Next generation freeaim or floating zone

[Chill xl 10]

Altough i really like the floating zone concept and even the "feel" it gives ingame i have to admit i'm going back to a disabled freeaim. I'm kinda stuck in between, i love having the ability to aim / move your weapon "free" from your bodymovement but the way it's implemented and works together with trackir it doesnt allow me to aquire targets and engage them very quickly. Also moving around feels clumsy because without a crosshair its hard to notice what direction your body is facing. Because of this i moved back to a non-floating zone, that feels kinda weird atm too and makes me realise that freeaim is for sure the way to go, if it's implemented differently...

Freeaim basicly means aiming freely from your body movement, which are usely tied strict together. When playing a FPS with freeaim you basicly have 3 parts that need / can be controlled:

* Lower body (movement or main direction)

* Upper body (aiming)

* Head (looking - TrackIr)

Atm, using a floating zone in Arma basicly means your aim is unlocked from you overall direction when inside a specifc area in the middle of the screen, once your aim outside this area your aim will be tied to your direction and you will be controlling your movement. Also the "look" direction is derived from your overall direction. In practise this means your overall movement is disabled untill your aim is at the edges of the screen, also your looking will be affected by the overall movement. All together it gives a unpredictable feeling...

I think freeaim would work better when the main direction and look direction would be 3 controlled parts would be derived from your aiming direction or upper body. I think freeaim should be "inside out" so to say. Instead of moving your weapon freely on the screen it should stay fixed on the screen asuming you are looking straight ahead. In real life a soldier would keep his eyes / head close to the weapon and use this combination to look around, in other words, the weapon is always pointing where the soldier is looking unless his looking away from the weapon / around. Aiming / "moving the whole screen" a certain degree away from your overall direction would start to affect the overall direction or in other words your body starts to turn. This way the floating zone isnt affecting the aim but the movement.

Hope you understand what the idea is all about, to make it more clear you can experience it in real life. Imagine your holding a rifle and aim it. Your hands would be somwhat in front of your head, and you will be looking over your hand with one eye. To look around you will move your head and upperbody together keeping your hands in place in front of your head. (Aim and look tied together). Move around, you will noticed that to turn, you actually use your upper body to give direction to your lower body. Looking around (like with Trackir or freelook) doesnt affect your upper and lower body. To aim in a different direction as your direction of movement is, doesnt mean you move your hands away from your head. You will use your entire upperobody and head to aim in a certain direction. Arma does this the otherway around and therefore feels weird to me...

Edited April 15, 2009 by Chill xl

[Electricleash 133]

Could you illustrate what you mean...? gah! my head now hurts...

[SaBrE_UK 0]

I understand what you mean, but the thing is people have so many different preferences. I'd like to see a similar system, but it's arguably not worth the huge amount of time it would take to create a system such as this. Ultimately, though, I would like to see the various nuances of human movement simulated in games.

[mr.g-c 6]

Yes there should be an improvement definately!

BTW, related: I hate Armas Float-Zone... it is so unresponsive odd feeling and whatnot... while in OFP1 the fixed one had simply great feeling....

I have compared the features at those two games and i think its because the sensitivity is different between the floating zone and the actual body turn in Arma1, while in OFP1 its equal, thus making it feel better...

Please BIS can you change that/give option to have equal mouse sensitivity both while in floating zone and when turning your actual body, once you reached the end of the floating zone?

[SaBrE_UK 0]

Please BIS can you change that/give option to have equal mouse sensitivity both while in floating zone and when turning your actual body, once you reached the end of the floating zone?

That is one thing that really should be fixed.

[sk3pt 0]

Please BIS can you change that/give option to have equal mouse sensitivity both while in floating zone and when turning your actual body, once you reached the end of the floating zone?

Are you asking for a faster player turn speed, or a 'slower' floating zone ?

[mr.g-c 6]

Are you asking for a faster player turn speed, or a 'slower' floating zone ?

Actually that doesn't matter... if its equal you can set it how fast you like...

But i think Arma1 has to much sensitivity when in free-float zone and suddenly gets stopped and clumsy once you move your actual body....

[sk3pt 0]

I don't really have a problem with that, but I would really like the floating zone to be a little more customizable, as described : here and here

[Chill xl 10]

My explaination was maybe a little confusing. At the moment freeaim is like a framework on screen / view, in which the weapon can be moved (aiming) freely. When you hit the border of the frame, you will reposition the framework. Your body starts to turn according to this repositioning. Your screen / view will stay at the same position untill the framework is moved. You can say that in this case the floating zone is a fixed area on screen and the screen.

You can see on this image the floating zone or framework. It is tied and at a fixed position on the screen.

