Enemy Accuracy way to good.

[Nicholas 5]

I agree, when I was playin online. I seen a BMP, and there was an enemy AI with it. He seen me run inot hte building, but he kept shooting through the walls, knowing exactly where I was, when I crawled to another room, he ws still shooting me in there when there was no possible way to know I was there, then he started throwing nades at me and killed me. When it showed the death cam, i couldn't see the enemy because he was behidn a tree foliage, and that's also why I could never engage cause i wasn't sure where he was. my verdit: AI have superpower abilities

[walker 0]

Hi all

I was playing ArmA MP PvP and I saw another player run into a house I shot up the walls in the direction he was running then naded the crap out of the house.

Pointers

Bullets will go through house walls, you need two or three thicknesses of wall to stop a bullet.

Grenades should be thrown through windows and at houses you suspect an enemy is in.

WARNING!

It apears the ArmA AI has now learned this so beware!

Would be nice for the AI to clear the house as a group and put a bullet in the head of any one left alive.

Kind Regards walker

Edited June 6, 2009 by walker

[Beagle 684]

A.I. is good as it is. If the player can do, why shouldnt A.I. do the same.

On low skill lever the A.I. is no challenge. You can kill them easily in a dozend before they geht you. On high skill you still have a chance is you just act clever.

What else can we want.

I've seen no better "real" A.I. for in any game like this...maybe because there is no other game like this.

[beita 10]

Simple fact is: AI sees through the clutter grass. Completely worthless for concealment, but it blocks the player's view very well.

This is a known problem (a dev said it will be fixed in a patch).

[fabrizio_t 58]

on a sidenote, let me add i play on "veteran".

If you play on "regular" or less AI is way more forgiving in terms of fire precision!

[Operation Currywurst 10]

Walker I think you missunderstood Mos. He made a video where the ai was fighting against the ai. Could you see any enemies in that video? No you coudnt. Yet the ai (which the camera is observing) managed to get two kills without having any indication on where its enemies were.

[fabrizio_t 58]

Ok, let's make it short:

Question: does ARMA2 AI sees through bushes ?

Answer: NO. I've just checked this in the editor.

Test case:

http://rapidshare.com/files/241634417/check_ai_see_through_bushes.utes.zip.html

[be fast, only 10 downloads allowed ;)]

Be happy.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

IStandard entry seems to be 8999998 or something like that, tone it down to 6777776 and go from there..

Wait a minute. Are you sure this is an integer value? As we know too well, setSkill array never made it to ArmA1, nor is it even listed anymore for the Arma2 commands.

Could it be that this value is some sort of substitute, although on a less desired global scale?

[walker 0]

Hi Operation Currywurst

Thanks for clearing that misunderstanding up Operation Currywurst

Sorry but the video needs to have both sound and higher resolution to make any conclusions from also the context is needed.

When I get ArmA II I would like to run the same experiment so it would be great if he kept the mission so i can download it off him and re run the experiment.

Forgive me if I am sceptical but I have debunked several of these AI is super duper myths in the past so I tend to approach it with a degree of suspicion.

Kind Regards

[fabrizio_t 58]

Just a little video showing that AI DOES NOT see through bushes:

[MBot 0]

Just a little video showing that AI DOES NOT see through bushes:

No through bushes, but through the ground vegetation.

[MoS 0]

thanks Operation Currywurst for the explanation to walker.

As I wrote this was a footage of AI vs AI.

He killed 2 out of 4 soldiers without having a direct line of view to them and that is due to them seeing through the grass - there can´t possible be any logical explanation:

It wasnt surpressive fire (the shots were actually fired precisely and killed 2 out of 4 soldiers)

Neither was there any indication of movement the AI could have seen (sry for the bad quality but I can try to upload the mission and you can see yourself) it will always end the same.

And walker I know that it is easy to call everybody a BF2, CS whatever noob...

but I tell you OFP and ArmA were always my favorite games and I spent uncountably many hours playing them.

