[TRANSLATION] Interview about ArmA 2

[HKFlash 9]

What's the stuff about the clutter not working? It is! Take 15 minutes and try it out in the editor. It's just a stupid myth that's been around since OFP 1.0 which had some problems with it IIRC, and it survives only because people think that just because you're behind foliage you can't be seen.

I recommend those that criticise the clutter to go out and do a few tests in the woods IRL. Vegetation isn't solid, and any movement behind some bushes are pretty damn noticeable.

I remember in OFP, in the mission where you loose your buddies and are left alone on the woods, I would lay low in the bushes and stand still.

An entire patrol managed to pass by and miss me. This is the only example i can remember, but hey,I don't play OFP for years now and I never played Armed Assault. But it worked fine... although im sure its not perfect.

[ricnunes 0]

What's the stuff about the clutter not working? It is! Take 15 minutes and try it out in the editor. It's just a stupid myth that's been around since OFP 1.0 which had some problems with it IIRC, and it survives only because people think that just because you're behind foliage you can't be seen.

I recommend those that criticise the clutter to go out and do a few tests in the woods IRL. Vegetation isn't solid, and any movement behind some bushes are pretty damn noticeable.

I remember in OFP, in the mission where you loose your buddies and are left alone on the woods, I would lay low in the bushes and stand still.

An entire patrol managed to pass by and miss me. This is the only example i can remember, but hey,I don't play OFP for years now and I never played Armed Assault. But it worked fine... although im sure its not perfect.

Yes that's correct (I also remember similar situations in OFP) but the problem is that in OFP situations like you described happend quite frequently while the same situations are simply NOT POSSIBLE in ArmA (the AIs will always see you in those situations).

Besides, the AIs seeing you thru vegetation is definitly NOT a urban myth and the proof is that there is a mod called "Durgs Vegetation" (or "Vegetation Fix") which fixes the AIs seeing thru vegetation (by improving the AI-blocking view in the diferent kind of vegetation) and this question in the interview was asked because the fact that the AIs sees thru vegetation is a well know issue among ArmA players.

Honestly, I'm also worried about the fact that BIS devs don't admit there's a problem with AIs seeing thru vegetation in ArmA...

Not quite related I guess, but a similar issue is that in OFP you could sneak (stealthy) into an enemy base, killing a few guards with silenced guns without alerting the base but in ArmA this is simply NOT possible because once you kill a guard (even if there aren't any other enemy guards nearby) with a silenced gun the entire base is instantly put on alert.

[oscar19681 0]

What's the stuff about the clutter not working? It is! Take 15 minutes and try it out in the editor. It's just a stupid myth that's been around since OFP 1.0 which had some problems with it IIRC, and it survives only because people think that just because you're behind foliage you can't be seen.

I recommend those that criticise the clutter to go out and do a few tests in the woods IRL. Vegetation isn't solid, and any movement behind some bushes are pretty damn noticeable.

I remember in OFP, in the mission where you loose your buddies and are left alone on the woods, I would lay low in the bushes and stand still.

An entire patrol managed to pass by and miss me. This is the only example i can remember, but hey,I don't play OFP for years now and I never played Armed Assault. But it worked fine... although im sure its not perfect.

Yes that's correct (I also remember similar situations in OFP) but the problem is that in OFP situations like you described happend quite frequently while the same situations are simply NOT POSSIBLE in ArmA (the AIs will always see you in those situations).

Besides, the AIs seeing you thru vegetation is definitly NOT a urban myth and the proof is that there is a mod called "Durgs Vegetation" (or "Vegetation Fix") which fixes the AIs seeing thru vegetation (by improving the AI-blocking view in the diferent kind of vegetation) and this question in the interview was asked because the fact that the AIs sees thru vegetation is a well know issue among ArmA players.

Honestly, I'm also worried about the fact that BIS devs don't admit there's a problem with AIs seeing thru vegetation in ArmA...

Not quite related I guess, but a similar issue is that in OFP you could sneak (stealthy) into an enemy base, killing a few guards with silenced guns without alerting the base but in ArmA this is simply NOT possible because once you kill a guard (even if there aren't any other enemy guards nearby) with a silenced gun the entire base is instantly put on alert.

