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pathetic_berserker

HiDef Tropic Isle Objects version1.2

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PLEASE NOTE This NOT a replacement for linker splits HDT_obj.pbo and is not related to Linker Splits High Def Tropical Island pack. It only replaces his fc_t.pbo released here as High Definition Tropical Island Objects

Ok, at last my first release!

This is a rework of Linker Splits 'High Def Tropic Islands Objects'. Originaly made for OFP and ported for ArmA by Linker Split. And motivated by the need for tropical plants for the upcoming Australia Island, seen  here

CHANGES

The list of changes below out line some of the changes I've made. But that doesn't cover the plant groups or masses of folige

in his pack as they are a bit dated for the new engine and the only changes made to them were to remove binarizing errors.

No p3ds have been removed or paths changed. This pack is will fully replace the original version

* Rework of all visual LODS. Basicaly laying them out similar to BIS and removing the preload LOD (LOD 10.000 was a trick used

in OFP to load the textures ahead of time and create a smoother running when up close. Can now use frequent=1)

* Rework of the GEO, FIRE, and VIEW LODs to better suit the respective tasks.

ie. Fire LOD = wooded material, View LOD = obscuring folige, and Geo LOD is weighted to allow trees to fall over

(Big trees need a BIG hit however)

*Included a Shadow 0 LOD for almost all trees and most plants and called on the 2nd or 3rd visual LOD as the shadow buffer.

If there was such a thing as unlimited time this could be taken further but what I've done is working well and I think its

better than simply using the first visual LOD. Also provides a good range of shadowing levels via the video options.

*Added various tree/bush classes in properties to many of the items

(the realy big trees did look a bit odd however with the degree of sway so left as just 'tree' )

*'keep height' is now used only on the base of big_tree1-7 and tree5 & all of tree6 and a few select ground covering plants.

So tree canopy no longer slopes with ground.

*Added tree5_flat for purposes specific to the upcoming Australia Island (no 'keep height' )

*Added tree5_nv, tree6_nv, and tree7_nv. exactly as tree5, tree6, and tree7 respectively but hanging vines have been removed

*And various other fixes that showed up in the Binarize Log

promo1.jpg

promo2.jpg

Images shown with settings high to V.high, no AA, coz it's already 1600X1050, on a dual core 8800gts

The File is binarized (with no errors) and signed at;

Rapidshare (only 90 days)

armaholic

ArmABase.de

ePrison.de

Thanks for the mirrors guys!

Post any Bugs here

Enjoy!

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Thanks a lot mate!

We plan to use them in a vegetation replacement pack for the

ACEIP.

Great to have them very much improved. notworthy.gif

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Hi, I'm interested in this addon as I love HDT but it never had the correct viewblock for it's foliage so this sounds right up my alley. However, I'm utterly confused -is this a replacement pack that I can just add into my HDT folder after deleting the old ' HDT objects' file?

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Yes, just replace the old file with the new.

What do mean by "correct viewblock" ? You refering the view geometry that blocks AI sight?

Yes, I meant the AI viewblock.

I did delete the old HDT objects and replace them with your file but the Island is now totally empty wow_o.gif

So basically I have my @HDT>addons>3 pbo's

1.HDT_Character.pbo

2.HDT_island.pbo

3.fc_t.pbo

and of course the bikeys.

Edit- I get a "HDT requires LKS Object" or something as well

as "object grass/clutter 4x4" error. Clearly i have done something wrong here biggrin_o.gif

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Oh...

I see already that there has been a little unexpected confusion.

The HDT_Obj.pbo that you replaced was part of Linker Splits High Definition Tropic Island. Untill now I didn't know it existed.

My work is a new version of linker Splits fc_t.pbo and replaces only the old fc_t.pbo

The original release thread for it you will find here

I can see now your confusion and I'm sorry to tell you that, no, it doesn't replace the HDT_obj.pbo in LS High Definition Island Pack.

I wish I had known sooner. I would have done my best to avoid the similarity in names, but as it is.....

