IAWS standard definition

[wld427 1705]

just a lil spoiler....the forthcoming move of our PRACS aircraft to arma2 will support this system.

thanks for the heads up and the hard work on the research myke.:bounce3:

[Defunkt 431]

Pleased to hear it. But wasn't somebody working on a script and U.I. so pilots could re-arm on the runway?

[mandoble 1]

Not sure why, but action "useWeapon" in IAWS configured planes has a curious effect when a weapon type runs out of ammo. The remaining bombs or missiles are automatically re-distributed using the empty pilons. Is there any explanation or fix for that?

EDIT:

Found out this effect has no relation with IAWS, it is directly an ArmA2 bug.

Edited October 11, 2009 by Mandoble
Found the reason

[hardrock 1]

Just by the way: The ACES project for OFP tried to achieve pretty much the same. You can find it for OFP bundled together with the Eurofigher Addon. I think it also has been ported to ArmA.

Maybe you can find some script code in there that's of any use to you. Especially all the proxy handling system has been worked out pretty well, I guess.

[-GCA- Salah ad Din 10]

Hi,

nice to see some standards created for Arma2 addons.

Question1: will this work for choppers, too?

Question2: how compatible is that with Mandomissiles (I saw that Mandoble posted here, so I guess compatibility should not be a problem)

Question3: when is it ready :D

[PhilippRauch 0]

looks sweetsome, just when do you beta it ? So i as dev, can takealook and then build my models accordingly .. you know, many devs wont like to make stuff for an addon thats never going to be released. Also for testing that my ordnance works on my plane it would be nice to get alook ..

But that being said, its a very good idea and i really see forward to it, being used to great extend. (Im quite confident that i will ;) )

Edited January 14, 2010 by PhilippRauch

[slatts 1978]

think i might use this for the irish mod once we make our pc-9 :D

working on some gun pods by FN

http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=498

will be a while on this though with other stuff to do :P

more of a heli weapons,but planescan take it too

Edited January 14, 2010 by Slatts

[allewille 10]

So... How do you use IAWS?? Is it like a separate addon or what?

[[frl]myke 14]

@allewille

First of all it is a procedure definition on how to build up addons. Hopefully there will be an addon (Module most likely) that will allow pilots to change theyr weapon loadout midgame without the need to change the plane.

@All

:ADDITION:

The definition needs an small extension. Right now it isn't defined to which (manufacturer) side weapons and/or plane belongs to. So there is no possible mechanism to avoud loading AIM-9X on a SU-34, as example. So i extend the definition with an additional rule:

Weapon and/or plane manufacturer side has to be defined with the following line:

iaws_side = "WEST";

Possible values are "WEST" or "EAST".

Be aware that this isn't related to which side a plane belongs to but which side produced the plane and/or weapon. So a F-35 could be set to EAST but neverttheless it is a WEST side manufactured plane so it probably shouldn't use weaponry made by EAST.

Depending on any upcoming (hopefully) weapon loadout system, Missionmaker may decide to allow crossloading weapons or deny it.

Edited February 26, 2010 by [FRL]Myke

[st3rv 10]

Want me to model some missiles as a part of this? Im bored of my project for now so i need something to keep me occupied...

[[frl]myke 14]

Mate, you're here at the right time. :D

Actually i try to gather as much different missiles and bombs MLODs as possible to unite them in one weaponpack for planes (choppers might use some of them aswell maybe).

That said, i take whatever you can/will give me. Preferably MLOD and texture, normal map and specular map i can do myself but if you want...up to you.

One thing, during this whole gathering process i might end up with several versions of the same missile. In this case i will choose the best model. So at this point i will not give guarantee that your work will be in the pack for sure.

If you still interested, i guess goin for less popular missiles and bombs would be a good idea. Maybe stuff that isn't widely used by US or former USSR. I guess with Sidewinders and Mavericks we're already well equipped. You get the point.

[[frl]myke 14]

Sadly, ACE2 has rejected to make use of IAWS in theyr EASA Module although it would solve some actual problems EASA suffers. Personally i can't understand it. I have my thoughts abt the "why" but these i'll keep for myself wisely. For those who want to know more:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/7196

[TRexian 0]

Voted + on the ticket.