Yep you are right. I tested this so called urban myth in arma.

I hid deep in the forest behind bushed on my 12 , 3 and 9 o clock. I let an infantry squad pass my posisiton while in safe mode. And everytime they spotted me even though i remained complety silent and still. They spot me every time. Even though i,m deep in the woods in bushes and in teh shade. Guess this myth aint busted yet. I also hope they fix the stealth base infiltration . How are we gonna be covert with team razor if we get made in these situations.

[HKFlash 9]

Yeah no doubt about it these are urgent matters that affect gameplay...ALOT! But if BIS fails this time they can't say we didn't warn them.

[WhoCares 0]

... I also hope they fix the stealth base infiltration . How are we gonna be covert with team razor if we get made in these situations.

Do it at night - I played ArmA/QG infiltration missions and at night the guards passed just one or two meters from me but still failed to detect me. And that was inside the base without foliage for concealment...

[ck-claw 1]

But it does seems hit or miss?

I remember a mission in Ofp as a spec-op you had to go down a hill.

Take out a couple of gun en-campments then further down the hill to blow some bmps!

Used to crawl most of the way but there was a square shaped section of bushes-god used to hide in the for ages with the bmps going up and down the road!

[4 IN 1 0]

Durgs Vegetation do the trick by increasing the size of the ai view blocking into a more OFP like style

[NoRailgunner 0]

Thanks for translation!

Imho BIS should add some swearing/shouting/crying sounds to units + gear/equipment should make some noise too.

For vegetation it would be usefull to implement some "crackling" sounds.

Walking/running through a bush makes noise and the human eye is able to detect movements. I'm for good and proper AI behaviour: same way a human player could react if he see some suspicious things. AI should randomly fire some bullets at suspicious things "to be sure" there is no one is hiding

Btw its still a urban myth that weapons with suppressors and subsonic ammo are 100% silent and not recognisable.  

[lecholas 2]

How long have you been working on ArmA 2?

The work began practically after the release of ArmA: Queen's Gambit datadisc, even though some some models come from the original project of Game 2 or the military simulation VBS 2.

Well, this reply confused me a bit. I allways ignored discussions about 'is ArmA2 the same game that so called 'Game 2'' because I thought the answer is obvious: it is. But now the developers themselves say something from which we can infer that those are two different projects. Not that it matters that much, but I thought that ArmA was a side project (OFP 1.5) while the Game 2 (which I thought to be the same as ArmA2) was still in delopment from the days of OFP:R...

So, as I understand it, ArmA2 project was started after ArmA:QG but it contains some work (we can read that it includes 'models', but is it solutions, code, etc. as well?) from original Game 2. And the original Game 2 was abandoned?

[whisper 0]

What's the stuff about the clutter not working? It is! Take 15 minutes and try it out in the editor. It's just a stupid myth that's been around since OFP 1.0 which had some problems with it IIRC, and it survives only because people think that just because you're behind foliage you can't be seen.

I recommend those that criticise the clutter to go out and do a few tests in the woods IRL. Vegetation isn't solid, and any movement behind some bushes are pretty damn noticeable.

I remember in OFP, in the mission where you loose your buddies and are left alone on the woods, I would lay low in the bushes and stand still.

An entire patrol managed to pass by and miss me. This is the only example i can remember, but hey,I don't play OFP for years now and I never played Armed Assault. But it worked fine... although im sure its not perfect.

Yes that's correct (I also remember similar situations in OFP) but the problem is that in OFP situations like you described happend quite frequently while the same situations are simply NOT POSSIBLE in ArmA (the AIs will always see you in those situations).

Besides, the AIs seeing you thru vegetation is definitly NOT a urban myth and the proof is that there is a mod called "Durgs Vegetation" (or "Vegetation Fix") which fixes the AIs seeing thru vegetation (by improving the AI-blocking view in the diferent kind of vegetation) and this question in the interview was asked because the fact that the AIs sees thru vegetation is a well know issue among ArmA players.

Honestly, I'm also worried about the fact that BIS devs don't admit there's a problem with AIs seeing thru vegetation in ArmA...