I know how the AI has to be treated and I know how the engine behaves.

It is just that it bothers me that the same mistake was done twice as the very same issue occured in ArmA I and was fixed later on but wasnt implemented in ArmA II from the beginning...

[EDcase 87]

^^ Yes, the main discussion here is about the AI seeing through ground vegetation (grass)

I haven't got ArmA2 yet so I'll be testing soon...

The way I think it should work is:

-Shooting from behind cover or concealment, a few shots will make AI react and become aware of your general direction only.

-AI can then scan in your direction or start to move towards you in seek & destroy mode.

-Firing a few more times without moving will make your position known more accurately including distance so they can then start using grenades if within range.

-AI communication to non aware AI should ONLY give your relative direction to them.

In an urban environment its VERY difficult to tell the direction of gunfire so it should take a few more shots for them to home in on your location.

We'll see...

Edited June 6, 2009 by EDcase

[fabrizio_t 58]

^^ Yes, the main discussion here is about the AI seeing through ground foliage (grass)

Ok i see, i wasted 5 minutes of my life :)

[usmc123 1]

It's because the AI cheats, nothing blocks their view, they know where you are everytime you fire a shot.

Well they do have ears, I mean if a shot was fired you should be able to find the general direction of the enemy. I move around after I fire a shot and as an enemy soldier investigates the shot I can shoot him from another position. It seems to work, however, as a sniper you can't do a whole lot. Unless you are in an urban area, than you can move to another building fairly quickly under cover. But out in the open it is near-suicide.

[EDcase 87]

Well they do have ears...

Thats good but I think they get too much information about your position too quickly.

1 shot and they pinpoint you...

Here is a question for BIS devs:

How many states of awareness does the AI have?

From the vids I've seen it seems to be 3

1. Knows nothing (careless)

2. Aware of danger but no threat direction. (goes prone)

3. Knows exact position of target. (as soon as one knows, the whole squad knows)

I think you can observe the way AI handles a lost target. In Cadet mode you see the red target box on an enemy soldier and if he goes behind cover the target box keeps going on the same trajectory.

Edited June 6, 2009 by EDcase

[walker 0]

Hi all

For an experiment to be valid it has to be independently verified.

Make a copy of the mission and let others test it.

Kind Regards walker

[usmc123 1]

Thats good but I think they get too much information about your position too quickly.

1 shot and they pinpoint you...

It is true but like I said, if you are kneeling in some fields and they hear you then a squad of them will start suppressing and one round is bound to hit you within seconds.

[EDcase 87]

It is true but like I said, if you are kneeling in some fields and they hear you then a squad of them will start suppressing and one round is bound to hit you within seconds.

Then the suppressive fire may be too accurate. If they only know your general direction then their fire should keep you on the floor but unlikely to hit you as they are covering a large area.

A test for anyone with ARMA2:

-Put yourself in the open but with plenty of grass coverage.

-Place 3 enemy soldiers 100m/200m/etc away facing away from you in careless mode.

- While prone, fire 1 shot in the air and use 3rd person view to see AI reaction...

Tell us what happens ;)

[Operation Currywurst 10]

There is this big coop mission for 50 people called air cav. It has quite a lot of enemies. But i just managed to get to the city center of the main city of the mission (elektro) by simply running inside and next to the enemies. They dont manage to hit you as long as you dont:

1.stop moving

2.run straight towards them

3.run away from them in a straight line.

This seems to be quite a problem. I can already see "tactics" wher 1 persons rushes into the enemies, draws all the fire on him, so his allies can kill the ai.

Curry

[MoS 0]

Hi all

For an experiment to be valid it has to be independently verified.

Make a copy of the mission and let others test it.

Kind Regards walker

here it is: http://www.speedshare.org/download.php?id=A965E76613

(It goes to My Documents/ArmA 2(or Other Profiles)/YourProfile/missions

I guess everyone can see by themself how it is like from the perspective of a bot

Dont forget to change to Intro mode in the upper right corner

And turn your sound down as the *bing* from all the hint which show the group alive status gets annoying after some time...