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Thanks a lot for making this, it's a nice improvement on the old version. I like virtually everything I've noticed so far. The trees look much more natural now their foliage doesn't deform to the angle of the slope they're on, and, of course, being able to knock everything over makes the objects much more usable. Making appropriate objects sway in the wind was a nice touch.

If you're willing to make a new version, I can suggest a few things that might be worth further improvement. Jungle trees 1-4 all have some odd triangular protrusions from their trunks - they had these in the original version, so it's not something you've done, but it'd be easy enough to remove them, and worthwhile in my opinion since they're the nicest tree models. Jungle tree 2's lowest detail LOD could also do with an overhaul, since its trunk appears invisible from a distance. It'd also be good if you made 'no vine' versions of Big Tree 3, 5 and 6 (not sure if the numbers are right), since their Tarzan-style vines that sweep up to hang in the air kind of limit their usability.

Finally, there are a few issues arising from the fact that the trees can now be knocked over. The ones that have any kind of vine things hanging down vertically defy the laws of gravity once they've been smashed to the ground - their 'hanging' vines are still rigidly parallel to the tree trunk. More generally, I don't think any of the trees have been given textures for their feet, so to speak. Once knocked on its side, you can see through the bottom part of the trunk and look at its hollow insides.

Anyway, good work. wink_o.gif

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Thanks for the observations Drozdov,

I think those small triangles are meant to simulate the irregularities caused by very early branches coming off. I have thought about removing them myself but somhow didn't go through with it. I will probably leave them true to Linkers original vision unless I get a lot of feed back about them.

tree2 LODs now fixed in the event of future release.

There are no 'tarzan' vine versions of tree3, 5, 6 they are tree5, 1, and 7 respectively.

Admittidly the vines do seem a bit odd when the trees fall over, defying gravity and all, no way around it. Except to prehaps make the trees stand up to anything short of jet crashing into them. Atleast then it will be unlikey that a player will have to witness floating vines, LOL.

Dont know if trees are subject to damage selection, will look into it.

As for thier transparent feet ,noted. I will fix it should there be another release.

I was also interested to note if you felt a change in fps from the first version to the new?

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Hi Pathetic_Berserker smile_o.gif

first off, let me tell you that you've done a real great job!

I've never had the intention to upgrade this pack, cause I was planning the HDT island, which i released with a complete different vegetation smile_o.gif

And you hit the point m8, your work in enanching them is quite satisfying for me too tounge2.gif

So keep it up soldier!

Linker Spit

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I checked again, and Big Tree 3, 5 and 6 do still have 'Tarzan' vines. Here's a screenshot.

I'm not entirely sure about a change in FPS from old to new, haven't tested with FRAPS on yet. In general, though, they still cause a lot more lag than the default plants. I'll add some more detail on this later.

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@Linker Split. Thanks for the comments. I'm realy pleased that it has lived up to your expectations.

@Drazdov

I checked again, and Big Tree 3, 5 and 6 do still have 'Tarzan' vines. Here's a screenshot.

true but if look again

true, but if you look again I said

There are no 'tarzan' vine versions of tree3, 5, 6 they are tree5(sry should have read 4), 1, and 7 respectively.

Meaning that big_tree1, 2, 4, 7. are basicaly the same trees

minus the vines.

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Ah, I see. I hadn't really looked at big tree 3 and 5 closely, they are entirely the same as 1 and 4. Big tree 6 is a fair bit different to big tree 7, though - I'd noticed that before so I'd assumed the others were different. whistle.gif

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No prob Drozdov

And I hope your FPS tests work out well. I don't expect them to come out quite as well a BIS forest but my own tests have found the pack to very playable (as you may note by the FR in the first post). Especialy considering 1, they are not perfectly optimized and 2 to create a good jungle often requires a denser object placment than the typical BIS forest.

Of course it takes a bit of trial and error getting the desity right but if you feel your having trouble I'll post a few tips.