Errrr..

Durg's Vegetation fix simply enhance the existing AI view-blocking system.

Meaning if you keep, in vanilla ArmA, right into the center of the vegetation, you won't be seen.

To put it simply :

"AI sees through vegetation in ArmA" is wrong

"AI sees better through vegetation than what player can do" is correct.

AI vegetation fix was put in place for people that felt that the view-blocking of vegetation was not enough (ofc exagerated everywhere as "vegetation is useless in ArmA")

But the functionnality is definitely there.

Imho the uber ears of AI soldiers is more of an issue.

As for grass blocking view, I tested it right after the patch that made it AI view blocking, and it somewhat worked. It's really not the best hiding place, you'd need to be on a slope that makes you really "inside" the grass from AI PoV, not move, and be rather far away, but compared to the same placement, lying on a road, I've been able to hide.

Like vegetation view blocking, it's quite limited but the funtionality is here.

[Undeceived 392]

Thanks for the translation, Deadfast!

[Kimmeh 0]

I'll see what I can do

You're my hero!

[paragraphic l 2]

How long have you been working on ArmA 2?

The work began practically after the release of ArmA: Queen's Gambit datadisc, even though some some models come from the original project of Game 2 or the military simulation VBS 2.

Well, this reply confused me a bit. I allways ignored discussions about 'is ArmA2 the same game that so called 'Game 2'' because I thought the answer is obvious: it is. But now the developers themselves say something from which we can infer that those are two different projects. Not that it matters that much, but I thought that ArmA was a side project (OFP 1.5) while the Game 2 (which I thought to be the same as ArmA2) was still in delopment from the days of OFP:R...

So, as I understand it, ArmA2 project was started after ArmA:QG but it contains some work (we can read that it includes 'models', but is it solutions, code, etc. as well?) from original Game 2. And the original Game 2 was abandoned?

I always thought that ArmA was a sort of status report of where they where with GAME 2. Used the (almost) finished stuff and made it into ArmA while developing some specific GAME 2 stuff like RPG-elements etc. And I guess after QG they focused most of their attention on ArmA 2 and collected both GAME 2 data (inovations) as ArmA user data ( bugreports etc.) to create the new game.

[Second 0]

What's the stuff about the clutter not working? It is! Take 15 minutes and try it out in the editor. It's just a stupid myth that's been around since OFP 1.0 which had some problems with it IIRC, and it survives only because people think that just because you're behind foliage you can't be seen.

I recommend those that criticise the clutter to go out and do a few tests in the woods IRL. Vegetation isn't solid, and any movement behind some bushes are pretty damn noticeable.

I remember in OFP, in the mission where you loose your buddies and are left alone on the woods, I would lay low in the bushes and stand still.

An entire patrol managed to pass by and miss me. This is the only example i can remember, but hey,I don't play OFP for years now and I never played Armed Assault. But it worked fine... although im sure its not perfect.

Yes that's correct (I also remember similar situations in OFP) but the problem is that in OFP situations like you described happend quite frequently while the same situations are simply NOT POSSIBLE in ArmA (the AIs will always see you in those situations).

Besides, the AIs seeing you thru vegetation is definitly NOT a urban myth and the proof is that there is a mod called "Durgs Vegetation" (or "Vegetation Fix") which fixes the AIs seeing thru vegetation (by improving the AI-blocking view in the diferent kind of vegetation) and this question in the interview was asked because the fact that the AIs sees thru vegetation is a well know issue among ArmA players.

Honestly, I'm also worried about the fact that BIS devs don't admit there's a problem with AIs seeing thru vegetation in ArmA...

Not quite related I guess, but a similar issue is that in OFP you could sneak (stealthy) into an enemy base, killing a few guards with silenced guns without alerting the base but in ArmA this is simply NOT possible because once you kill a guard (even if there aren't any other enemy guards nearby) with a silenced gun the entire base is instantly put on alert.

I'm worried that people still has idea that this is in ArmA. Why doesn't people test these things before making their conclusions. As a side note: I have tested it and i can agree that this is mere urban myth. Trust me it takes just 15 minutes to test that.