(Recovering flightsim addict.)

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Voted + on the ticket.

(Recovering flightsim addict.)

Same here. Minus the flightsim part. I'm just a MilSim Enthusiast who wants to milk every little drop of realism I can get. :D

[[aps]gnat 28]

Myke, question on the memory lod points.

Are you aware of a method that allows these points to be "queried" via scripts etc?

ie, "search" for a certain point on a model, them position something near that actual point in 3d game space, or even as you intend, can we do a script query to confirm if an object or whatever is "near" a memory point?

[wld427 1705]

i have been thinking alot about this.

I am wondering if we can assign values to specific hardpoint memory points.

Then restrict what can be loaded to that specific hardpoint via the scripting.

PS myke dont worry about not being accepted by ace. We all should just start our own non-ace club:p

[[aps]gnat 28]

Yeh, every hardpoint could have a range of acceptable values (ie weapon types)

[[frl]myke 14]

In fact this is already defined by IAWS since the beginning.

	iaws_pylons[] = {
		{1,"iaws_pylon1"},
		{2,"iaws_pylon2"},
		{4,"iaws_pylon3"},
		{4,"iaws_pylon4"},
		{4,"iaws_pylon5"},
		{4,"iaws_pylon6"},
		{4,"iaws_pylon7"},
		{4,"iaws_pylon8"},
		{2,"iaws_pylon9"},
		{1,"iaws_pylon10"}
	};

The number defines the type (might read it as "accepted size", sort of). This in the planes config, the weapon has this:

iaws_type = 1 + 2 + 4;

The types (size) are categorized like this:

- size 1: small diameter, rather light (AIM-9X, AIM-120)

- size 2: medium/big (AGM-84, AGM-88)

- size 4: small/medium (AGM-65, GBU12, AGM-114), typically multiholders.

- size 8: Big (Cruise Missile, usually only one missile is carried per plane)

[[aps]gnat 28]

Arh, sorry, yes it does.

[[frl]myke 14]

As i received the UK weapons from RKSL-Rock, i saw he has some sort of placeholder weapon which allows to blank out certain hardpoints.

I don't know what Rock already did/scripted with it so i've started a few tests and the results were quite interesting.

Most important, if a magazine is added without the corresponding weapon, the weapons still show up on the plane. For this purpose i guess, Rock designed those invisible weapon models to blank out certain hardpoints as it is needed.

Based on that, i guess it is possible to expand the flexibility to almost everything we could ever need.

Let me share my thoughts and ideas with you and let's see how this turns out.

FFAR Pods:

As said, a empty p3d proxy weapon will fill a hardpoint and so it appears empty. So i guess it's safe to state, a cfgAmmo and cfgMagazine with a FFAR Pod as proxy shape but without related cfgWeapon will also show up.

As we know, FFAR missiles aren't taken into consideration when filling up proxies.

Let us look at a single Wing which has (assumed) a Wingtip hardpoint, a single hardpoint and a multirail hardpoint (as seen on the F-16 next to the fuselage). Obviously on the Wingtip and on the Multirail, the FFAR pod wont fit.

Let us assume we want to have a Sidewinder on the wingtip, a FFAR on the single hardpoint and 3 Mavericks on the multirail. For this example we completely ignore the other wing but you can think of yourself as this would be a symetrical loadout anyway.

So we add magazines in this order:

- Sidewinder

- FFAR Pod

- FFAR Missiles

- 3 round Maverick

So on the plane we would see the Sidewinder, the FFAR Pod and the Mavericks.

As weapons, we add the following:

- Sidewinder Launcher

- FFAR Launcher (which has the FFAR Missiles as related magazine)

- Maverick launcher

What do we get with this? Well, the FFAR Pod magazine doesn't have a Weapon so it can't be fired and will therefor stay where it is while we can fire the FFAR's with the related weapon.

And as the FFAR Pod occupies the single hardpoint, the Mavericks will show up correctly on the Multirail.

Extend this principle with other things.

