North America Release / Publisher

[Litos 10]

Well at least thats some news! That means that we might be closer to getting a publisher, and maybe then even a release date!

Great news, thanks.

[hoak 0]

Large Publishers are just not going to be very interested in ArmA simply because they believe it will compete with their existing 'cash cow franchise' titles -- EA has Battlefield, Ubisoft the burgeoning Clancy fantasy franchise, Activision's Call of Duty and so on.

Never mind that ArmA is a highly realistic near sim tactical shooter, and these existing franchises are arcade-hollywood-fantasy 'products' with as much shelf-life as a McDonalds Happy Meal Toy -- and they compete about as much as a Barbie game and Gears Of War; the respective Publishers invest more in marketing and branding these franchises then they do in actual game development (billions), regard it a proven formula that works predictably, and anything else as competition and a threat.

While some of these Publishers will talk to 'Indy' Developers and even negotiate publishing contracts, those contracts will almost always be geared to gaining as much control over the Developers property possible, and these Publishers employ legal 'teams' retained with budgets larger then the gross income of many Developer/Studios that do nothing else but write reams of clever contract, with the end design to make sure the new work never conflicts with marketing plans for existing franchise products.

There are tragic examples where the talent of a particular Indy Developer so far surpassed the in-house franchise 'Duty'â„¢ branded product, the Indy Developer was quickly signed, the contract budget and production marginalized years of work cutting it down to a crap arcade junk-toy game 'product' to sell in the Publisher's 'Value' line where it would be virtually invisible. That one of many of these examples comes from a part of the world very close to home for BI, and is the doing of one of the 'nicer' Publishers probably rings familiar bells.

Mid-Size publishers, the risk-takers: Atari, Vivendi/Sierra, THQ and others like them are all in rough shape financially, which in an unforgiving economy makes them very risk averse presently so they don't have much in the way of marketing money to throw around. It is especially sad that the economy has been so tough on the segment of the Publishing industry that really cares about the originality and quality of what they turn out, and has been a friend to independent Developers -- but that's the shape of things today.

The really small publishers have little to offer over eTailers like Steam, Sprocket-IDEA, and contract publishing; they don't have the economic leverage for big advertising or large slotting contracts with brick and mortar retailers; though some like 505 can offer a more focused results oriented effort in a specific local market.

Like TCEd I'm a bit shocked by the marketing approach taken thus far with ArmA II... BI did a Homer Simpson with ArmA hitting nearly every branch and rock on their hard landing with ArmA marketing and publishing and just about the only saving grace was the Audience this game attracts, and the brilliant Mod Talent it manages to keep (much if it even surpassing BI's in-house talent). One would hope BI had learned from its mistakes... Hopefully (I want them to succeed) they are carefully marshalling their resources to make them count.

One of the prevailing issues may well be negotiations regarding overlapping publishing contracts with the various eTailers -- but the bottom line is TCEd correct, this is far too close to release to have all these loose ends -- with no firm/confirmed Publisher or even eTailer commitment for North America. The first three months is where a game stands to turn the most income, and even that typically peaks in less then sixty days; not having multiple easily accessible points of sale for all distribution methods in one of the largest markets on the globe is odd.

I probably got a little carried away there and said more then I should have responding to some of the comments in the thread...

:oh:

Edited May 21, 2009 by Hoak

[hoak 0]

I just was directed to this which implies something rather yucky -- i.e. that the Steam release could be UK region specific/limited (didn't know they could do that).

Booo...

:(

[Dangerdog 0]

Yep, it happens in reverse with quite a few games on Steam. It doesn't mean it'll not be on Steam for the US, just that 505 won't be the one providing it.

[TCEd 0]

Hoak, I appreciate your attention to detail, your posts/comments have provided more relevant & up to date news on this topic then any other sites I've visited. Let's hope that someone steps up soon to champion our cause.

And the news link to Steam releasing only in the UK, only further makes me doubt that a US release will be at or near the other releases.

I do believe that we can get a copy of the game, but it's the general US public/new first time gamers that will suffer, hence the game will suffer as well. Wow, that is not good. I still have hope, but the light is fading....

[Punisher5555 0]

Let's start the chant now: Steam, Steam, Steam, Steam, Steam....

You want to be a successful and "rich" video game producer in North America you release your game on Steam.

[hoak 0]

I do believe that we can get a copy of the game, but it's the general US public/new first time gamers that will suffer, hence the game will suffer as well. Wow, that is not good. I still have hope, but the light is fading....

Even though I'm a bit bewildered and frustrated by the number of conflicting and disappointing announcements; I'm hopeful as well. There's always a way to get a game only set for release in another market, heck I was among the anxious that tried them all with the ArmA -- whether it's timely, affordable and practical is quite another matter...