Your post's last part isn't 100% on mark. As: If you hit to head they go down without anyone knowing it as they don't scream. I had long debate about this over year ago in these forums. Test it, i will take less then 15 minutes.

[Second 0]

AI vegetation fix was put in place for people that felt that the view-blocking of vegetation was not enough (ofc exagerated everywhere as "vegetation is useless in ArmA")

But the functionnality is definitely there.

Imho the uber ears of AI soldiers is more of an issue.

I'm not sure can AI fire only by hearing, basically meaning that they can fire thru concealment if player is loud enough (=firing too much) even if they dont' see player. Funnily even when i've fiddled quite a deal with AI, haven't got certainty is this true or false.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Thanks a lot for the translation.

Quote[/b] ]Regarding the support, I dare to say you hardly find a developer (or publisher) which would be so devoted to its community. It's not just the development tools, wiki and official forums, but we're also in regular contact with fan sites and development groups.

Mmm... true but we cannot say that this "devotion to the community" wasn't profitable...buying buggy games, debugging them...buying buggy expansion, debugging them...the community is working for free, and i'm sure that OFP copies are still sold here and there, mainly to benefit from the addons made by the community...i'm not ungrateful, i'm having a lot of fun playing / modding those games but our community is a valuable asset of the BI corporation !

[ricnunes 0]

What's the stuff about the clutter not working? It is! Take 15 minutes and try it out in the editor. It's just a stupid myth that's been around since OFP 1.0 which had some problems with it IIRC, and it survives only because people think that just because you're behind foliage you can't be seen.

I recommend those that criticise the clutter to go out and do a few tests in the woods IRL. Vegetation isn't solid, and any movement behind some bushes are pretty damn noticeable.

I remember in OFP, in the mission where you loose your buddies and are left alone on the woods, I would lay low in the bushes and stand still.

An entire patrol managed to pass by and miss me. This is the only example i can remember, but hey,I don't play OFP for years now and I never played Armed Assault. But it worked fine... although im sure its not perfect.

Yes that's correct (I also remember similar situations in OFP) but the problem is that in OFP situations like you described happend quite frequently while the same situations are simply NOT POSSIBLE in ArmA (the AIs will always see you in those situations).

Besides, the AIs seeing you thru vegetation is definitly NOT a urban myth and the proof is that there is a mod called "Durgs Vegetation" (or "Vegetation Fix") which fixes the AIs seeing thru vegetation (by improving the AI-blocking view in the diferent kind of vegetation) and this question in the interview was asked because the fact that the AIs sees thru vegetation is a well know issue among ArmA players.

Honestly, I'm also worried about the fact that BIS devs don't admit there's a problem with AIs seeing thru vegetation in ArmA...

Not quite related I guess, but a similar issue is that in OFP you could sneak (stealthy) into an enemy base, killing a few guards with silenced guns without alerting the base but in ArmA this is simply NOT possible because once you kill a guard (even if there aren't any other enemy guards nearby) with a silenced gun the entire base is instantly put on alert.

I'm worried that people still has idea that this is in ArmA. Why doesn't people test these things before making their conclusions. As a side note: I have tested it and i can agree that this is mere urban myth. Trust me it takes just 15 minutes to test that.

Your post's last part isn't 100% on mark. As: If you hit to head they go down without anyone knowing it as they don't scream. I had long debate about this over year ago in these forums. Test it, i will take less then 15 minutes.

And I'm worried about people that assume that others are idiot enough to not test things and post things without testing! So who said to you that I didn't test?? Really I'm worried about people who assume that others (who have diferent oppinions) are a bunch of idiots that never test things!!

But getting back on track, I DID TEST and I can confirm that in the same bush I CAN NOT hide from enemy soldiers and worse even from enemy vehicles such as BMPs while with Durgs Vegetation instead I CAN (sucessfully) hide from enemy soldiers and vehicles!

And pal, If you don't have problems hidding behind bushes (in vanilla ArmA - Without Durgs Vegetation) you must certainly have a diferent version of ArmA than the vast majority of players because most of us don't have the same experience that you have (regarding this issue).

