Air craft counter measures?

[jump artist 0]

I have been searching and searching for the thing that will enable aircraft counter measures. is there any script I need to add along with th eprovided game logics?? any help would be aprreciated.

[dxfan01 10]

i was wondering the same thing...any help would be appreciated

[jump artist 0]

Im just wondering if anyone has actually figured out if the aircraft have counter measures or not. I read a review that had a bullet statement that they did, but I cannot find that review and cannot figure out any way to get stocl Arma2 to produce countermeasures for aircraft. Spooner can you take a look at this possibly?

[ziiip 1]

No countermeasures? :( That is a big blow to CTI and Warfare missions...why buy an attack chopper when you can bring it down with a cheap AA soldier.

[avibird 1 155]

No countermeasures? :( That is a big blow to CTI and Warfare missions...why buy an attack chopper when you can bring it down with a cheap AA soldier.

Because you can still use it if you know how to use it smart. Here is a little outline to follow.

1. Don't fly into a hot zone like you own the place.

2. Use your gunner, human or AI to target AA soldier first.

3. Keep moving in a zig zag pattern and use rooftops and tree lines as cover.

4. When in doubt use lots of rockets in the most likely areas.

5. Don't be a superstar and let your ground units help secure the locations.

This was a outline from a guy who was one of the best aviators (pilot) that I played with in OFP his name was JAKE34 and i have been playing OFP since 2001.

[Oneil 0]

Because you can still use it if you know how to use it smart. Here is a little outline to follow.

1. Don't fly into a hot zone like you own the place.

2. Use your gunner, human or AI to target AA soldier first.

3. Keep moving in a zig zag pattern and use rooftops and tree lines as cover.

4. When in doubt use lots of rockets in the most likely areas.

5. Don't be a superstar and let your ground units help secure the locations.

This was a outline from a guy who was one of the best aviators (pilot) that I played with in OFP his name was JAKE34 and i have been playing OFP since 2001.

Now if just more people started to use these sort of guidelines instead of crashing the only air support available in the first 5 minutes of the game.

However, I would still like to see counter measures.

[ziiip 1]

Thanks for the guides Avi, but making fancy tricks doesnt justify the lack of countermeasures. I always have to stick to the ground to use terrain as cover, but even then, AA can be anywhere. Besides, isnt flying about looking at the marvelous landscape at 200 meters? :P Sure not in combat, but when I'm just goign to point A to B.

You fly in the open = death

Conclusion: add countermeasures!!

[Maddmatt 1]

You think adding countermeasures is suddenly going to make you invincible?

AA soldiers are a major threat to choppers. Countermeasures help, but they aren't going to suddenly make you safe.

The missiles do miss if they come at you from the side and you're moving relatively fast. They are only very effective from the front and back. They are not as overpowered as in ArmA 1.

Good flying is always going to be the best way to avoid getting shot down, countermeasures or not.

Sure I'd love to see them in the game, the lack of them doesn't ruin the game IMO.

[An-225 0]

I think people here are missing the point of a MANPAD. MANPADs are extremely dangerous to low flying aircraft. They are generally passive, using IR seeking missiles. You get no warning about a MANPAD that is targeting you on an RWR.

MANPADs may be concealed very easily, whether in a forest with a limited firing aperture and a lot of concealment, or out in the opening with a large firing aperture but limited concealment.

Flares are meant to be used proactively in the CAS role. You strafe the target with rockets, pop flares and roll out of the area.

Avibird, I think your guide lacks substance of how to fly in the CAS role and avoid missiles. Without countermeasures, any guide is a complete failure in avoiding MANPADs, even if you can only use flares proactively.

First of all, it is stupid to even think that a pilot can maneuver a helicopter to avoid a missile speeding towards them at Mach 2.2 without flares.

You must use terrain masking often, however note that terrain masking does not denote flying at two feet above the ground, it stipulates that you must use hills and other tall objects as cover. Since we are dealing with Chernarus, you will often be using hills as cover.

Don't try flying beneath the treeline next to a forest, as flying above the trees will accomplish the same job, and it will be a lot safer.

Know where to expect AA soldiers. This does not mean firing on them preemptively, it simply means to know where AA soldiers will tend to hide to try and gain an advantage over you. You would generally find them hiding in heavily wooded areas, trying to gain the advantage of surprise over you.

Remember that going in slowly and searching for MANPADs is futile, and will only invite a Strela/Igla/Stinger to hit you.

This just covers MANPADs. However, in instances where you are dealing with AA vehicles such as the Tunguska, they do show up on your radar. Use the radar to spot them at range, and hang back just outside of their effective range. Easy.

