Multiplayer in Arma 2 - Is Warping (Lag) and Cheats still an issue?

[garack666 10]

Hi,

I like A1 , but i play only in MP. In arma i cant play MP cause other player warping ( cause of big lag ).

http://forums.bistudio.com/search.php?searchid=41318

specially look at thread from dudester

And cheaters are alle over.

Game-monitor shows that not very much people play arma 1.

So is the warping issue gone in Arma 2 ?

Edit: i played Arma 2 and Yes it is still warping. Better play singleplayer.

Edited May 28, 2009 by garack666

[maddogx 13]

There hasn't been much info on multiplayer yet and until the game is actually out, we can't really say whether there will be a cheater problem.

[Landstalker 10]

cheaters worry me a little but will not stop me from having fun. im ex BF2 so never seen warping before unless i strapped c4 on someone and pulled the detonator, but bf2 got molested with hackers hence the reason i quit along time ago sadly. all good tho -

[walker 0]

Hi garack666

Cheating must be a bad problem in other games; since ArmA now has BattlEye and DOACS, cheating seems to have disapeared in ArmA. That plus ArmA is not an Ego Shooter so there is no benefit for being a score whore in ArmA. Mostly in ArmA it is about team play.

And the big clans use their public servers to train people in their clan ethos and to recruit from and use private locked or hidden servers for their clan matches.

I think the cheat worries are partialy why CM keep putting the release date back on DR.

Seems to be a plethora of these cheat threads guess a moddy should amalgamate them.

As to warping it tends to happen on badly set up and optimised servers or missions with stupidly long view distances. If your server suffers from it contact one of the good servers for info on optimising your setup. LAG spikes can also cause warping. By the way warping is caused by desynch which is caused by LAG not the other way round ;)

PS garack666 your link does not work.

Kind Regards walker

Edited May 22, 2009 by walker

[Landstalker 10]

thanks cool advice im hosting as soon as i get word back from a few sites ive mailed they said they have to run server loads etc , so when thats complete i should be up and running with a server and i hope to have it running pretty smooth going to take some tweaking but should be all sorted in no time [fingers crossed]

[garack666 10]

Hi garack666

Cheating must be a bad problem in other games; since ArmA now has BattlEye and DOACS, cheating seems to have disapeared in ArmA. That plus ArmA is not an Ego Shooter so there is no benefit for being a score whore in ArmA. Mostly in ArmA it is about team play.

And the big clans use their public servers to train people in their clan ethos and to recruit from and use private locked or hidden servers for their clan matches.

I think the cheat worries are partialy why CM keep putting the release date back on DR.

Seems to be a plethora of these cheat threads guess a moddy should amalgamate them.

As to warping it tends to happen on badly set up and optimised servers or missions with stupidly long view distances. If your server suffers from it contact one of the good servers for info on optimising your setup. LAG spikes can also cause warping. By the way warping is caused by desynch which is caused by LAG not the other way round ;)

PS garack666 your link does not work.

Kind Regards walker

type in warping in forum search and filter to topics

[pogoman979 10]

Hi garack666

Cheating must be a bad problem in other games; since ArmA now has BattlEye and DOACS, cheating seems to have disapeared in ArmA. That plus ArmA is not an Ego Shooter so there is no benefit for being a score whore in ArmA. Mostly in ArmA it is about team play.

And the big clans use their public servers to train people in their clan ethos and to recruit from and use private locked or hidden servers for their clan matches.

I think the cheat worries are partialy why CM keep putting the release date back on DR.

Seems to be a plethora of these cheat threads guess a moddy should amalgamate them.

As to warping it tends to happen on badly set up and optimised servers or missions with stupidly long view distances. If your server suffers from it contact one of the good servers for info on optimising your setup. LAG spikes can also cause warping. By the way warping is caused by desynch which is caused by LAG not the other way round ;)

PS garack666 your link does not work.

Kind Regards walker

sorry but i had to butt in here. warping has nothing to do with the servers set up it is an arma problem. it is not caused by desync or lag spikes, if you host your own dedicated server then join it from the same computer the ai still warp, even if the vd is 200m (and your ping is like 5 and theres no other players).

the first time i got arma i couldnt believe how noone else was complaining about the warping and i spent ages trying to fix the problem (even took my computer to different houses with diff internet connections), but in the end i realised it was just arma and grew to live with it like everyone else, but it is definately a real issue and if arma2 still has it then its multiplayer base will end up the same as arma1's (ie nonexistant)...

