A.C.E. Advanced Combat Environment Mod 2

[Alienfreak 0]

So I can make my Infantryman not being obese and cardiac insuffent?

[jhoson14 10]

Obese?

Going a little off topic...

But i would love to see you wearing a Interceptor Body armor,PASGT...full American Gear.

Get a M16A4 with at least 8 Mags, a Javelin and run in full sprint for more than 1Km without geting tired.

Its about 32,2 KG of Weapons + 12 Kg of Gear (using Interceptor with full plates).

Yeah, you would be carring about 43,7 Kg in total.

[usarmy19dsniper 0]

You couldn't even make it 500 meters with all that stuff, and it was always disappointing to me that SF soldiers and Regular infantry had the same stamina values or atleast it seemed that way.

I know from first hand experience, that we work out much more and harder than regular infantry.

[seba1976 98]

I couldn't make it 300 with my full jogging wear :), for that matter. What's been discussed everywhere was if ACE1 stamina system was an accurate representation of a trained soldier's capabilities. Some people think it was, some others think it wasn't. I know clans that stopped using ACE1 for two reasons: a) The wounding system, and b) The stamina system.

For me it was never a problem the stamina system and I enjoyed it for the most part. The wounding solution was another story ;).

Edited October 8, 2009 by seba1976
Typo.

[fincuan 0]

One thing you must remember when talking about the stamina system is that the movement speeds are faster in Arma and Arma2 than in real life. I'll see if I can find the posts where someone clocked them, but basically the "jog", which you could do indefinitely in ACE unless carrying a ridiculous amount of gear, compares to a very fast running pace in real life. Same with walking at high-ready, the speed is very fast in Armas.

[Alienfreak 0]

But i would love to see you wearing a Interceptor Body armor,PASGT...full American Gear.

Get a M16A4 with at least 8 Mags, a Javelin and run in full sprint for more than 1Km without geting tired.

Its about 32,2 KG of Weapons + 12 Kg of Gear (using Interceptor with full plates).

Yeah, you would be carring about 43,7 Kg in total.

I never took a Javelin with me.

And even saying that I'm wearing a full Interceptor I have a weapon weighting 7.5 lbs and 8 Mags with ~1.5 lbs each. That makes about 10kg.

So I am carrying 22 kg. Even I, who doesn't train often, can run quite a while with that. And consider that the whole map is only 12x12km. So you can go jogging with that at least once over the map without getting a heart attack.

Nobody ever talked about SPRINTING. Which you guys ALWAYS come up with when it comes to ACE. Its ok that if I sprint I become exhausted big time and probably even will face blackouts after some time. But when moving without WALKING (so when not pressing shift or whatever you put it to) you face blackouts at ridiculous distances.

Thats just plain stupid. It always annoyed the hell out of me. So I just took with me whatever I could. If you carry around 50kg or 10kg or weapons just doesn't matter in ACE. You will have to walk anyway.

And the most annoying part was after laying down the sway was only as hard as it was supposed to be in vanilla arma. The ACE sway wasnt visible. So when the aim had stabilized for you visually and you shot the bullet just went stray, sometimes even out of your scope vision because you were still "exhausted" and just gloriously gave away your position.

For me it was never a problem the stamina system and I enjoyed it for the most part. The wounding solution was another story .

A would enjoy a PLAYABLE stamina system a lot.

And I didn't even mention the zombie armies and the stupid usage of medicine in the wounding system (plus the damage values) :D

Ever shot a US guy in the Face with your 5.45mm on 30 meters and got him run off?

But yes. Those 2 were the killer of ACE for me. And I like realism games. But it often was on the edge of unplayability.

Edited October 7, 2009 by Alienfreak

[Syonco 10]

WTB More vids showcasing ACE2's features in ArmA2 :D

[Evil_Echo 11]

Two things about ACE and stamina.

1. Most people forgot that in addition to your regular weapons/ammo plus ruck contents, the ACE1 stamina system also included the stock weight of your body armor, boots, helmet, etc. Which IIRC was about another 20kg. So that "whimpy" 25kg of gear was actually 45kg. Not so easy to sprint far with that. In the news recently there was story about the forces in Afghanistan having to carry similar loads - nice pic of them struggling to catch their breath and being soaked in sweat from just walking.

2. Double-check the teasers so far. No mention that ACE2 stamina system is exactly the same as ACE1. We took a hard look at what was good and what needed reworking. :)

[tcp 10]

If you are already fatigued, can you still use sprint for a burst of speed (however short)?

I think that if you try to sprint for longer than 3 seconds after being fatigued, you should trigger an adrenaline mode that makes you faster for 5 minutes than put you in an adrenaline dump for the next 10 minutes where you can't aim as well and can only recover from my staying prone or walking. I know the times aren't realistic, but neither is the amount and frequency of action.