If you are fired on, without flares, you are screwed.

(Note, my conclusion comes from experience based off ArmA, where it is near impossible to lose a missile)

Edited June 15, 2009 by An-225

[cm 0]

I'm pretty sure they said somewhere that they didn't want to add counter measures because air vehicles already had a huge advantage over ground troops.

I still reckon they should be in though.

[-Paladin- 10]

only when they add G-force for airvehicel structure and palyer. If not, no cm.

if you play inf = like a sim

If you play air = arcade

imo

[MQ-9 Reaper 10]

Good post AVIBIRD 1.

Hit and run tactics work great too.

I don't like too much the idea of (automatic?) countermeasures in ArmA II because, like cm said, aircrafts and helicopters have a big advantage over ground troops. The airmen should be wary of the poor guys on the ground. :p

On the subject, I will just say that, in real life, the big majority of aircrafts and helicopters shot down by manpads never knew what hit them, so having flares is not enough. This is why nowadays modern armies equip their aircrafts with missile launch detectors. But even with MLDs and flares, it remains to be proven that the latest and most advanced manpads can be decoyed.

Helicopters are the most vulnerable as they are low and slow (=easy targets for SAMs and manpads) so they must use terrain as cover and stay undetected until the last moment to improve their survivability.

[An-225 0]

No one brought up automatic countermeasures, but as I stated in my earlier post, MANPADs usually do not show up on an RWR. It would be impossible to dispense flares automatically. The pilot must do it proactively too, he gets no prior warning.

[MQ-9 Reaper 10]

No one brought up automatic countermeasures,

(this part concerns ArmA II) I thought it was implied. I remember a helicopter mod for OFP, the helicopter would deploy flares automatically when a manpad was launched.

The action menu of the OFP/Arma family does not facilitate the manual employment of flares either.

but as I stated in my earlier post, MANPADs usually do not show up on an RWR.

(this part concerns real life)Manpads never show up on an RWR because they are IR (passive) missiles. RWR means radar warning receiver, it only displays radar related threats.

It would be impossible to dispense flares automatically.

(this part concerns real life too)It is possible. More and more military aircrafts & helicopters, VIP planes are equipped with automated defensive systems.

Edited June 14, 2009 by MQ-9 Reaper
edited for clarity

[Hell_Toupee 0]

On the subject, I will just say that, in real life, the big majority of aircrafts and helicopters shot down by manpads never knew what hit them, so having flares is not enough. This is why nowadays modern armies equip their aircrafts with missile launch detectors. But even with MLDs and flares, it remains to be proven that the latest and most advanced manpads can be decoyed.

.

Well they cannot really be spoofed anymore, since they no longer just home in on the strongest heat source they use the IR image of the target, flares are used to make it hard to get a lock on the aircraft, manpad operator cannot tell if hes locked on a flare or aircraft, flares must be proactively used tho.

[An-225 0]

I already stated on the previous page that they are passive. Therefore, it is impossible to have automatic flare dispersal, because they will never show up on the RWR.

[An Fiach 10]

I already stated on the previous page that they are passive. Therefore, it is impossible to have automatic flare dispersal, because they will never show up on the RWR.

You also stated that the previously posted guidelines lacked substance due to the absence of counter measures which is absurd. Those are good solid guidelines for any virtual pilot to follow. Nothing guarantees that you will not be blown out of the sky but smart play limits exposure time and opportunities for the MANPAD units. Whether CM are actually implemented in the game or not is irrelevant to smart play.

[Daniel 0]

You also stated that the previously posted guidelines lacked substance due to the absence of counter measures which is absurd. Those are good solid guidelines for any virtual pilot to follow. Nothing guarantees that you will not be blown out of the sky but smart play limits exposure time and opportunities for the MANPAD units. Whether CM are actually implemented in the game or not is irrelevant to smart play.

Absolutely. Fly nap-of-the-earth style, get ground troops to mark and prioritize MANPAD units before you move into the area, and watch for smoke trails. :p

[MQ-9 Reaper 10]

I already stated on the previous page that they are passive. Therefore, it is impossible to have automatic flare dispersal, because they will never show up on the RWR.

(My last OT post in this thread concerning countermeasures in ArmA II, sorry mods)

You are wrong, in real life, it is possible to have automatic flares deployment.

Various systems, which do not rely on RWRs (because RWRs are useless against manpads), exist.

Some of those systems use IR devices, others use very small radars to detect the incoming missile.

