Server ability : URL forwarding of MISSION content

[Dwarden 1124]

72 @ Mar. 21 2009,22:35)]@Dwarden

LOL! Sorry mate for making you nuts.

Misunderstood the mission rotation bit. Thaught you wrote it was one of the downsides to have to download it all. No harm done. Still supporting. Even more now.

Alex

no problemo that's why i rewrote example once more just for sure

[tomcat_ 0]

that's a very good idea and i support it 100%.

However, i guess there will be an option to redirect to a website or just download straight from the server?

The reason i'm mentioning that...is that by adding, changing, updating missions...someone has to be doing the same on the website..as well as the server itself...which might lead to having one version for the server another for a website...

that's the only negative i can see....

i know i'm going a bit off topic here...but i really loved the BHD, Joint operations (novalogic) way of managing maps...where you had to upload them on the server...and clients didn't have to download the new missions....certainly requires different netcode and lots of coding...but i thought i should slip my suggestion in there...:)

[Johnnie_Walker 0]

Totally support this.

Downloading addons from within the game would also be very handy, just need to promt the user.

Adding a new shortcut would be just perfect.

[Dwarden 1124]

Totally support this.

Downloading addons from within the game would also be very handy, just need to promt the user.

Adding a new shortcut would be just perfect.

downloading addons is different and too complex change

(and as long you think in way how ArmA 1 operate)

that's why this is is (repeating myself again) only and

ONLY for mission downloading

NOT for maps

NOT for addons

when i think about some (part of) code is in theory already inside ArmA 1 - used for squad xml and logo

also same code could be usable as optional way for downloading custom files (face/sound)

[Johnnie_Walker 0]

Totally support this.

Downloading addons from within the game would also be very handy, just need to promt the user.

Adding a new shortcut would be just perfect.

downloading addons is different and too complex change

(and as long you think in way how ArmA 1 operate)

that's why this is is (repeating myself again) only and

ONLY for mission downloading

NOT for maps

NOT for addons

when i think about some (part of) code is in theory already inside ArmA 1 - used for squad xml and logo

also same code could be usable as optional way for downloading custom files (face/sound)

I didn't mean to load addons "on the fly", just being able to provide a download link for the addons. So the user just have to click yes and the needed addons are downloaded to a default addon folder, and game is restarted with the brand new addons loaded.

Not too complex if you ask me.

[rundll.exe 12]

Totally support this.

Downloading addons from within the game would also be very handy, just need to promt the user.

Adding a new shortcut would be just perfect.

downloading addons is different and too complex change

(and as long you think in way how ArmA 1 operate)

that's why this is is (repeating myself again) only and

ONLY for mission downloading

NOT for maps

NOT for addons

when i think about some (part of) code is in theory already inside ArmA 1 - used for squad xml and logo

also same code could be usable as optional way for downloading custom files (face/sound)

I didn't mean to load addons "on the fly", just being able to provide a download link for the addons. So the user just have to click yes and the needed addons are downloaded to a default addon folder, and game is restarted with the brand new addons loaded.

Not too complex if you ask me.

And if that doesnt make it: Just a simple link that pops up to a website that has the addons. Thats better for users that like control over their addons

A problem would be the updating process. If the missions and/or addons change, they need to be updated on the http server aswell. If this doesnt happen automaticly, it would be waaaay to much work for server admins to make it happen. So there should be an additional tool that synchronises the missions between the two servers (by ftp or smth)

Resulting in quite a complicated feature for server admins... But I guess its worth it for the big servers.

[Dwarden 1124]

please do not 'hijack' the thread purpose related to mission download URL forwarding with addons / maps download solutions ...

purpose of this thread is to get 'extremely simple' and 'powerful' solution with 'minimum' coding into engine ...

while what you want is maybe powerful and quite simple but needs 'lot of coding and changes' ...

[Yoma 0]

I'm all for this mission download url redirect.

Whatever happens, it will lead to less bandwidth usage for mission downloads on game server and less opportunity for lagspikes due to players connecting.

Including something that would be able to download addons would also be awesome and avoid people needing 3rd party client applications like the one i'm making, but i understand it's outside the scope of what can be done in reasonable time.

What would be really really nice if you could include a means for players to be redirected to an url using default browser upon failing to load a mission due to missing addons.

So a server can define mission urls but also one "missing mods" url so people can get linked to the stuff they need.

They could then download the stuff they need manually or via a 3rd party app like mine.

Maybe you could pop up a message saying "BIS is in no way responsible for the content of the site we are trying to open. Do you want to open the "missing addons" page?

This approach would also be quite minimalistic in code changes yet be very very powerfull.

[Yoma 0]

Another potential future benefit of this feature is that someone could make a tool that checks addons a server runs combined with an online repository of mission files.

That could make "installing new missions" on a server a totally different experience.

