Modelers "work"

[sgt bastard 0]

So noone has used "extrude intersect"? Very usefull if you have three views of the object. Top, side and front.

[dirty_sanchez 0]

  Block modelling is when you start a model with a cube. You Extrude faces, Divide edges, Turn edges and Collapse Vertices..  (These are powerful, I'd expect all video game artists to know all 4 commands and use them constantly..)

Polys are great.  There is no such thing as a game that uses nurbs..  Everyone I work with uses polygons, and everyone I know from any other game company uses polygons.  Even the FMV's (HiRes Movies) are polys,  I'll explain..

N.U.R.B.S. stands for Non-Uniform Rational B-Spline..  A B-spline (usually vector based continuity) is projected onto an object made of polygons. That projection tells the program to add or subtract polys based on the curviture/continuity of your Spline and of that object.. Usually when you modify CV's your pulling around points on the B-spline. When it comes time to render (Whether its for a movie or in-game) NURBS are converted to polygons.

Optimize in 3dmax.. VERY BAD. This is the best way to ruin your model.  If you sent me a portfolio with nothing but nasty edges, there would be no way to redeem yourself. No matter how good your art is..  Try "collapse vertices" and look at your object from all angles constantly.  In 3dmax I usually hit Alt+Middle mouse Button and rotate around my object CONSTANTLY, it helps allot...

Also if your in Subobject - Vertex mode and you have your hotkeys button active (its at the bottom) You can just hit "L" to collapse vertices... (Another powerful one is "V" to make all selected edges visible)

Someone said earlier that keeping low polys is an Art form, and my god is that true..  There is nothing more pleasing to my/any 3d artists eye then a low poly count with beautiful structure and textures that add detail and fake the user into thinking its higher then it really is.. any good 3d artist and anyone in the industry knows this. (common sense..)

NOTE: *This post was not intended to put anyone down or to prove I know more than anyone else. I just happen to know some stuff and thought I'd share with anyone who was interested.*

If any of you moders are working with 3dmax and want some pointers or tips about your models, I'd be glad to help.. But I refuse to spend more then 30min doing anything in 3dmax on my own time . I'm sorry but when you work 10 hour days with 3dmax, the last thing you want to do is come home and start working in it again...  

Peace outside.. Keep modelling =)

[M-N-0N 0]

^^^ he has valid points ... i also make models for games now ... kinda .... but all my work was around HL mods ...

but i have quit all HL mods and only wrked on Tactical ops :AoT ,that is going retail now ...

so that is kinda my first steep... but you know what ... we had to redo virtualy ebery model in TO and drop the weapon models "without hands" to 500 polys  ... 600 MAX!  now that is a hard thing todo and still keep the model looking great!... but if you have a sweet texture artist ... you can make a semi good looking model look absolutly amazing with a great skin ....

Here is a model for Tacops:AoT ... i think this one was just over 600 polys cozz it was a bigish gun .... but all the others were 500 or less

but since i use LW "Light Wave 3D" i tend to make all my model poly by poly ... so i make a whole lotta points then make a face ... and i will use a cylented here and there same as a box .... and it i have to extrude, LW has a nitly tool called a "knife" , so all i can do is cu thro a fave in any place of the model and any angle , and it basicly dose the same as extrude ... but it is more flexable to my likeing.... i am sure 3Dsmax has the same tool dunno but i find it better than makeing extrudes from a command box thing....

[dirty_sanchez 0]

Thats a pretty damn good model... What size are the textures?

I'd love to see the file and check out how you did some things.. It's very possible you could get paid doing this.

email me at j0n@godisdead.com with both model and textures.. *.3ds and *.tga would be great.

Keep up the good work.

[M-N-0N 0]

i send you an e-mail but i forgot the testure size .... with UT you can only have 256x256 textures ... i think for this gun there were 2 testures for it ...

[WKK Gimbal 0]

I made this model with point-by-point modelling. Boolians suck major ass for 99% of modelling, IMHO. Please don't dis point-by-point modelling.

BTW, I also use LightWave like Minion does. LightWave rocks for point-level stuff.

[M-N-0N 0]

woa ... that musta taken ages to do ... or is that finished with nurbing???

looks wicked!

LW 4 EVA!

[aliasalpha 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sgt bastard @ Mar. 08 2002,18:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I did the Leopard in Inventor first. Then export it to 3D-studio. And used Optimize. It cutted the poly-count from 59000 to 8400 polys.<span id='postcolor'>

Umm, isn't it the case that OFP can only support 2000 polys per object? I've heard this from several sources & I'm kinda hoping that they're not ALL wrong (Although this IS the net...)

Can anyone clarify if there's a seperate polycount depending on the object or something similar?

[WKK Gimbal 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (M|N|0N @ Mar. 11 2002,12:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">woa ... that musta taken ages to do ... or is that finished with nurbing???

looks wicked!

LW 4 EVA!<span id='postcolor'>

I was using the point extrude technique, and pulled a whole row of points at a time, which speed up the process. And yes, I then converted the polycage to subdivision surfaces and made further tweaks. It was pretty much the same process Dan Ablan explains in his LightWave books, if you have any of those.

LW 4 EVA

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (aliasalpha @ Mar. 11 2002,12:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sgt bastard @ Mar. 08 2002,18:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I did the Leopard in Inventor first. Then export it to 3D-studio. And used Optimize. It cutted the poly-count from 59000 to 8400 polys.<span id='postcolor'>

Umm, isn't it the case that OFP can only support 2000 polys per object? I've heard this from several sources & I'm kinda hoping that they're not ALL wrong (Although this IS the net...)