Edit: The mission was made with version 1.01 FULL (not beta)

[fabrizio_t 58]

Hmm i read many assumptions here.

For example:

It's because the AI cheats ... they know where you are everytime you fire a shot.

It is simply not true.

About:

How many states of awareness does the AI have?

From the vids I've seen it seems to be 3

1. Knows nothing (careless)

2. Aware of danger but no threat direction. (goes prone)

3. Knows exact position of target. (as soon as one knows, the whole squad knows)

I am no way a BIS developer, but i awas able to design a simple test case for checking that.

The states seems to be 4:

1. Unit is not aware of any threat

2. Unit becomes aware of danger (unit will EVENTUALLY goes prone, depending on knowsabout value - knowsabout value is low)

3. Unit knows the approximate direction (and distance?) of danger (knowsabout value is higher, but unit still can't see enemy)

4. Unit knows the exact position (knowsabout value is highest, unit can see enemy)

How i checked that ? Simple.

I've put into the editor a group of 2 RUS units (maxed skill) and gave them a SENTRY waypoint in place.

Then i added a US rifleman behind some buildings, out of line of sight. Distance was about 60-70m.

I've set that man to captive just to be sure it could not fire on RUS units.

I've set a trigger that made the US unit fire 3 times, with 5 seconds intervals.

What happened? Nothing after the first shot.

After the second shot both RUS units went prone and then RUS leader ordered his squadmate to "ENGAGE" the US rifleman.

For sake of precision exactly these messages were shown at once:

1. CONTACT

1. 2. ENGAGE THAT RIFLEMAN

2. ENGAGING

By the last shot the RUS unit was already running and actively looking for the US rifleman. Then, guess what ? The russian unit was NOT able to find the US rifleman and kept wandering randomly back and forth for like 2 minutes before i stopped the mission.

Edited June 6, 2009 by fabrizioT

[dmarkwick 261]

Nice one favrizioT :) I can't wait to get a hold of this, that's the sort of test I put 'em through as well :)

Hours of fun :)

[mr.g-c 6]

1. Facts are that AI Cheats very much in Arma2, at least their detection mechanism, even though no direct line-of-sight was ever made they still detect others (and player can do it too!).

It also goes through buildings/bushes/whatever and especially worse after you fired at shot at them - even on 700m distance with a damn ghillie-suit and a sniper-rifle crouching below a bush, they instantly know where you are!

You can argue as much about it as you like - its a fact!

2. AI is not as ridiculously accurate as in Arma1. However keep in Mind that modern 5,xxmm Rifles are pretty accurate and a skilled shooter (= Soldier) should be able to hit you even beyond 200-300m.

I say its pretty well optimized in A2 and together with the suppressive fire, it turns out to be great!

And i player only with AI set to 1.0 skill (max.) so i think i know what i'm talking about.

The issue portrait in this topics very first post is thus non-existent (it was in Arma1 though!)

[Cellus 10]

I don't have a problem with AI accuracy or that they can see through grass (I've just turned it off). Their being able to see in the dark is a real immersion breaker though.

The AI also makes assumptions about your movement. If it sees you run behind a house it will assume you continue running for a short time. Turn your HUD elements on and you can see it when your squad mates call out the enemy. It doesn't track, though - it will often continue the assumed path even when the enemy just goes behind cover then stops. As has been said, if you run into a house, the AI will clear that house. If it sees you and you are standing still without cover you will die. The AI has terrain detail set very low and view distance very high, its aim and movement tweaked and comfortable in the engine (I'm very much still getting use to the handling of my character model and the weapons and adjusting my mouse). One of them will watch constantly where it expects you to pop up or crawl out while others move to flank you. And unless you've got an airgun it can see you shooting, too. It thinks, and people are not use to it.

It is quite good, though I wish I could set a random accuracy, to simulate some people being a good shot, others average, others terrible. They all seem to be the same good shots.