Fingers crossed though, whenever new news and information is out about NA access to the game it will be in this thread, and I'll post confirmed points of sale accessible to North American Consumers at the top of the thread with all the detail I can find and any caveats.

Let's start the chant now: Steam, Steam, Steam, Steam, Steam...

I agree, Steam would be a smart middle ground for BI, I hadn't even known Valve had rolled the region specific capability.

If BI can afford the overhead of a Publisher (505 in this case) selling the game electronically through Steam in one market, it's difficult to see how they can afford not to release ArmA II on Steam in all markets. They will loose more money by not having the game available, then they'll make on late larger margins (if larger margins can even be had which is doubtful).

A universal Steam release has other benefits once the cost of publishing through Steam has been found acceptable (which would certainly seem to be the case):

• Steam is non-exclusive so BI can still go ahead with any media publishing approach or even other electronic Publishers like Impulse, or Direct2Drive they're interested in employing in any market.
  
• BI can employ and benefit from Steam's proven Consumer Friendly DRM, and excellent VAC Anti-Cheat via SteamWorks, apply it to all non-Steam releases, even post release via patch if required.
  
• SteamWorks can also offer a nice, no additional cost means to synchronize patching all releases of the game, again even non-Steam DVD media releases (this was a problem and source of considerable frustration with ArmA).
  
• Steam offers proven, successful and scalable marketing tools to the Indy Developer that work.
  
• Defragments your Audience availing them of more active and playable games, which is a powerful marketing tool all its own.
  
• Offers free no-load 'Community Tools' (Support, Chat, VIOP, Forums, Groups, Etc,) for your game that is yet another powerful and proven marketing lever.
  
• Developrs often negotiate better media publishing offers after they're published on Steam.
  

Again, that the Steam pricing model already has been 'acceptable' for one market with the additional overhead of 505 making the deal, and everything Steam has to offer makes it a move that would be really difficult to understand were it not taken for North America.

:butbut:

Edited May 21, 2009 by Hoak

[TCEd 0]

Great post, wow if they would only grab this thing by the horns, it would be awesome!

I want to ask this again, do BI personal read/visit/post on these forums or are they run by the fans, because it would appear that some very logical & decent ideas & comments go by the way side, with no official responses.

I love the forums & site, my source flow atm, & it's a legitimate question because I truly don't know if BI personal read these forums.

[hoak 0]

I want to ask this again, do BI personal read/visit/post on these forums or are they run by the fans, because it would appear that some very logical & decent ideas & comments go by the way side, with no official responses.

I love the forums & site, my source flow atm, & it's a legitimate question because I truly don't know if BI personal read these forums.

They used to back when ArmA was in its prime (read and post), which was one of the things that I think really helped ArmA get over some of the rough spots and reassured Fans that this was the game and Developer for them.

I think the Mods may still concatenate important points or posts for someone at BI, but since the new iteration of forums things do seem awful quiet which is disappointing. The strange announcement of PR firm (for a market the game doesn't even have a publishing arrangement), and use of obtuse community venues like Twitter does imply a level of detachment that's disturbing...

Hopefully all the anomalous weirdness is not a repeat of what we had with ArmA, and is because BI are hard at work sewing a deal for our part of the world... It would be quite a marketing gaff to announce the release of the game, and like ArmA only release it to a fraction of its prospective market again -- the revenue and inertia BI will loose on that account will be enormous.

:o

Edited May 21, 2009 by Hoak

[easty 0]

Its all true about steam.. Look how often they update ARMA..

Hehe... But it's it is still at 1.08 on steam. Although you can just download the patches your self and install as with any other edition.

I'm all for steam over any other Digi-download.

[Steakslim 1]

yeah steam doesn't handle any updates for ArmA. ArmA on Steam simply exists to be downloaded and nothing more. Patches and what not you have to do yourself. Which is probably good considering the nature of the patches I.E. beta patches where Steam would throw a fit trying to verify your game's current state, trying to override it with the last steam update.

[Dwarden 1124]

i'm sure STEAM isn't ignored anymore ...

but on other hand it would be unwise to ignore rest online distribution systems like IMPULSE by StarDock or GamersGate, Direct2Drive and so on ...

more 'stores' ... bigger market % coverage ... and more happy customers ...

[Baker65 0]

I had hoped that they would have learned from the ArmA 1 rollout about getting a US publisher lined up before announcing the EU version release date to everyone. It's a bit frustrating having to wait.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Baker65

[twisted 127]

i'm sure STEAM isn't ignored anymore ...

but on other hand it would be unwise to ignore rest online distribution systems like and so on ...

more 'stores' ... bigger market % coverage ... and more happy customers ...