[kt187 10]

They let you mod the hell out of a game, thats all cheating is modding or glitching any one can rig the game to there advantage. They should make it like Americas army wher ethey have the Offical rorginal games and then the cheat/no anit cheat games.

[rowdied 44]

sorry but i had to butt in here. warping has nothing to do with the servers set up it is an arma problem. it is not caused by desync or lag spikes, if you host your own dedicated server then join it from the same computer the ai still warp, even if the vd is 200m (and your ping is like 5 and theres no other players).

the first time i got arma i couldnt believe how noone else was complaining about the warping and i spent ages trying to fix the problem (even took my computer to different houses with diff internet connections), but in the end i realised it was just arma and grew to live with it like everyone else, but it is definately a real issue and if arma2 still has it then its multiplayer base will end up the same as arma1's (ie nonexistant)...

Sorry, I have to butt in here and tell you, you are wrong and right to a certain extent.

Let me explain. I thought the same thing you did and messed around with the settings a million different ways to Sunday and still found it caused warping players. I didn't mind it so much but my friends despised it so much so that they regularly stopped asking to play ArmA and we played R6V1 and 2, GR1 and 2 and also L4D all without lag.

But after recently revisiting the issue and reading several posts regarding the problem here and on other well known sites, I decided to change the server I use. Going from and old AMD FX60 oc'd @ 2.85 with 2G ram and an old 7200rpm non defragged HD to a newer Quad core q6600 oc'd @ 3.2 and 2g's of good 8500 ram and a faster 7200 rpm 16mb cache clean HD, the change has been to say the least, remarkable.

Seriously, the really bad player warping is virtually gone (still present to a certain extent on Evo type missions with lots of units present). I've had my friends ask me if I've made the AI harder because they hunt and kill us much more efficiently than before. They really don't sit and spin on the spot as much as they did before and make better decisions, or seem to anyways.

The only changes I made were to the hardware and the settings mr.g-c suggested found here http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=72451

Oh, and even when I host a dedicated server and join it from the same machine it never lags as much as you say it does. You might need to check your settings and/or upgrade your hardware, sorry.

Even with more powerful hardware and hooked up in a LAN setting, this game is still not as smooth as OFP and seriously needs better optimization to avoid the warping players and vehicles. On this point I can agree with you that it is an ArmA problem and hopefully will be fixed with ArmA2.

[.kju 3239]

BattlEye and verifySignatures do the job so far.

If server don't use it, no way to stop cheaters/hackers.

Rule of doubt. As we haven't heard AI warping at distance to be fixed,

it is still most likely an issue for A2.

No need to discuss it. The issue is a fact.

There is warping of AI units at distance. Tweaking minErrorToSend can

reduce it, yet NOT eliminate it. Seems like some bad OFPE optimization.

For human controlled entities there is no warping other than from bad connection

or server below 3 FPS.

Edited May 22, 2009 by kju

[pogoman979 10]

yeah rowdied i wasnt talking about human players, they're fine. as kju says its the ai warping which is the issue.

[rowdied 44]

yeah rowdied i wasnt talking about human players, they're fine. as kju says its the ai warping which is the issue.

Actually, players at a distance warp also, but I did mean AI units.

No need to discuss it. The issue is a fact.

There is warping of AI units at distance. Tweaking minErrorToSend can

reduce it, yet NOT eliminate it. Seems like some bad OFPE optimization.

Very true, but I was responding to;

sorry but i had to butt in here. warping has nothing to do with the servers set up it is an arma problem. it is not caused by desync or lag spikes, if you host your own dedicated server then join it from the same computer the ai still warp, even if the vd is 200m (and your ping is like 5 and theres no other players).

only to say that it is not entirely true and that having a good system ( C2D or Quad core )and the right settings will help eleviate lots of the incredibly bad warping.

Hosting and then joining your own dedicated server, the warping is almost non existent. I've tried that out from an old dual core amd to a newer q9550 oc'd @ 3.4 and noticed hardware makes a huge difference. I'm just wanting to relate my experience, like pogoman979 did, with the frustrating warping units.

Lets hope we are the last people to discuss it and that BI eliminate it.:)

[tomcat_ 0]

Actually, players at a distance warp also, but I did mean AI units.

