Useful radio communication, more human. Examples:

[mr.g-c 6]

Great this Topic is existing! This has clearly gotten worse in Arma2 compared to Arma1.

This is one of the 3 Major parts criticized by the German Press (and they are 100% right with it) which will earn you bad ratings.

Ridiculous examples:

1. You standing in a Wood and your commander calls "2 goto that tree".

ROFL this is really ridiculous - even on easy mode you don't even get that tree marked (but yet still Animals get markers - ROFL). :eek:

2. "2, Attack that Officer"

Ahhm which Officer? How can i recoginze a distance Person as Officer without binoculars/Scope?

Realistic would be like "2, Engage that approaching Man from North-West".

So you know instantly that he means a person approaching from a bit left of your view.

3. "Enemy Man, left flank far".... or "Close to 2 near 1, enemy man"

Lol..... no words about it. Absolutely impossible to detect.

Even Worse when the guy is behind a House and the AI cheated again but you can never see this guy.

Even worse:

But the icing on the cake of this is, that you still make sentences out of cutted words/parts...

This is so extremely ugly sounding, sometimes one guy having 2 different speakers, etc.

Clearly this is a no-go for 2009, indicates low aspiration to quality and we were all hoping for a clear improvement here, as you were predicting a improvement in this area.

The Press did criticized you for this in every German press Article and im sorry but they are right about it. :(

Even when it takes a couple of GBs, Jesus please make it correct and make whole sentences for the Situations, besides the Informations of Distance and rough directions (when you implement the imho good suggested N,S,E,W,etc.)

.

So record Sentence like this "Enemy Man! Direction __ , distance __ !"

But then let the same speaker record on the same moment (for later usage) the words "North, West, South, East, Northwest, bla bla" and the distances "100meters, 200meters, 300meters, etc."...

At the End you have nice sentences like

"Enemy Man! Direction North-West, Distance 200"

This would result in far better audibility/situational awareness!

Edited June 2, 2009 by mr.g-c

[Shadow NX 1]

I couldnt care less about the bit robotic sounds as it doesnt bother me much when playing but apart from that hes right and the samples are fitting.

Bring back the OFP method and the lil compass and all is fine, compass could be for cadet mode only.

[Thunderbird 0]

Nothing more to add to mr.g-c post as it covers the most important aspects of the way a decent 'radio communication' should be established.

And it would be indeed, a great evolution if BIS introduce 1 sample per situation instead of many puzzled words which actually sounds, just horrible.

Regards,

TB

[walker 0]

Hi all

My suggestion:

Contact Reports should then be given based on a reference.

LINE OF MARCH first reference

Groups, line of march in degrees should always be given by team leader every time there is a major direction change. There should be an option for group commanders to give it to subordinates, AI or human. That is your first and primary reference. Ideally all waypoints and lines of march are given both at the briefing before the mission and repeated in small briefings at waypoints, rally points, LZs etc.

1) Less than 150 m Range:

You should use 90 Degree arcs from line of march:

Contact Left, Contact, Right, Contact Front, Contact Rear.

Add Close, for less than 50 m

Add Near for 50 m to 100 m

2) 150 m to 300 m Range

Clock position from line of march and range to contact.

3) 300 m to 500 m Range, plus all air contacts

Compass bearing, plus range.

4) 500m plus

Designated Reference object:

The ability to reference geographical objects, such as Forrest, building by general type eg church farmhouse, office block etc, town, village, lone tree and hill top, designated point by colour eg point red, point green etc and person eg player or external group member or even target.

Ability to do this in first/third/command mode with a right click menu, then match option to above type to map object. And the ability to use the map to do same both in briefing and in mission. Reference objects need, names.

Ability for the AI and players to say "Seen!" when can see the object in first/third/command view otherwise they refer to map and say acknowledged/understood/got that.

Then use distance left, right, front, past for close. Clock for 150 m to 300 m, compass and map for greater distance.

Kind Regards walker

Edited June 2, 2009 by walker

[Placebo 29]

And it would be indeed, a great evolution if BIS introduce 1 sample per situation instead of many puzzled words which actually sounds, just horrible.

Do you realise how many complete lines of dialogue that would require recording?