Imagine a client tool that can

-get new missions from a public repository that use addons you have installed on your server

-link that info in your server config file

-reload your server config/restart server.

This way the server admins job of getting new nice missions "on the server" could radically change and the players game experience would be something evolving on a day to day basis.

[Dwarden 1124]

impressive after nearly 2 months

someone voted against this simple&useful feature and yet failed to post why ...

p.s. yomma i suggested several times that ArmA/ArmA 2 could benefit from 'out of box' lobby running prior the game

ideally same opensource lobby which is used by opensource RTS Spring

(simple, easy, working, contats server list browser, chat, IM,

custom content (maps,addons etc.) downloads via bittorrent, http or ftp etc.)

let me quote my old post (it may be wrong on some stuff but in general sense right)

due to fact that engines needs to compile addons (if i remember right) e.g. cpp while starting it's NOT possible to load addons with missions later

would simply mean total change in way how engine is coded (major rewrite) ...

i remember the compression of PBO was removed (it was there in OFP as form of LZH) due to way how streamed data are used and as it caused load on engine ...

BUT ... now please let the .PBO idea fade away and concetrate on same aspect but from different angle :

distribution

mission PBO files could be compressed (LZMA from 7-zip, http://www.7-zip.org/sdk.html ) on server for delivery before send to client and decompressed on client into MPmissioncache after download done

now this could be even more improved with URL forwarding (so let say arma2.info / ofpec.com holds major huge ultra fast FTP/HTTP server cache with multiple worldwide mirrors full of missions which clients will use to download from (told by server, used e.g. MD5/SHA1/SIGNature hash)

and now about mods / models / maps etc PBOs ...

to avoid rewrite of engine all what game needs is LOBBY running prior game itself and server reporting correct hashes of PBOs needed

the lobby could be used for usual stuff like server listing,chatting and !!! stuff downloading prior joining server + correct mods usage (thanks to file hashes it prevents duplicates in cache or using same name and different content etc) ...

if You want to understood what i mean i suggest You check RTS open source Spring

http://spring.clan-sy.com/

they use own lobby system

http://trac.springlobby.info/

http://spring.clan-sy.com/websvn....ient%2F

they even have 'module' plugin which uses allows use of Bittorrent (and optional HTTP) to download/upload content

http://trac.caspring.org/wiki/sd

ofcourse this lobby must be integral part of game since day zero

what i'm trying to say there are very effective routes w/o need to overhaul way how engine works and rewrite whole engine

[Yoma 0]

p.s. yomma i suggested several times that ArmA/ArmA 2 could benefit from 'out of box' lobby running prior the game

Well i totally agree. But i do understand the developers wanting to focus on the game first and for all.

Actually BIS should make something like the last version of my tool and deploy it out of the box, but better ;-), with full clan support functionality etc.

Anyway i'll do my best to provide *something* if that isn't the case. I know it won't be the best, but there's no harm in trying...

[Alex72 1]

Good idea Yoma. Would love to see a tool like yours out of the box. Would make life so easy for everyone.

Alex.

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

Content deleted, due to wrong thread discussion.

Edited April 12, 2009 by SWAT_BigBear
suggestion to complex

[Dwarden 1124]

please don't bring MOD / MAP install / downloads discussion into this thread ...

make new one and don't clutter it with too complex demands ...

this thread is for mission downloads URL forward (http/ftp ...) instead of direct download from game server ...

i mean it's so hard to understood (after i explained it like 4 times ?) ...

mission URI-forwarding&download is simple easy task to add into engine while mods/maps mean either change the engine too much or add new lobby sw ...

[Crowe 0]

Hi Dwarden,

you mentioned a good idea.

I see 2 little Problems with this system:

• When the webserver is down, or delivers a corrupted mission file
  
• When the mission on arma server is different from the webserver file
  

Edited April 12, 2009 by Crowe

[Dwarden 1124]

Hi Dwarden,

you mentioned a good idea.

I see 2 little Problems with this system:

• When the webserver is down, or delivers a corrupted mission file
  
• When the mission on arma server is different from the webserver file
  

these are no problem at all and i already covered and explained this :

1. when webserver is down the URI download code return 'error' and fallback to download from server

already existing code

2. when mission differs then the code again fallback to re-download from server (it's already now present if you have mission file name abc.pbo and join server with abc.pbo yet different content it overwrites the first one inside the MPmissioncache)

already existing code

problem solved ... we keep rolling over

[Crowe 0]

So bi devs are already implementing it?

btw. What will happen when you forward a URL like http://127.0.0.1 ??

The clients will fall back and download the mission from the armaserver i guess?

Edited April 12, 2009 by Crowe

[Dwarden 1124]

So bi devs are already implementing it?