Very true, but I was responding to;

only to say that it is not entirely true and that having a good system ( C2D or Quad core )and the right settings will help eleviate lots of the incredibly bad warping.

Hosting and then joining your own dedicated server, the warping is almost non existent. I've tried that out from an old dual core amd to a newer q9550 oc'd @ 3.4 and noticed hardware makes a huge difference. I'm just wanting to relate my experience, like pogoman979 did, with the frustrating warping units.

Lets hope we are the last people to discuss it and that BI eliminate it.:)

many discussions around this issue already...and i feel quite strong about it...however just to add a couple of things from my experiments with the server:

1. when u host your own server you don't see warping for obvious reasons...but the other mp players do see..

2. the way to fix this is reducing the minerrortosend, but then the bandwidth requirements go sky hi...in evolution with minerrortosend 0.001 bandwidth sent out from server for only two human players on the server was close to 100-110KB or 800kb

back to the subject now...i do thing this is a major issue that puts people off and gives an impression that the game is not polished off or not contemporary...so i really hope it has been fixed in Arma2

[pogoman979 10]

only to say that it is not entirely true and that having a good system ( C2D or Quad core )and the right settings will help eleviate lots of the incredibly bad warping.

Hosting and then joining your own dedicated server, the warping is almost non existent. I've tried that out from an old dual core amd to a newer q9550 oc'd @ 3.4 and noticed hardware makes a huge difference. I'm just wanting to relate my experience, like pogoman979 did, with the frustrating warping units.

Lets hope we are the last people to discuss it and that BI eliminate it.

ah ok im with ya :)

[Landstalker 10]

certainly a very intresting thread.

[walker 0]

sorry but i had to butt in here. warping has nothing to do with the servers set up it is an ArmA problem. it is not caused by desync or lag spikes, if you host your own dedicated server then join it from the same computer the ai still warp, even if the vd is 200m (and your ping is like 5 and theres no other players).

the first time i got arma i couldnt believe how noone else was complaining about the warping and i spent ages trying to fix the problem (even took my computer to different houses with diff internet connections), but in the end i realised it was just arma and grew to live with it like everyone else, but it is definately a real issue and if arma2 still has it then its multiplayer base will end up the same as arma1's (ie nonexistant)...

Hi pogoman979

I will not go over what others have already posted to correct you misunderstanding of the problem.

From your post you are talking about a client based server rather than a dedicated server on computer based at a server host.

You make it clear you are hosting the server on the same computer as the client you are playing with. Follow what others have posted to correct your setup but all that will mean nothing if your computer is not up to the task.

You need to have fairly good computer to do this. Dual core would be the minimum with affinity for the client and server set to different cores and lots of memory.

If you are doing this for a home LAN a better solution is a separate computer as server.

If you are hosting others on the server over the Internet you need something more than a standard ISP broadband, most only allow 256 K or perhaps 512 K outbound. ISP's often throttle people running servers from home computers and it may even be against your ISP contract.

You may have been fooled into thinking that other games do not suffer warping, They do. To get around it they use a range of limits and tricks. First off they limit number of players, next they limit view distance, they remove ballistics. They then begin the tricks: if you are running the client/server you are not seeing the world that others are so you will think things are better when they are not, it allows you to think it is a bad clients LAG problem rather than your server, you are being fooled; they use interpolation to guess where the player will be rather than give the true position, they use line of sight for bullet path rather from end of the gun, they use laser gun rather than true ballistic path, they do not model sound placement or environment etc.

ArmA has more resistance to warping than any other game you will play. If you were to play ArmA at the view distances of other games, 200-300m your warping would disappear in ArmA on a properly set up server, but ArmA is played at a much larger scale.

If you crank ArmA up too far, say if you play on a properly set up dedicated server on mid range server at a mid range server host with view distances of 5000m plus on all clients and the server and 60 plus players on the Internet, with players on a range of differing capability clients from minimum to top end, on the bell curve, the clients will definitely see warping.

That is because you are pushing the server and the mission too hard, drop view distance to 1200 m and the warping will disappear. It is pointless having 5000 m view distance for most people playing, any way humans cannot resolve another person at greater than about 2km even top snipers with the best scopes.

Yes you can alter view distances for special role clients such as fixed wing pilots and snipers but be controlled about it. Do not just give max view distance to every one. Use it logically.

