Can the AI see through grass? Some testing.

[Majormauser 0]

The real issue here is If your Prone and the Enemy is Prone. The Enemy CAN and Does see through the grass to kill you while all your looking at is a bunch of weeds.

[Cirap 0]

The real issue here is If your Prone and the Enemy is Prone. The Enemy CAN and Does see through the grass to kill you while all your looking at is a bunch of weeds.

I usually go to Third Person when proning behind tall grass. You can shoot at the enemy using your fairly accurate crosshairs

[dvolk 10]

There's no 3rd person view or crosshair on Veteran or Expert.

[Topper Harley 0]

Hi guys,

i just wanted to post something about the nice looking grass and its zero useabilty ingame.

Heres a picture shot from the big rollfield near the ocean.

Problem: with veteran settings (no 3rd person view) you can see just nothing, makes Sniper and LMG pretty useless, but the greater problem is (and thats a serios task to fix) that the KI can see you lying in the gras and will shot very accurate. On that picture i was highly injured from units who where standing near the hangar (no one can manage to kill someone on that distance when hes lying in such a high gras). An option for turning off all the grass would be lovely, without this vegetation the game looks maybe shitty but at least its playable.

greedings Topper

[Heatseeker 0]

Its already possible, just turn ground detail to very low.

It also gives a major performance boost :) .

[spamurai 3]

The problem with ground clutter is that it's a local effect for the player, not for everyone else. So it appears that you are lying in tall grass and well concealed, but your opponent does not render the grass clutter at long distances, so he sees targets from very far away as if they have no ground coverage at all.

Otherwise, the added ground clutter and reduced fields of view is excellent IMO. It just needs to be as functional as it appears fashionable.

[TriggerHappy57 0]

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that grass is not a "local effect" infact in ArmA 1 if you laid down in the grass you would indeed be hidden from another player. The only difference is that from a distance grass tiles are not drawn but the effect of being hidden is accomplished by the player being somewhat or fully submerged in the terrain. I don't see why that would be removed from ArmA II, but I do not own the full game yet. :j:

[whisper 0]

Grass in A2 is different from grass in A1 (in fact, it's A1 grass unpatched), meaning there's no grass layer at distance (in MP, you can be seen when out of player's grass rendering, and AI can see through grass

BI is working on implementing A1 grass

[cartier90 0]

So Im in my Platoon, shooting at OPFOR troops on a hill and I cant see anyone to shoot !. At least not for the first 30 seconds or so. Reason being, foliage, I cant see through leaves. This is all good and well, you cant IRL. My fellow grunts can though, shouting location, type etc.

From the oppositions perspective, it can be difficult to see if 'they' can see through the same leaves obscuring my view - I wont mention the problems that grass causes either - you can flatten only so much.

I appreciate the question has been asked before but, can I / teammates be seen through vegetation ? and do your fellow teammates see through cover to opposition AI. OFP was much simpler - WYSIWYG....

Not bashing the game, its leaps and bounds ahead of the 'competition' - not that their is any...and hopefully the above problems may be solved by patching.

[MadsHilde 10]

Yes, the AI can see you through vegetation and even some larger bushes. Turn terrain detail all the way down and you will have the same advance as the AI and the game doesn't even look that ugly without the small vegetation and you'll get a fps boost too, just try it and see if you likes it. I do...

Trees and big bushes will still be there...

[dvolk 10]

I appreciate the question has been asked before but, can I / teammates be seen through vegetation ? and do your fellow teammates see through cover to opposition AI. OFP was much simpler - WYSIWYG...

Yes, yes, and yes. Not only do they see through cover, but also buildings, hills and vehicles.

This is one of the bunch of stuff in ArmA 2 that's actually worse than OFP/ArmA1.

This was reported on the bug tracker on Day 2 of German release and reviewers complained and there are repo missions, but no words from developers if they even consider it a bug, much less if they'll ever bother addressing it.

But it sucks because it makes it very frustrating playing on veteran/expert without map markings you have no idea wtf your squad is reporting on.

[Praelium 0]

I think part of the problem is that when any teammate see's a unit, the leader automatically knows the units exact location. This gives the impression of the teamleader ordering you to target enemies behind buildings that he had no way of seeing.

Or I could be wrong. In the demo, I put a ton of vehicles and objects inbetween two enemy groups. What happened was that they fired as if the vehicles weren't there, often times wasting the whole clip in the side of a truck. Intrigued, I took the test much further and added many more vehicles, so many that the AI could not have possibly seen through them. And what happened? They still saw eachother instantly and opened fire.

I would still test this more before regarding it as fact, but if the results are valid then that's unfortunate.

[dvolk 10]

Oh it's been assigned to someone

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/1701

Hopefully fixed in next patch.

[maddogx 13]

Apparently Suma assigned it to himself. That's a good sign. :)

[hairydavey 0]

Good job, I have to admit that while playing the 1st Arma I deliberately lowered the grass settings to balance the playing field in singleplayer due to x-ray vision on the AI's part. Nice experiment, kudos.

[cartier90 0]

They see through Hills !!! - surely not....I almost wish I didnt hear that ;) - patch it !...

All the same, stellar game...

Come to think of it, what good was ARMA grass - I have never played ARMA1 - if a player is partially submerged - does the AI detection of you decrease ?, is this an equivalent of behind behind vegetation ?