[Redkid Joker 0]

I think a merge of EricMs suggestion with bravo6s suggestion would work best.

When close, a call using left-right etc, but player centric. When far, calling out using compass and distance.

[mr.g-c 6]

Do you realise how many complete lines of dialogue that would require recording?

Doesn't matter, if you do something you do it right or you don't do it at all.

At least where i'm coming from this is the motto...;)

With todays audio compression, the few sentences per speaker more, are not that much actually.

And as i sowed, you don't need to have complete sentences for all possibilites - just so that you later bring-in the two informations about distance and direction.

[Nicholas 5]

I think it's kidna stupid when two US soldiers say hi to each other. It's in two totally different tones, like its a different person for each recording. I mean, at least make the "Hi..........There.." the same recording.

[lapa 1]

Alternatively, one way of attaining a natural flow is that you record basic lines in their entirety and then cut the individual words up and make different combinations. This way the words should have the appropriate word stress (due to the fact that they were originally spoken out in context and not in isolation).

The above might not be feasible, but it's a thought and the right solution might lie somewhere in that direction. What method was used the make the OFP reports? They flow muuuuch better than Arma and Arma2.

[mr.g-c 6]

Yes that sound very good too!

Action has to be taken by BIS here... please improve this with a Patch later on.

And please it would be nice if you could tell us your plan how it could be improved so we can discuss about it even more and share our thoughts.

Not that at the End you change it to something even worse, like it already is with the switch from Arma1 to Arma2 - same principle, you said we improving it without any examples or more details and the results nobody likes..... :p :D

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2klEgqI5rk

There at 0:53, you can hear a example for two independent speakers in one sentence... this really has to disappear!

Edited June 2, 2009 by mr.g-c

[lapa 1]

The unfortunate thing is that BIS already has spent money on voice acting (in multiple languages) so they might not be motivated to re-record and re-fund all their voice work.

What I don't understand is why they took "the easy way out" in the first place when they did the report system for Arma2. Why spend money repeating the mistakes of Arma? I don't know a single person that thinks Arma's reporting system is succesfull.

[sandzibar 0]

big big kudos to BIS for even considering a radio protocol change.

would be nice if we could get some authentic advice from people with experience of how this is done/called in reality. sadly the only opinion i can give is based on what ive read, and what ive seen in films etc.

So for example (as portrayed in first 5mins of the Generation Kill TV series)

"4 T55's at 1'clock. 2clicks" - voice

"Alpha this is Bravo. Enemy Contact. 4 T55s. 1'oclock. 2clicks. how copy" - radio call in

"contact right. RPG team. 2 oclock. 500m behind a truck" - voice

"contact right. enemy foot mobiles. 4 oclock 300m. west berm" - voice

No idea how accurate this is.. but it does seem to give all the right info. in the right order.

my main problem with current reporting is that:

1) each AI seems to report each individual contact - leading to spam

2) the descriptions are too accurate.. ie Officer, Machinegunner.

wouldnt it be better to have:

"multiple enemy infantry. 2 oclock. 400m"

rather than the spam of:

"enemy. soldier. at. 2oclock"

"enemy. officer. at. 2oclock"

"enemy. machinegunner. at. 2oclock"

"enemy. RPG. at. 2oclock"

"enemy. soldier. at. 2oclock"

etc etc

and ditch the "at." :)

Hopefully simplifying it wouldnt require too much rerecording.. just a bit of reworking.

Edited June 2, 2009 by sandzibar

[4 IN 1 0]

IMO the problem of robotic communication is because of the voice acting , when you are trying to make up a complete lines by using single words, you have to make sure the every word the speaker say is on the same tone without getting too much difference in speed, tone and as emotionless as possible, or you will end up being broken and robotic.

[bravo 6 0]

realistic radio communications video:

Sorry if something is wrong, i don't have "ears" at the moment.