[seba1976 98]

2. Double-check the teasers so far. No mention that ACE2 stamina system is exactly the same as ACE1. We took a hard look at what was good and what needed reworking. :)

Perfectly clear on this end. We were talking about ACE1 implementation. The ACE team have already expressed that the ACE1 features will be revised and changed if needed, and that's among the things that have raised new interest in ACE for people who have previously disliked some show-stoppers features.

[Alienfreak 0]

2. Double-check the teasers so far. No mention that ACE2 stamina system is exactly the same as ACE1. We took a hard look at what was good and what needed reworking.

I know that it was mentioned nowhere.

I just wanted to point out my opinion, that it needs reworking, so it catches their eye.

1. Most people forgot that in addition to your regular weapons/ammo plus ruck contents, the ACE1 stamina system also included the stock weight of your body armor, boots, helmet, etc. Which IIRC was about another 20kg. So that "whimpy" 25kg of gear was actually 45kg. Not so easy to sprint far with that. In the news recently there was story about the forces in Afghanistan having to carry similar loads - nice pic of them struggling to catch their breath and being soaked in sweat from just walking.

If you wear the full Interceptor with even groin and neck protectors plus helmet and stuff you will have another 20kgs.

But most units don't wear the groin and neck protectors, as far as I have heard. Some more mobile SFs in A-stan even wear only the front and rear plate in it? Leaving out the side protectors and stuff, too...

Plus I was still speaking about only taking a rifle and a few mags. But nobody did that. Because it made no difference. You had to walk anyway...

Also I think in some parts of A-stan most people would be sweating even in their Tshirts without moving ;).

[Evil_Echo 11]

Also I think in some parts of A-stan most people would be sweating even in their Tshirts without moving ;).

Story of troops hauling equipment in A-stan.

If you wear the full Interceptor with even groin and neck protectors plus helmet and stuff you will have another 20kgs.

But most units don't wear the groin and neck protectors, as far as I have heard. Some more mobile SFs in A-stan even wear only the front and rear plate in it? Leaving out the side protectors and stuff, too...

Plus I was still speaking about only taking a rifle and a few mags. But nobody did that. Because it made no difference. You had to walk anyway...

Ah. So what you are really complaining about was that ACE included the stock body armor from ArmA and you'd like to go into battle without any. That'll be interesting.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Evil_Echo
Adde image.

[Alienfreak 0]

ArmA 1 had groin and arm protectors as standard armor?

Compare.

Story of troops hauling equipment in A-stan.

Comparing Apples to Oranges.

Those guys walk for 3 days... and have a lot of clothes, water, food, heavy machine guns, ammo, mortars, morat grenades and stuff on them.

In ArmA we are playing on a 12x12km big pice of world You can veeeery easily cross it on foot in less than a day. You usually even get dropped near the enemy by either vehicles or choppers and then fight. Get shot.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Alienfreak

[seba1976 98]

:D LOL, best picture of the year.

[kklownboy 43]

I know that it was mentioned nowhere.

I just wanted to point out my opinion, that it needs reworking, so it catches their eye.

....

i thought is was fine. Sure kept the rambos from running around, the only issue with it was the bitching and moaning about it from the players who couldnt be superman anymore...

[twisted 128]

i thought is was fine. Sure kept the rambos from running around, the only issue with it was the bitching and moaning about it from the players who couldnt be superman anymore...

+1

took a bit of figuring out to understand but then wasn't an issue at all. just the fella's that kept wanting to sprint everywhere got stuffed. most everyone else on the servers managed to play a nice tight fast paced game even with the stamina/weight. this was on tacticalgamer server where the guys sure know their shit and play a damn good strategic game.

[Alex72 1]

Agreed. Initially like most others i also blacked out a lot and wondered if it was such a good idea. And then i learned to adapt and could carry a lot without ever getting tired.

And this is what i love about this game - that sometimes you actually have to learn how to play it instead of just jumping in and kick asses without a single thaught of why or how.

[sparks50 0]

It also encouraged detailed planning of the loadout, since every extra Kilo slowed you down, as well as usage of motorized transport, which is a good thing because kept teams together in order to organize transport.

[Alienfreak 0]

It also encouraged detailed planning of the loadout, since every extra Kilo slowed you down, as well as usage of motorized transport, which is a good thing because kept teams together in order to organize transport.

You just took 50kgs with you. You had to walk anyway. Great feature.

Agreed. Initially like most others i also blacked out a lot and wondered if it was such a good idea. And then i learned to adapt and could carry a lot without ever getting tired.

You managed to disable the autorun? Congrats...

And this is what i love about this game - that sometimes you actually have to learn how to play it instead of just jumping in and kick asses without a single thaught of why or how.