I think it should be possible to use the same technique to make it work with other stuff.

Multirails on single hardpoints:

Right now, the multirail is "hardcoded" into the model of the F-16 which limits the flexibility. What if i/we take it out there and create also a separate magazine for the multirail?

Well, this would need some other changes in the model aswell, mainly the proxies. Let us focus on one hardpoint and one Mulitrail which has capacity to hold 3 weapons.

So we create a magazine (surely with related ammo first) for this multirail object. At the Hardpoint we add an additional proxy (assuming we already have those from the previous "hardmounted" multirail) which takes place at the hardpoint, like on any other single hardpoint. So if we add a single weapon to this hardpoint, the remaining 3 proxies which would take weapons if there would be the multirail has to be filled with placeholder ammo (empty p3d). But if the multirail magazine is loded (which already fills up this proxy), the remaining 3 proxies will hold whatever weapon would fit there, Mavericks as example.

So, either a weapon is applied to the "new" proxy and the remaining 3 are blanked out, or a multirail magazine is applied and the remaining 3 proxies can take up weapons as usual.

No doubt, all this would require heavy scripting but this could be done within a IAWS module (i'm working with a squadmate to solve this part) so end user wouldn't have to mess with all this said above.

And also this isn't limited to weapons. Also external fuel tanks could be managed like this. Or other equipement that is meant to be placed on hardpoints.

Downsides:

Sure there are but i guess people could live with it.

As FFAR's are spawned at 2 placed and named memory points, they will spawn there regardless on which hardpoint the FFAR is really mounted. This is a visual downside but considering the flexibility this system would allow, i think it is only a minor, since "only" visual, downside.

Let me know your thoughts and ideas. Also already gathered knowledge is always helpful.

Myke out

[[aps]gnat 28]

No doubt, all this would require heavy scripting but this could be done within a IAWS module

Ouch. I was affaid of that (the heavy scripting bit).

About 50% of your discussion here is over my head, but it did trigger a thought I'm going to check out.

Animating the FFAR memory points to see if the game engine will allow them to be moved. From experience some memory points flat out ignore animation.

[[frl]myke 14]

Don't be scared, my friend. I'm working on a "proof of concept" addon to test if it is possible to swap multirails to hardpoints as i guess it. If this works as i hope it does, the Missilebox will include a Module and scripts that will make the work easier for player, missionmaker but also for addonmaker aswell.

If all goes well, the changes that would affect you (and any other plane maker) would be to place several proxies, add a few lines in the config and thats it.

I will write a detailed "how to" if this concept works which makes it easy to include the functionality.

By now i guess for you it would take maybe 30 minutes or less to adapt an existing plane to the new concept.

About being over your head, it is based on the simple fact that magazines are applied to a plane regardless if a corresponding weapon is loaded or not. Already tried that with a single script and you might also check this with the F-16.

_plane = _this;
_plane setVehicleAmmo 0;
{_plane removeWeapon _x} foreach (weapons _plane);
{_plane removeMagazine _x} foreach (magazines _plane);

waituntil {(count (magazines _plane) == 0) && (count (weapons _plane) == 0)};

_weapons = [
"GLT_M61A1",
"GLT_SidewinderLauncher",
"GLT_AIM120Launcher",
"GLT_BombLauncher_Mk82"
];
_magazines = [
"500Rnd_20mm_M61A1_GLT",
"2Rnd_Sidewinder_GLT",
"2Rnd_Maverick_GLT",
"4Rnd_AIM120_GLT",
"2Rnd_Mk82_GLT"
];

hintsilent "Adding weapons";
{_plane addMagazine _x} foreach _magazines;
{_plane addWeapon _x} foreach _weapons;

Place the CAP variant, run this script on it and you will end up with a plane which has visually the Mavericks but when getin in, you can't select them, obviously. This is the base for my actual research and development.

What i'm actually trying to do, is dynamically add/remove multirails and equip those with weapons that might fit. If this proof of concept works, i'll share it with the community.

So, don't be affraid, everything you might have to do (if you want) is adding a few more proxies to the model and several lines to the config for which i will give detailed explanations.