For example: Aircrafts like the Rafale (infos here and here, i quote "automatic decoy activation", "Two-colour IR missile detector") or helicopters like the Tiger are equipped with missile launch detectors. Those devices work in the IR band and they detect the heat from the missile's booster when it is launched. Then the defensive system deploys the flares like crazy.

@helltoupee, I agree with you and yes, the latest manpads are very deadly !

[NoRailgunner 0]

Military planes and helicopters are equipped with a electronic warfare suite - radar warning receiver, laser warner, infrared detectors, missile launch detector and chaff / flare dispenser. Usually they all on auto mode and the pilot is able to select + fire these flares and chaffs on manual mode too. ;)

BIS main focus is on land combat - with little air support.

Fly fast and low with your helicopter and dont try to mess with groups of Shilkas and Tunguskas. Be sure that you have plan B and C - real opponents dont fight by the book.

Countermeasures are nice but it should be implemented in a proper way.

[dm 9]

I already stated on the previous page that they are passive. Therefore, it is impossible to have automatic flare dispersal, because they will never show up on the RWR.

Wrong.

Countermeasures systems can work on one of many systems:

Laser detection, radar detection, heat detection and many other methods.

In the case of passive manpads, there are systems which detect the heat bloom of the approaching missile and deploy countermeasures/provide warnings to the crew.

[avibird 1 155]

WOW some of you guys need a life! Yes in real life we do have Countermeasures. Do they work all the time no. Do they help to save lifes yes.

This is a video game and the focus is on the bigger picture of combat not just aircombat but all combat.

My dad had a good saying and I have stated this before on this forum. YOU CAN'T PUT 10 LBS OF CRAP INTO A 5LB BAG AND RIGHT NOW BOHEMIA ONLY HAS ROOM FOR ABOUT 1/2 LB OF CRAP TO GET THIS GAME TO WORK GREAT.

Yes it would be nice to have them in the game but would it make the game unbalanced. Like in RTS games the ROCK-PAPER thing needs to be inplace to make the game balanced/fair and fun to play as every unit.

If you just follow this simple outline you will be fine!

1. Don't fly into a hot zone like you own the place.

2. Use your gunner, human or AI to target AA soldier first.

3. Keep moving in a zig zag pattern and use rooftops and tree lines as cover.

4. When in doubt use lots of rockets in the most likely areas.

5. Don't be a superstar and let your ground units help secure the locations.

The problem is most people want to be a superstar and not part of a team when they have control of the BIG BAD BIRD.

Edited June 14, 2009 by AVIBIRD 1

[Hell_Toupee 0]

Theres systems that can detect incoming missiles, however they are rare for helicopters usually only have limited coverage, the newer IR systems are still in development.

[benjellio 10]

In the real world people get scared, when they see massive apache helis destroying stuff they get really scared most people would get their heads down but in Arma ai dont get scared so they go crazily runing around in the open to drop an apache with aa, so i think that cm would be a good idea but would probably just be for show,

but if your in a plane its different, you have a laser splash on the target and you go as fast as you can and a computer drops the bomb then you run away in arma this would be unfair so i think that aircraft should get cm but people should learn to fly arma style,

ARMA IS NOT REAL LIFE SO MANY REAL LIFE THINGS DON'T APPLY

so people should just learn how to play the game not how to do it in real life.

[11aTony 0]

Yeah sure. But take a look at this. I was playing 1 on 1 warfare meny times with a friend of mine and I killed tons of them AIs to get 8g for that cobra. I buy it, take off not move 100m when I get missile up my ass from couple of kms away. There he was up on the hill, more then 3km away in bushes. AI dont have range of that far but humman operating stinger can lock on you from as far as he wants. No nap-of-the earth flying helps you. You gonna tell me air has advantage over ground? Yes, against convoy full of trucks, tanks and unarmed soldiers. Sometimes, tank commander snipes your rotor or even you from far away with 50 cal. C'mon. When playing warfare with bunch of guys, helis are nothing for tank. You take abrams and you just keep hiting them kamovs and mi's with tank cannon before you turn red from white on their radar. Another thing is that you are never, ever gonna spot some missile soldier 500m away. If you do he already launched missile toward you and you go down for sure. It doesnt matter if its coming from your side, your back or front. Stinger alway hits you, even if you are in harrier going 700km/h and doing some crazy evasive tricks. Once we were kidding around and a friend of mine was locking me with stinger and I tried to evade locked missile with av8b. From about 10 shots I got hit 10 times. Not all 10 times status red but got hit. Flares should be there, not to evase everything and become invincible but to help you evase that one or two missiles. You pop'em and break away. Or they should include atleast missile warning if not flares. Something like in evolution. Its helpes sometimes.