Edited October 26, 2009 by laggy

[Pandy 0]

I like the video, pretty sweet looking and I love the humor in the intro!