BTW, did you read the post from oscar19681? He clearly stated that he tested and confirmed basically what I said. But I forgot, no-one on earth test things except you

Regading your comment "If you hit to head they go down without anyone knowing it as they don't scream", this is simply not true because even when I hit enemy soldiers in the head, THEY WILL ALWAYS SCREAM! (again unless you have a diferent ArmA game than mine)

[ricnunes 0]

What's the stuff about the clutter not working? It is! Take 15 minutes and try it out in the editor. It's just a stupid myth that's been around since OFP 1.0 which had some problems with it IIRC, and it survives only because people think that just because you're behind foliage you can't be seen.

I recommend those that criticise the clutter to go out and do a few tests in the woods IRL. Vegetation isn't solid, and any movement behind some bushes are pretty damn noticeable.

I remember in OFP, in the mission where you loose your buddies and are left alone on the woods, I would lay low in the bushes and stand still.

An entire patrol managed to pass by and miss me. This is the only example i can remember, but hey,I don't play OFP for years now and I never played Armed Assault. But it worked fine... although im sure its not perfect.

Yes that's correct (I also remember similar situations in OFP) but the problem is that in OFP situations like you described happend quite frequently while the same situations are simply NOT POSSIBLE in ArmA (the AIs will always see you in those situations).

Besides, the AIs seeing you thru vegetation is definitly NOT a urban myth and the proof is that there is a mod called "Durgs Vegetation" (or "Vegetation Fix") which fixes the AIs seeing thru vegetation (by improving the AI-blocking view in the diferent kind of vegetation) and this question in the interview was asked because the fact that the AIs sees thru vegetation is a well know issue among ArmA players.

Honestly, I'm also worried about the fact that BIS devs don't admit there's a problem with AIs seeing thru vegetation in ArmA...

Errrr..

Durg's Vegetation fix simply enhance the existing AI view-blocking system.

Meaning if you keep, in vanilla ArmA, right into the center of the vegetation, you won't be seen.

To put it simply :

"AI sees through vegetation in ArmA" is wrong

"AI sees better through vegetation than what player can do" is correct.

AI vegetation fix was put in place for people that felt that the view-blocking of vegetation was not enough (ofc exagerated everywhere as "vegetation is useless in ArmA")

But the functionnality is definitely there.

Imho the uber ears of AI soldiers is more of an issue.

As for grass blocking view, I tested it right after the patch that made it AI view blocking, and it somewhat worked. It's really not the best hiding place, you'd need to be on a slope that makes you really "inside" the grass from AI PoV, not move, and be rather far away, but compared to the same placement, lying on a road, I've been able to hide.

Like vegetation view blocking, it's quite limited but the funtionality is here.

Yes, I know that. But it doesn't matter to me as a player if the problem is because of the AI itself that can always see thru obstacles (not matter what or how they are) or if the problem is instead related to how the vegetation is modeled.

What matters is that the problem (AIs seeing thru vegetation) still exists and assuming that the problem is related to how the vegetation is modeled (an not to the AI itself) the devs must correctly model the vegetation for ArmA2 so that this problem doesn't happen again (in ArmA2).

It's very frustrating to see a problem that wasn't existant in OFP appearing in ArmA and more frustrating even to see this problem happening again in ArmA2.

[paragraphic l 2]

Quote[/b] ]Errrr..

Durg's Vegetation fix simply enhance the existing AI view-blocking system.

Meaning if you keep, in vanilla ArmA, right into the center of the vegetation, you won't be seen.

To put it simply :

"AI sees through vegetation in ArmA" is wrong

"AI sees better through vegetation than what player can do" is correct.

AI vegetation fix was put in place for people that felt that the view-blocking of vegetation was not enough (ofc exagerated everywhere as "vegetation is useless in ArmA")

But the functionnality is definitely there.

Imho the uber ears of AI soldiers is more of an issue.

As for grass blocking view, I tested it right after the patch that made it AI view blocking, and it somewhat worked. It's really not the best hiding place, you'd need to be on a slope that makes you really "inside" the grass from AI PoV, not move, and be rather far away, but compared to the same placement, lying on a road, I've been able to hide.