Edited June 29, 2009 by cartier90

[longers 10]

do they seriously see through hills ? what the ....

[Jimmy the Saint 10]

that was a joke :rolleyes:

[topeira 10]

nice thread. good read.

i wont debate farther about the grass issue as we've read the testing by datter (good job, bud) and we get it - AI can spot u dead on from one grid unit away, however a unit away is 100 meters!

the human players can never see the AI from 100 meters. not even 50 meters.

BIS should test themselves. see from what range THEY (as human players) can spot a prone enemy. i bet its around 10-20 meters. not more if it aint moving.

THAT's the values they should put. no way 100 meters.

a crouching enemy is a completely different thing. i can spot a crouching AI from any distance.

also if the AI sees a player going prone in a location and they can remember him going prone at that location , a moving soldier in prone is still pretty invisible at 100 meters so a soldier should be able to move, even after detected by the AI, at ranges like 100 meters without being seen so quickly. rolling is a different matter.

hearing distance is also rediculous.

DATTER, here's an experiment for you to try and reproduce . see if u get these results as well :

try spawning yourself 20 meters behind enemy AIs. dont move at all. dont crouch. dont prone. dont blink. dont breath. dont do ANYTHING.

they will still turn around and shoot at u.

moreover - set a group of "safe" AIs and set them to patrol AWAY from you. they have their backs to you and shouldnt be able to see u. sneak behind them as quitely as possible (crouch and walk). the instant u get withing a certain range (about 40 meters? give or take) they will turn , detect u and shoot you in the nostril.

MOREOVER, sneak up behind them. get in range in which u assume they can start hearing u, BEFORE they turn to you HIDE behind solid cover (a stone wall was the case in MY experiment) - the AI will AGAIN spot u (with barely making noise. not being visible AT ALL) and shoot at your position.

sure u can do this by sneaking on AIs and never get in LOS. always stay behind a hut or something. once u r in sensing range it doesnt matter if they can see u or hear u - they will know where u r and shoot at u.

its rubbish for any kind of stealth gameplay or any attempt at being clever.

[Alex72 1]

Yes, yes, and yes. Not only do they see through cover, but also buildings, hills and vehicles.

This is one of the bunch of stuff in ArmA 2 that's actually worse than OFP/ArmA1.

This was reported on the bug tracker on Day 2 of German release and reviewers complained and there are repo missions, but no words from developers if they even consider it a bug, much less if they'll ever bother addressing it.

But it sucks because it makes it very frustrating playing on veteran/expert without map markings you have no idea wtf your squad is reporting on.

Listen with a half ear to this guy. Ive been in grass with tanks passing me and AI without being spotted. That guy want to be able to shoot at enemies and still not be revealed from grass - wich isnt realistic as people have ears and can pinpoint your rough direction. So AI will shoot in the general direction their heard the sound from. Ive been shot at after these kind of incidents and i was never hit even though bullets showered around me. Can things get better in ARMA2? Sure and BIS are on it. Thats why we get patch after patch. BIS reads this forum as well so sometimes they discover things cause we posted about it. This is why its important to be constructive as well when posting about problems so they can reproduce the problem and see what they need to do about it. Not just go on and rant.

Check dvolks posts and you'll see hes bullshitting all over this forum. A true troll.

[cartier90 0]

I have found it rather awkward, I really dont want to turn the grass off as it looks great. Will friendly AI be 'blocked' from seeing enemy others as well ? How would this be done, would a percentage value of chance be assigned to a obscured unit. So say, a partially hidden unit has a 25% chance of being seen. The problem is a 'analogue' one, not a matter of being seen or not.

[Drasta 10]

How To Not To Be Seen in OFP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVo4DKYl0yc

[NoRailgunner 0]

Imho AI detection and engaging systems need some extra tests and polishing. AI now is a bit fast and precise discovering who is who.

If the player is the teamleader of AI group they still open fire no matter if they set on Danger/Stealth + Hold Fire. What about a radio call from AI to request open fire on contact(s) instead of breaking orders?

[Ghost 40]

How To Not To Be Seen in OFP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVo4DKYl0yc

That is a great video thank you :D

[Majormauser 0]

Oh god, where's Walker? He'll be here any minute to make the OP do a battery of tests to prove his assumption. :rolleyes:

The AI cannot "see" you through bushes, but can detect you too easily with their spider senses.

If enough people see this as an issue, when does it finally become as issue rather than just shrugging it off as whining?

<edit> This post may seem out of place after the thread merge.

The AI can and does see through low grass where you cannot. This needs to be looked at I think the grass values should be closer to Bushes when you are prone.... where you are very difficult to see. AS it would be in real life. Not the way it is now where the grass is Just graphic Bling and really is not there to the AI. Also the AI can spot you from very far distances.... Distances that make the AI look like dots if you try to shoot them. I can be crawling through the woods come out on the lip of a cliff prone and still get spotted.

Hey I'm all for a tough game but Recruit mode should be looked at to solve this.... Make it unrealistic. ITS RECRUIT mode. Take out the Being wounded part. Marker DOTS should be more visible than they are now. Make it a true Recruit mode so the rest of us can enjoy the game even more. Yes it would be wussy mode but it would be much better for any new player allowing them to enjoy ArmA 2 even more.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Majormauser