Can anyone clarify if there's a seperate polycount depending on the object or something similar?<span id='postcolor'>

It's down to 2800 now. But that is with some interior which shouldn't be there for the "outside lod". There is a topic at OFPEC that clarifies the LODS polycount.

[Konyak-2 0]

Gimbal: I was going to say, if that was pure polygon tweaking, you must be nuts But subdivisions rule for that sort of thing. I use them in Maya (never tried LW), and it´s amazing how nicely they handle organic forms. Sibdivs or not, really nice work there Gimbal. Respect!

Konyak

[Guest]

Hmm you guys confuse the hell out of me, point extrude, nurbs. aggh That model looks outstanding Gimbal. Hopefully one day I'll get to that level of but I've only been modelling about 2 and half months so I dont think I'm doing too badly

How long did it take you to model? How long have you been modelling? How does LW compare up against 3dsmax?

Enough questions for now

[WKK Gimbal 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Armourdave @ Mar. 11 2002,16:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hmm you guys confuse the hell out of me, point extrude, nurbs. aggh   That model looks outstanding Gimbal. Hopefully one day I'll get to that level of but I've only been modelling about 2 and half months so I dont think I'm doing too badly  

How long did it take you to model?  How long have you been modelling? How does LW compare up against 3dsmax?

Enough questions for now  <span id='postcolor'>

Hi Dave - I can't remember how long it took, maybe a couple of days. It was last year I did it, so I can't really remember.

You ask how long I've modeled - about two years.

LW vs. MAX - touchy subject. They both have their strenghts and weaknesses, LW just happens to fit my taste because of it's very extensive modeling toolset and awesome renderengine (it has radiosity, caustics, and infinite layering/blending of UVmaps/textures build in as standard).

Just see how Minion's gun has some kind of special "glow" to the surfaces. It's hard to describe, but I hope that answers it

[M-N-0N 0]

umm hehe that gun is rendered in milkshape 3d by the skinner ... heheh what you see on that model is the actual skin =:s

and yes LW has the better rendering system outta the 2

and max has a great animation sutio .... where LW hasnt realy ....

[dirty_sanchez 0]

Unfortunetly I'm unable to gain access to where you put those images up.. Could you maybe post them here?

[M-N-0N 0]

ahhh damn host ... remove the pic name a put /mdl-pics.html

and it should load a page with the pics on there ... or copy the image addy into your browser and get to them

[WKK Gimbal 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (M|N|0N @ Mar. 11 2002,18:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">umm hehe that gun is rendered in milkshape 3d by the skinner ... heheh what you see on that model is the actual skin =:s<span id='postcolor'>

LOL! That's what happens when I try to sound clever, LOL!

[Hobo Sniper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (M|N|0N @ Mar. 11 2002,18:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">LW has the better rendering system outta the 2

and max has a great animation sutio .... where LW hasnt realy ....<span id='postcolor'>

DAMNIT, and I thought 3DSMAX was good for rendering...

[Guest]

Thanks for answering my questions Gimbal & M|N|ON. 3dsmax's animation tools just get in the way when I'm modelling so I think I'll look into light wave some more

How does it compare in-terms of crashing? That seems to be my biggest complaint with 3dsmax - Near constant crashing, atleast 2 times per hour Is lightwave less prone to crashes?

[Slider131 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Armourdave @ Mar. 12 2002,14:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How does it compare in-terms of crashing? That seems to be my biggest complaint with 3dsmax - Near constant crashing, atleast 2 times per hour Is lightwave less prone to crashes?<span id='postcolor'>

That sounds like a system problem, not a program problem, I run max on a "crappy" system by todays standards - P3 500

and have only ever had max crash once - while doing a very complex P-3c interior, recovered the model through "autosave" but this once instance was in no way representative of an ongoing problem with max.

[Dawdler 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How does it compare in-terms of crashing? That seems to be my biggest complaint with 3dsmax - Near constant crashing, atleast 2 times per hour Is lightwave less prone to crashes? <span id='postcolor'>

My system had the same problems once... Was kind of annoying. I found out though that it was the OpenGL driver that made it crash, Heidi worked perfectly (slightly slower though). Otherwise, like Slider131 said, its likely to be something in the system, not 3DSMAX itself...

On the other hand, we might have stumbled upon the reason games are delayed so much

[Guest]

Slider131: I doubt it's a problem with my system. I'll try running under heidi as I'm currently using OpenGL. Pretty much everyone I know complains of crashes in 3dsmax...Odd

[Konyak-2 0]

I don't use Max anymore, but I do remember it does not mix at all if IE is running, or even has been run on that session. It was a 99% sure way of crashing it.

Armourdave: Nothing can be in the way of your work in any decent program. The GUI is fully customizable in Max, at leas to the point of not having unvanted stuff in your work space. Also, if I remember correctly, press CTRL-X and you get the whole screen to your work

Max is a nice program, for modeling, and people shouldn't worry about the rendering capabilities. Nothing you model for a game will suffer for it, and besides, it's not even considered poor at all. Maybe compared to Lightwave and others, but Maya, that I use now, is said to out perform anything out there, but has a really crappy renderer.

Konyak

[Guest]

I dont run IE, but of course Explorer is constantly running so that does not help Though having said that I have noticed that if I dont run opera whilst also running 3dsmax the crashes are much less frequent.

I tried lightwave this evening. It's a nice layout but just a bit confusing It didn't seem to show me which vertice(s) I had selected or even what object! I think I'll stick with 3dsmax or go hunting for some LW tutorials.

Konyak: I'll try that control + x, thanks

[WKK Gimbal 0]

Armordave, here's a link to the best LightWave site:

http://www.flay.com/

It has a tutorial link section and lots of other stuff.

You should certainly be able to see your selected vertices, hehe!

Cheers