Like vegetation view blocking, it's quite limited but the funtionality is here.

Yes, I know that. But it doesn't matter to me as a player if the problem is because of the AI itself that can always see thru obstacles (not matter what or how they are) or if the problem is instead related to how the vegetation is modeled.

What matters is that the problem (AIs seeing thru vegetation) still exists and assuming that the problem is related to how the vegetation is modeled (an not to the AI itself) the devs must correctly model the vegetation for ArmA2 so that this problem doesn't happen again (in ArmA2).

It's very frustrating to see a problem that wasn't existant in OFP appearing in ArmA and more frustrating even to see this problem happening again in ArmA2.

I do think it's not the vegetation that need's any fixing.

It's the AI that is maybe a bit to good in hearing and sharing information.

But I can still stay under the radar of all sorts of AI units by not moving... as long as they aren't allready aware of a least something to start with. A normal patrol will not spot me.

Tested in SP and MP co-op, using vanilla, SLX (only SP) and ACE. But this is not currently tested, yet in the last two years an overall experience.

[Michael_Wittman 0]

Thanks for the translation...the interview was looking promising on the first 4 or 5 questions but then I kinda felt like it rolled into soft balls or direct marketing when not.

First of all... maybe AI is scripted not to see through bushes etc... but in fact they do... or they have also a spiderman-like hearing that can hear you 500m away in the middle of a firefight sneaking behind bushes...area target is a joke...they shoot you in the f·"$"g head.

Scipting AI to take acount own weight to dont consume stamina is hard to code?????

This is when I start to be suspicious that the interviewer is speaking with someone at the marketing department rather than anybody else.

Some pending questions IMHO:

- Will the game support SLI and Crossfire tech?

- Will the game run better on 64 bit OS?

- Will there be strategic level AI?

- Will the transparency render fps drop be fixed?

- Will AI be capable of going inside buildings to chase you?

- Will AI be capable of using not solid buildings to cover?

- Will the vehicles and armor be fully funtional or will we see those useless monitor inside the strykers for example?

- Will armor warfare be more realistic?

- Will aircrafts carry counter measures?

- Will there be G/A weapons cappable vehicles?

- Will BIS only release patches in the aftermatch or will they also deliver new official maps? (some people over here will puke if they see something like Evolution ARMA II)

- Will there be mortars?

- Will there be whiteboard alike cappabilities for the comander on the map?

- Will there be weather seasons?

- Will there be more weather effects (wind, snow storm, iced terrain)?

- Will there be usable friendly-user tools for server admins?

- Will there be cheating protection?

- Will it be improved the hand-nade launching....you now...like being capable of softly droping them by a cliff if necessary

- Will there be cappability to dig trenches?

- Will there be engineer vehicles (anti-mines, bridge-trowers..etc?)

- Will there be not depleted-uranium-maded destroyed vehicles?

- Will destroyed vehicles models be more realistic?

- Will there be realistic use of hellfires and mavericks?

- Will we see tanks flying 400m in the air when hitting a rock?

.......I´m tired now but can go on later......  

[Raptor 10]

- Will there be mortars?

Yes there will be mortars, hopefully. Seeing

(0:17).

- Will there be weather seasons?

I think no, because the island is in autumn season so there is no reason to create new seasons and how shall they change them? in Realtime? :ugly:

But maybe BIS had a nice suprise for us and include a summer style island with green trees.

- Will there be more weather effects?

Yes one is confirmed sofar, ground fog.

EDIT:

thanks for the translation.

[Goeth 0]

Thanks for the translation Deadfast, good stuff there.

[Michael_Wittman 0]

terrain fog is allready in ACE mod....

Seasons are for the map editor...That would include not just winter textures but everyting regarding cold or freezing weather. It would be disapointing not to see snow in Chenorus in winter

[Raptor 10]

But you still not seeing how it is winter in Sahrani and how it is winter in Malden a.s.o. So why should they include these seasons in ArmA2?  

btw. sorry, don't know that ACE is ArmA2.

[JVJ 0]

Nice translation

Hope they wont delay the game too much now that q1 is almost over...