Great :)

no, this suggestion / feature request covers the missing part of URL forward download but the code to 'resolve' your described issues is already present (just for other purpose)

[S!fkaIaC 10]

these are no problem at all and i already covered and explained this :

1. when webserver is down the URI download code return 'error' and fallback to download from server

already existing code

2. when mission differs then the code again fallback to re-download from server (it's already now present if you have mission file name abc.pbo and join server with abc.pbo yet different content it overwrites the first one inside the MPmissioncache)

already existing code

problem solved ... we keep rolling over

Does the existing functionality supporting also load sharing mechanisms?

e.g.:

We have Gameserver GS + FTP1 + FTP2 + FTP3

Request # 1 should be answered with URLs of

FTP1-FTP2-FTP3-GS

#2 with

FTP2-FTP3-FTP1-GS

#3 with

FTP3-FTP1-FTP2-GS

...and so on and the client should be able to go in consecutive order through the list and making a defined amount of attempt(s) to grab the requested content there.

Another requirement is a constant sync of the hashs of all FTPs and the GS.

If on files differs from the GS, the releted IP/URL should be taken from the round-robin list.

[Dwarden 1124]

it would be enough to offer one URI to forward than none if the URL forward fail the game can easily fallback to obtain mission files directly from game server ...

ofcourse

it would be nice to have option to

e.g. provide primaryURLforward and secondaryURLforward locations ...

yet stay with the KISS (keep it stupid simple) principle :)

[S!fkaIaC 10]

It is KISS, what I described is nothing else then one possible load sharing method at DNS.

[cross 1]

Sorry for OT but quickly going thru the whole thread, I lol'ed @ Dwardens efforts to make himself clear and to differentiate it from addon issue...and going nuts in the end :icon_lol:

It's a sad lol though....

Anyway...here are my points..

1- This may be a good solution for rental servers where they rent 1 CPU and 1 RAM block and 25Mbps connection from a rental co. Basically 1/4 of a server. Or for non-dedicated servers. Or dedicated servers operated from home with limited connectivity. This again a small % of MP community, I believe.

2- I dont think it is a problem for most DediServers. Nowadays most of the proper dedi servers are at least with Quad-core and 100mbps conn with 1-3TB monthly BW limit.

3-Arma1 does not fully use the available bandwidth of a 100mbps line. In a 30 person coop or domination session I've seen figures around 8-12Mbps outbound.

4-I support the idea of "mission-downloading should be separated".

Therefore my input or counter-suggestion would be

In JIP instances, where the mission has already started, ArmA client should start a background ftp/http transfer task/service upon/before connection to download the mission file from the same server's, missions folder. This should be done before harassing the Arma Server and should be thru a separate service launched for this purpose only.

This does not require any URL or anything and the process will not bring any extra-load to the Arma server/client itself.

Yet I think the biggest cause of lag due to JIP comes from the synchronization of client with the server on battlefield & soldier status

Edited April 23, 2009 by Cross

[BLSmith2112 0]

This would be a really good system.

[Dwarden 1124]

Sorry for OT but quickly going thru the whole thread, I lol'ed @ Dwardens efforts to make himself clear and to differentiate it from addon issue...and going nuts in the end :icon_lol:

It's a sad lol though....

Anyway...here are my points..

1- This may be a good solution for rental servers where they rent 1 CPU and 1 RAM block and 25Mbps connection from a rental co. Basically 1/4 of a server. Or for non-dedicated servers. Or dedicated servers operated from home with limited connectivity. This again a small % of MP community, I believe.

2- I dont think it is a problem for most DediServers. Nowadays most of the proper dedi servers are at least with Quad-core and 100mbps conn with 1-3TB monthly BW limit.

3-Arma1 does not fully use the available bandwidth of a 100mbps line. In a 30 person coop or domination session I've seen figures around 8-12Mbps outbound.

4-I support the idea of "mission-downloading should be separated".

Therefore my input or counter-suggestion would be

In JIP instances, where the mission has already started, ArmA client should start a background ftp/http transfer task/service upon/before connection to download the mission file from the same server's, missions folder. This should be done before harassing the Arma Server and should be thru a separate service launched for this purpose only.

This does not require any URL or anything and the process will not bring any extra-load to the Arma server/client itself.

Yet I think the biggest cause of lag due to JIP comes from the synchronization of client with the server on battlefield & soldier status

remember my aim is to help even these who don't have huge bw blocks, fast lines (e.g. home server owners, these who got some usable broadband and wanna play over weekend) etc...

offloading mission download by forward is simple and effective optimization ...

going nuts ? ... yeah after trying explaining it for 20th time i want see you to not reach 'nuts' state :D

[S!fkaIaC 10]

going nuts ? ... yeah after trying explaining it for 20th time i want see you to not reach 'nuts' state

well, now I understand how it works in BIS and why simple changes never become available. One skilled dev makes a good and easy to implement suggestion, the other devs commenting his approach and making other suggestions...in the end the initial dev is in the madhouse and we got a sheep addon instead of a T80