I would like to see the screen being tied to the aiming, moved the weapon and the whole screen like any other fps without freeaim. But in this case only the movement is not directly affected by the aiming, only when aimed outside of the floating zone your body will start moving / turning. You can say in this case that the floating zone is an area tied to the direction of the body only and not to the screen.

I've seen some interesting ideas about the floating zone:

• Adjustable floating zone size for both axis
  
• Adjustable floating zone offset for both axis
  
• Toggle feature to enable / disable floating zone on the fly (bindable with other functions like for example "sights")
  
• Option to tie the floating zone to the to screen or to the body only (basicly option to disable my sugestion)
  

Edited April 16, 2009 by Chill xl

[Chill xl 10]

To make it more clear i made a quick illustration. In the current situation one can move the aim / weapon (red arrow) freely in the redish area. Once the edge of that area is reached the player starts to turn, the green arrow indicates this turn of direction. You can see that the field of view and also the floating are tied to body, once the body starts to turn, the FOV and floating zone turn accordingly.

In the suggested situation, the FOV is centered (atleast horizontally) to the aiming direction. Once the aiming reaches the edge of the floating zone, the body starts to turn. In this case the FOV is tied to the aiming and the floating zone is tied to the body.

[Raphier 0]

Yup, I am for this! It's kina hard to explain it...but the floating zone in Armed Assault is clumsy and slow.

[sidhellfire 0]

I was considering having a floating only while looking trough sights (V button), and while not, reverse the float. I mean, that when you're not aiming a weapon, the primary function is to look around, so the head turns firts, and then weapon and body aligns with a slight delay (cannot be big, cause would be annoying). If the speed of align to the viewpoint would be dependent on a moving speed it would somewhat simulate the force of inertia. Now in every game player running fast forward turns rapidly. Take a look at football games, where players run all the time, and whenever they do a bigger turn than 30° degrees, it's not even non-instant, but also slows player down greatly. When soldier do carry ~40kg equipment, the effect of inertia should be even more radical.

Edited April 16, 2009 by sidhellfire

[4 IN 1 0]

it is already in there, just enable free look and look down to the sight without TIR then you will have it, the only problem is as long as free look is enabled, you cant change your direction with mouse anymore

IMO i dont think this is a better system then we have right now, because it will upset many others who supported and used to the OFP style

fixing the mouse draging problem is more important IMO

Edited April 16, 2009 by 4 IN 1

[Alex72 1]

Hard to do things like this properly when we cant use all our muscles in the game. Thats why many compromises are needed when it comes to sway, turn speeds and all the rest. Makes no sense to add some fully realistic features when we cant fully control them, and it all just makes it harder to play. But not due to its realistic. Only cause we cant cotrol it as in real life, and thus a lot of fun/game value goes lost. A better freeaim for TIR users might be possible to implement like stated.

An example is the free steering that we will get in ARMA2 for vehicles (also in ARMA1 since 1.15b) and it does not work properly as it needs to be made as in race sims. Where the middle (steering wheel not turned any way) has thick/slow handling, and then goes faster/easier the further out you steer. This makes it feel like you have proper control of the car (simulates a bit of muscle to us). As it is now with free mouse steering i cant keep on the road as it steers too easy back and forth (with mouse).

Solution: It should be thicker in the middle and a slider can add the thickness to very thick and down to no thickness at all for those who prefer it. Works in race sims.

Since im getting TIR as well, and IF the floating/freeaim gets to a point where it makes sense to use it - it will be a great feature. Right now its like aiming with a gamepad to me. Impossible to hit anything that moves.

Alex

[Benoist 0]

I was considering having a floating only while looking trough sights (V button), and while not, reverse the float. I mean, that when you're not aiming a weapon, the primary function is to look around, so the head turns firts, and then weapon and body aligns with a slight delay (cannot be big, cause would be annoying). If the speed of align to the viewpoint would be dependent on a moving speed it would somewhat simulate the force of inertia. Now in every game player running fast forward turns rapidly. Take a look at football games, where players run all the time, and whenever they do a bigger turn than 30° degrees, it's not even non-instant, but also slows player down greatly. When soldier do carry ~40kg equipment, the effect of inertia should be even more radical.

You mean like Red Orchesta? (more or less)

[gromacs 10]

(1st post)

How about right click for float zone, and hold right click for another type of ADS of the player's liking (such as no float zone or move head with float zone as you suggest)?

[galzohar 31]

The main problem with the idea is that it will become very difficult to tell where your soldier will run when you hit the "forward" key. With the current system it is easy. Though to be honest I don't find that too great either and just turn off floating zone altogether.

[Militant1006 11]

yeah it is incredibly hard to implement properly, for me, I wish that it was possible to move the screen without moving your weapon around, so you don't have to push the weapon to the edge of the screen to turn the screen around, but this does require extra controls.