Kind regards walker

Edited May 22, 2009 by walker

[tomcat_ 0]

Hi pogoman979

I will not go over what others have already posted to correct you misunderstanding of the problem.

From your post you are talking about a client based server rather than a dedicated server on computer based at a server host.

You make it clear you are hosting the server on the same computer as the client you are playing with. Follow what others have posted to correct your setup but all that will mean nothing if your computer is not up to the task.

You need to have fairly good computer to do this. Dual core would be the minimum with affinity for the client and server set to different cores and lots of memory.

If you are doing this for a home LAN a better solution is a separate computer as server.

If you are hosting others on the server over the Internet you need something more than a standard ISP broadband, most only allow 256 K or perhaps 512 K outbound. ISP's often throttle people running servers from home computers and it may even be against your ISP contract.

You may have been fooled into thinking that other games do not suffer warping, They do. To get around it they use a range of limits and tricks. First off they limit number of players, next they limit view distance, they remove ballistics. They then begin the tricks: if you are running the client/server you are not seeing the world that others are so you will think things are better when they are not, it allows you to think it is a bad clients LAG problem rather than your server, you are being fooled; they use interpolation to guess where the player will be rather than give the true position, they use line of sight for bullet path rather from end of the gun, they use laser gun rather than true ballistic path, they do not model sound placement or environment etc.

ArmA has more resistance to warping than any other game you will play. If you were to play ArmA at the view distances of other games, 200-300m your warping would disappear in ArmA on a properly set up server, but ArmA is played at a much larger scale.

If you crank ArmA up too far, say if you play on a properly set up dedicated server on mid range server at a mid range server host with view distances of 5000m plus on all clients and the server and 60 plus players on the Internet, with players on a range of differing capability clients from minimum to top end, on the bell curve, the clients will definitely see warping.

That is because you are pushing the server and the mission too hard, drop view distance to 1200 m and the warping will disappear. It is pointless having 5000 m view distance for most people playing, any way humans cannot resolve another person at greater than about 2km even top snipers with the best scopes.

Yes you can alter view distances for special role clients such as fixed wing pilots and snipers but be controlled about it. Do not just give max view distance to every one. Use it logically.

Kind regards walker

I respect what you say....however...

anyone who buys Arma2 and installs it on a dedicated server (say dual 100mb, C2D@2.9ghz) and loads up a mission should not be looking at warping aircrafts and warping AI units....that is not doing any justice to the game...

having to read (the very few official guidelines about network settings) in order to set up a server properly, is not helping much....

let's wait and see in a few days....:)

[garack666 10]

yes servers with 2000 metres view distance have warping players/KI too.

[Trauma.au 10]

Agreed, warping is unacceptable, the netcode in Arma is it's No. 1 flaw imo. Trying to lase a moving tank from 3k+ is rather annoying when they are warping, I'm pretty much at a point where I don't engage moving targets, now thats saying something about the issue.

[LtCmdrBoon 0]

the problem is if there is some netlag then at some point warping must be done to bring the units into the correct position, unless they kinda drift into their correct position in an unnatural way i see the only way to combat it

it only takes a player with torrents, an overworked server, 7pm uk time etc and u got a problem

[garack666 10]

was not a server problem. me and all clan members had this warping seen on ervery server since arma 1.00.#

[sidhellfire 0]

I didn't experienced any warping on our community server :|

Indeed a bigger smoothing, or rather a smoothing between two smoothed already representations of player position would be a big bow to the players with poor connections, or weak servers.

[whisper 0]

There have been some corrected issues through patch, afaik, like the attempt to stop like spike on client connection on server, so we can guess such correction will be present in ArmA2.

That said, I'll never expect the same smooth netcode from ArmA series than from a CoD/BF server, for obvious reasons. Once again, ArmA's uniqueness (its scale) impacts the "normal" aspects of the game.

There's a saying where I live : "On ne peut pas avoir le beurre, l'argent du beurre, et la crémière" :p

("you can't buy butter, keep the money, and bring the seller's daughter with you", or something of that extent)

[PsychoPigeon 10]

My guess it will still be a laggy online game.

[garack666 10]

Perhaps some stats from the devs, bevore i buy this game and bring it back cause of warping players/ai in MP ...

No statement is a statement too :)