IMPULSE by StarDock

GamersGate

Direct2Drive

which one is best - anyone have dealings with them?

[Steakslim 1]

the only one out of those three I've heard results from was Direct2Drive, where the person suggested against it due to poor customer service, and then I think he went on a rant about other issues. I have no personal experience with D2D so I cannot say for sure.

[TCEd 0]

The only one out of those that I have dealt with is GamersGate, which is one of the last carriers for Arma1, most of our ppl, who got into the game during the last year, bought a download copy from GamersGate at a low price.

They have been reliably for this and we have pointed all new players to their site. To my knowledge, everyone we sent there, regardless of where the live in the world, has been able to buy a copy from them. I hope they offer ARMA2.

I have very little dealing with D2D, only because of my FilePlanet account, no dealings with them in reference to Arma.

[hoak 0]

The Armaholic guys recently met with 505 for the press event in London, James and Jan of BI were there; here's what was said about the North American Release (full quote for context):

Mark from 505 confirmed to me that 505 Games would be publishing ArmA 2 in the Land Down Under. And the AU/NZ release date will be "weeks not months behind the European release"!

As for North America. There is no solid info. All the BIS and 505 guys said is that "discussions are preceding". Keep an eye out on the forums for more information regarding this.

"Discussions are preceding", is about as vague as you can get, and in my experience is hardly a realistic portrayal of anything but the outcome of the most inept negotiation between Developer and Publisher -- everyone knows what they have invested, how much it costs, and what the options are -- any discussion that can't be wrapped up in less then an afternoon this close to release is a foregone conclusion, or embarrassing indecisiveness.

My impression is there are either stubborn 'results be damned' personalities involved at BI, or BI remain 'Babes lost in the North American woods'... In either case they stand to, and will loose much more then we who wait by a deal not done in North America at the announced release.

Very unfortunate...

:(

[Litos 10]

Wow, thats...sigh.

[Laqueesha 474]

There's always digital download... :(

[Guest]

"Discussions are preceding"

As I am no longer sure what was said to me at the end of the event by a 505 guy I cant give you a quote.

Let me just say that when he answered my question directed at the "delay" of releasing the tools in conjunction with finding a North American publisher I was under the impression from his answer a N - A publisher could be announced soon, something like we would not have to worry about that too much.

If that meant the tools would become available before a N - A release or a publisher would be announced soon is something you can all start specualtion about now :p

[cross 1]

I think BIS, rightfully, sees majority of N-A as a "console market" and take their time to finalize publisher/marketing issue until they are ready to release the console version.

Maybe a month from now..

[spec_ops_sniper 0]

I think BIS, rightfully, sees majority of N-A as a "console market" and take their time to finalize publisher/marketing issue until they are ready to release the console version.

Maybe a month from now..

I can see how they think that, i have already recruited 20 people to get ARMA 2 when it is eventually released. You should have seen their faces when i showed them ArmA with ACE Mod. jaws dropping.

[TCEd 0]

I don't think their that naive, sure the US does have a large console market, but all they have to do, something I'm sure someone as BIS has done, is look at US sales for Arma1, that alone should be a gauge for them & also how it could have been better if the release efforts the first time around were handled differently.

It's a business matter, regardless of what they feel or think, it's very financially wise to included the US market, as much as possible, in their promotion & release of this game, no matter how you slice it & that is what baffles so many ppl.

Look at it this way, if you guys wanted to sell a product, regardless of what country you live in, & there was a huge demand for your product in the US, wouldn't you do all you could to make sure that target group had information, promotional advertisement & was a focus from you, that would make the potential buyers of said product all the more interested? Sure you would, because of the end result.

I hope that Foxhound's intuition is correct & that we get some kind of announcement soon, so US buyer/players can breath a sigh of relief. Up till now, it's been a roller coaster ride that gives me the willies.

[Emberwolf 0]

I can see how they think that, i have already recruited 20 people to get ARMA 2 when it is eventually released. You should have seen their faces when i showed them ArmA with ACE Mod. jaws dropping.

Same story here, except with four other friends.

I feel like an ass for sharing my excitement for ArmA2 and now it seems as though we're going to get screwed over on the release date.

It would be very depressing if OFPDR released before ArmA2 in the states.

[Dwarden 1124]

IMPULSE by StarDock

GamersGate

Direct2Drive

which one is best - anyone have dealings with them?

biggest is very hard to measure

STEAM claims 20+ millions active accounts

IMPULSE claims 1+ million active accounts

GamersGate, GoodOldGames, GameTap are believed in hundreds thousands active accounts

Direct2Drive as one of oldest is probably in millions ...

this is are just soft estimates based on various marketing and economical official releases ....