[twisted 128]

errr. I like the imprecision of the new directions. how the hell does a normal soldier know a guy is 500m away. far aways is good enough.

left, right and front are easy to understand as well.

what would be more human to understand is adding a reference - like guy in front by that house, or on left far away by those bushes

[DaveP 66]

The main issue I really have with the voice system now is that some of the phrases are pronounced without any breathing space/pause and sound sped up, sort of like they're racing to try and get the words out fast enough

[4 IN 1 0]

is this even possible for a game? i dont really think so

[twisted 128]

Man that compass in arma was a pain in the ass. a good reference is how when people play online using teamspeak.

[4 IN 1 0]

how the hell does a normal soldier know a guy is 500m away.

its not hard to tell an object is 500 meters away, all you need to know the general scale of something as a reference.

[sparks50 0]

For reference, Dragon Rising seems to be using: Rifleman - 100 meters - northeast.

I think this sounds more natural and useful. Though in distance less than 150 meters, it would perhaps be better to say left/right front.

[cross 1]

When calling targets, its better to say what you know while you are assessing the situation....especially when threat is close...

Contact...NE....enemy infantry(man)...100 mtrs

is better than

Contact..........................................enemy infantry NE 100 mtrs.

so that people can shift focus to the reported direction.

[sabre4809 0]

My opinion:

Close contacts(<200) when YOU are infantry:

Use the system BIS use now, Left, right, close etc. Relative to PLAYER

Beyond, still as infantry:

Use compass heading and dist in meters. Also the one where they say what town they're in is great. But a little addition should be that if another contact is found within say 50 meters of a contact already called, it should just be 'more infantry' or 'armour' and a special note for AT or anything like that. It will prevent that annoying spam that actually loses all usefull ness after too many are called. I also love the combined ones.

As armour, ONLY compass headings or bearings and the same, proximity bit.

As air, bearings and height. UNLESS the aircraft reporting aircraft is far off then report in relation to towns on the ground and height.

As for the recording quality. I say take the voice actors, put them on the game and make them say/shout out each command that comes up while playing. Put lots of scenarios. I think you'll get a much better pool of voice clips to choose from. :p

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Although may be a little too magical for some, how about this:

If you are within a minimum distance of your team leader and have line of sight, a small pointer shows up simulating the team leader actually pointing? Probably too costly though...

However, people wants to play as hardcore as the engine will let them, then complaining about lack of aids? I don't get it. The target hud indicator is not an accurate position but a good guess, and I'll use it to simulate the lack of proper communications between myself and the team leader. Personally I have nothing against using this 'cheat'.

For waypoints (go to orders), doesn't the compass mark this with a red line anymore?

Multiplayer is a whole different ballgame. There I don't want much help from the system such as magic hud etc. But servers force this on even for players that want a more difficult game. I don't care if a newbie to the game wants to use help in a coop game, but at least let myself be able to override the server settings downward (but not upward).

Naturally I'd want 'proper communications' like everyone else, even for singleplayer and campaign. But seing how this is almost impossible to implement, I'll rather turn on parts of the hud and not be fully hardcore. I think the german reviewer who completely slaughtered Arma2 should rethink his standpoint on playing 'too hardcore'.

[Serclaes 0]

Some good suggestions here. I like the reference idea "500m behind a truck". A characterisation could help there "white house" "yellow house" "brown barn" in combination with "left" "right", "in front of" "in"

What could help a lot is more use of the direct speech feature. It helps a lot to determine who talked and where he's looking at to spot the enemy.

Also, in a critical situation, you might drop the distance or even the type. Like say when you get MG fire from behind. It might be enough to shout "behind us!" because everybody will be looking for that machine gun firing anyhow. You might also drop words like "in" "of" "us" and just say "front!".

But in vehicles i would like to have an azimuth or an hour number.

Also as human in an AI group, you always have the problem that you don't know what the hell is going on. Which direction is the group heading? How do we get there (bounding overwatch or one covering the other going)? The group members seem to be the leaders which is a bit weird. They decide by themselves when they are covering and when they are running which feels totally random and hence unreliable. Instead i'd wish the group leader to say "2-5 cover" and "6-9 move to blah" but i digress.

Last but not least you might consider to drop the "unkown" and replace it with "something" and generally increase the accuracy of the descriptions: "MAN" could be a civilian or a soldier.

[bravo 6 0]

EDIT: Deleted post.

Theres a better version here

Edited June 30, 2009 by bravo 6