There are many things you can do with deadzone, and it does feel cool, but I have it disabled usually for quicker turning and knowing where I am shooting (I never play with crosshair on at all).

That does bring another point in. Currently I absolutely hate the crosshair, it is far, far too accurate, it would be smart to replace it with a crosshair that is a larger circle or lines or something, making it a little harder to shoot, or even making the weapon sway within the larger circle, but it is more accurate when aiming down the sights, but it would still mean keeping the actual weapon ballistics without doing what they do in most FPS games, where the bullets randomly go within a large area, regardless of where the weapon is pointing. IMO this would also make IR lasers much more usefull, knowing where the weapon is pointing without using the sights.

Too many ideas, lol

[max power 21]

I wish that it was possible to move the screen without moving your weapon around, so you don't have to push the weapon to the edge of the screen to turn the screen around, but this does require extra controls.

If you mash or double-tap left alt with your thumb, you get free look... But I take it you're talking about something different.

[defk0n_NL 2]

The main problem with the idea is that it will become very difficult to tell where your soldier will run when you hit the "forward" key. With the current system it is easy. Though to be honest I don't find that too great either and just turn off floating zone altogether.

They should make running and walking just act like normal controls but with unlocked aim when standing still or moving slow enough to actually aim.

You need to make a clear distinction in what part of the body/mesh controls what. Free aim for running doesnt make sense because your lower body motor skills are not refined as your upper body.

Added a issue on the feedback tracker.

Without this feature arma 3 will loose my support/appeal.

Its just not immersive enough with the current controls

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=2294

Edited March 9, 2013 by defk0n_NL

[Ellerz 1]

Altough i really like the floating zone concept and even the "feel" it gives ingame i have to admit i'm going back to a disabled freeaim. I'm kinda stuck in between, i love having the ability to aim / move your weapon "free" from your bodymovement but the way it's implemented and works together with trackir it doesnt allow me to aquire targets and engage them very quickly. Also moving around feels clumsy because without a crosshair its hard to notice what direction your body is facing. Because of this i moved back to a non-floating zone, that feels kinda weird atm too and makes me realise that freeaim is for sure the way to go, if it's implemented differently...

Freeaim basicly means aiming freely from your body movement, which are usely tied strict together. When playing a FPS with freeaim you basicly have 3 parts that need / can be controlled:

* Lower body (movement or main direction)

* Upper body (aiming)

* Head (looking - TrackIr)

Atm, using a floating zone in Arma basicly means your aim is unlocked from you overall direction when inside a specifc area in the middle of the screen, once your aim outside this area your aim will be tied to your direction and you will be controlling your movement. Also the "look" direction is derived from your overall direction. In practise this means your overall movement is disabled untill your aim is at the edges of the screen, also your looking will be affected by the overall movement. All together it gives a unpredictable feeling...

I think freeaim would work better when the main direction and look direction would be 3 controlled parts would be derived from your aiming direction or upper body. I think freeaim should be "inside out" so to say. Instead of moving your weapon freely on the screen it should stay fixed on the screen asuming you are looking straight ahead. In real life a soldier would keep his eyes / head close to the weapon and use this combination to look around, in other words, the weapon is always pointing where the soldier is looking unless his looking away from the weapon / around. Aiming / "moving the whole screen" a certain degree away from your overall direction would start to affect the overall direction or in other words your body starts to turn. This way the floating zone isnt affecting the aim but the movement.

Hope you understand what the idea is all about, to make it more clear you can experience it in real life. Imagine your holding a rifle and aim it. Your hands would be somwhat in front of your head, and you will be looking over your hand with one eye. To look around you will move your head and upperbody together keeping your hands in place in front of your head. (Aim and look tied together). Move around, you will noticed that to turn, you actually use your upper body to give direction to your lower body. Looking around (like with Trackir or freelook) doesnt affect your upper and lower body. To aim in a different direction as your direction of movement is, doesnt mean you move your hands away from your head. You will use your entire upperobody and head to aim in a certain direction. Arma does this the otherway around and therefore feels weird to me...

I see what you mean, I would want it to make waist turns when you have no aiming deadzon, it looks better moving your upper body instead as you can see in this video when he has deadzone on youtube.com/watch?v=Q3q8N_L1VQQ. It would look better with the animation. It looks weird to move your legs like that, you could just move the upper body when you are Crouching For example. It's not realistic because moving your legs instead of the upper body would lead to poorer aim when looking from a different angle. Besides, you don't want to see your legs magically turn when you do not see your legs even move. So I would want bohemia interactive would fix better animation with the aiming deadzone off.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Ellerz