Are you playing the same game as me?

[cole 0]

Agreed. Initially like most others i also blacked out a lot and wondered if it was such a good idea. And then i learned to adapt and could carry a lot without ever getting tired.

And this is what i love about this game - that sometimes you actually have to learn how to play it instead of just jumping in and kick asses without a single thaught of why or how.

I absolutely have to agree. I hated the weight system at first, but then I (although it took some time) fell in love with it.

[Thirdup 0]

Hated the ACE stamina system (only ACE feature that I kept disabled). I look forward to seeing the changes in the new one.

[scubaman3D 0]

Hated the ACE stamina system (only ACE feature that I kept disabled). I look forward to seeing the changes in the new one.

I'm curious about what you're expecting. We're keeping the same basic idea and unless we know what specifically about it is the subject of your hatred, we are unable to even consider the possibility (however small it may be) of changing it to suit your specific wishes.

[fincuan 0]

I loved the stamina system. The only bad thing was the total blackout at the end instead of gradual slowing down, but all in all they did a good job with what was possible within the limitations of the engine.

[Thirdup 0]

a) the duration of the exhausted state

b) the inability to effectively fire a weapon in the exhausted state

I could have actually lived with the system had I been able to at least defend myself while forced down.

Again, to each his own. The whole concept of "what makes a good reality mod" is really quite subjective.

---------- Post added at 03:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:06 PM ----------

I wish I could find the quote buried up thread somewhere.....somebody said something along the lines "if you don't know what ACE is, it's hard to explain".

To me ACE was four things:

1) a great collection of addons (sounds, fx, weapons, etc)

2) a distribution system that was near fool-proof (easy to get an entire clan in sync and patched up together with one click)

3) additional animations that were not found in the original game

4) a reality mod

Honestly, I could really care less about #4.

If had had but one request for ACE2 it would be that it were modular and allowed users to turn on the features they love and switch off the ones that they don't care for.....

[Alienfreak 0]

I'm curious about what you're expecting. We're keeping the same basic idea and unless we know what specifically about it is the subject of your hatred, we are unable to even consider the possibility (however small it may be) of changing it to suit your specific wishes.

Thats quite easy.

1. If it would be possible change the maximum sprint speed according to the load it would be cool. So you can actually are more agile in changing positions when you carry less. I would keep the jogging speed equal so you don't get seperated if you are moving in a team. Also it would be cool if you would get slower the more exhausted you are...

2. Make an exhaustion system that doesn't cripple you.

Its ok that when you sprint you get exhausted big time by just trying to sprint 50 meters when carrying 50 kgs. And if you try to sprint more than 100 you will face blackouts etc pp.

But when just jogging you should be able to go for a while. Its ok if you get exhausted more the more you carry. But even with a load of 50kgs you should be able to go like a 2-3 kms without blackouts. At least. Ofc you would be exhausted big time then.

4. Make the effects of exhaustion VISIBLE. So when your aim is supposed to be unsteady the aim of your soldier has to sway. Its absolutely a gamebreaker if I see a steady aim and the noise of my breathing is so quiet that I can't hear it against the background of the battle and my aim isn't steady.

People (which often are fanboys) tend to try to make you seem you don't like the system at all because you want to be SUPERMAN OLOLOL!. Thats just bollocks. People like stamina systems. They just dislike them if they are more real than in reality. When people come up and try to explain why you are so exhausted by refering to an article where one of the mortar crew is marching for 3 days in the desert while it has almost 40 degrees C. Nobody in ArmA ever does such things as walking 3 days. The Island is just so small.

It should be crippling if you want to run around with a Javelin or a SMAW with 3 Rockets. But thats ok. If you want to have the punch you will have to take that you are crippled big time. Thats good balancing. Its even annoying for all other players who dislike playing godmode Javelinstyle but rely on AT4s and stuff when another player just runs past them with his Javelin, gets it out and pwns the T90 2 kms away. Runs back to the crate, gets a new missile and runs back while you are still trying to advance. This has to be fixed via a stamina system.

Also what I would like to see:

1. Shuffle Magazines: when you have nothing to do, move on etc pp you often have half full mags. Please make it possible to make 1 full out of 2 half mags. It should take some time, so you can't do it in combat. But between or while hiding in the mountains it should be possible.

2. A bit more dynamic System to check how many bullets are left. The Idea of not knowing how many bullets you have left rocks. But having to make a special move to know whether it was FULL, HALF FULL, ALMOST EMPTY is just too little. Those you even have in your feeling when handling a weapon. It should be able to tell you in 4th at least when checking.

3. No more zombies. PLEASE!

4. Make it that some weapons have to be assembled first. Javelin and stuff. That would balance those really inbalanced weapons out a lot. Plus its realistic.