PS'

I just did a test on my second machine, old dell 8400, 3gh, 1g ram, 7900gt, 1200 x 1024, AA disabled, object detail normal, everything else on low and stood exactly at the positions shown in the frst post (on Australia island)

comparing the firts pic I was getting 30 frames, the second 40 frames,

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Fantastic effort Pafetik, I know how long you have been working on this.

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Ok, I've done a bit of FPS testing. First of all, my PC specs:

E6400 Core 2 Duo

2 GB 667MHz DDR2 RAM

7900 GTO 512mb graphics

160gb HD with 12gb free

For the test, I used the tropical Sahrani mod I've been working on which replaces the default BIS trees with these ones. I mainly tested it at two sites - in the forest around the log camp in northeastern Sahrani, and standing on Punto Morton (northwestern Sahrani, overlooking the Mato Grosso on one side and a bunch of smaller forests on the other).

The first site, at the log camp, is essentially a single-model tree forest, originally made up of Les_Singlestrom trees, which in my mod have been replaced by Big Jungle Tree 7 - essentially it's a fairly dense forest made up of this model. On my normal ArmA settings (1024x768, visibility 6000, Terrain/Anisoptric/Anti-Aliasing normal, Shadows high, objects/textures very high, shading and post-pro high), this forest is unplayable. Walking through the trees gives an FPS average of about 7, looking at the forest from a higher point makes the FPS drop even lower. I changed the settings to the 'Normal' preset (everything normal, postpro/aa/aniso low, vis 1200). Now, walking through the forest gave an acceptable frame rate that ranged from 15-20 and never really stuttered - this is about the same as walking through a BIS forest at my original high quality settings. However, viewing the forest from a high point, or going outside the forest so that a lot of trees were displayed on the screen, caused the FPS to drop to around 12.

With BIS trees, my original higher quality settings give a framerate of around 15-18 when walking in the forest. Viewing the forest from a height gave a higher framerate of around 17-18, and viewing a large amount of trees from a medium distance, say, a forest clearing, resulted in a higher FPS of around 20. The 'normal' preset settings show the same pattern, FPS being around 20 walking through the forest and about 28 when viewing the forest.

The second test site, around Punto Morton, has a bit more diversity of tree models. The Mato Grosso forest is quite dense and comprised of Big Jungle Tree 1 and 4 models (replacing the Les/Str Buk models), while the other various forests to the east of Punto Morton are mostly made up from Big Jungle Tree 7 and Jungle Tree 3 (replacing the large Smrk models), Palm 9 (replacing the small Smrk) and a few Palm 11 (replacing the Briza model). These forests are mostly small and less dense.

Anyway, with my original higher quality settings, looking east from Punto Morton (showing a large amount of small forests) gave a very low FPS of around 5, while looking west down to the Mato Grosso gave a slightly higher average of around 6. Walking around gave some interesting results - I found that inside Mato Grosso was almost playable, with an average FPS of 15, but it would drop significantly whenever my view wasn't mostly blocked by trees close to me and I was able to see a lot of trees from medium-long range distance. In the forests to the east, the FPS difference was even greater depending on what was in my 'background' view, so to speak. If I was looking to the east, FPS would drop unplayably low because it was loading all the trees from the various forests in the background whenever my view of them wasn't totally blocked. Looking back west, the background was only of the mountainside, so walking through sparser clumps of forest I was getting a pretty good FPS average of over 20. Bumping the settings down to normal preset showed more or less what you'd expect and confirmed the same pattern - background trees are more important in causing lag than foreground trees.

Playing the same area with the BIS trees didn't entirely show a reverse pattern, but the difference was still big. In short, their trees cause more FPS lag when they're close to you than when they're further away. It's more evident in the medium range view - looking at the Mato Grosso in its entirety from above didn't cause any problems (FPS about 28), but looking at a shitload of pine forests to the east resulted in an FPS of around 18-20.

My conclusions after all this are that the HDT trees (at least the big ones which were the main ones I tested) could do with some optimisation before they're mid-level PC friendly. I've an idea how this can be done - if you look at the BIS trees in Oxygen, they're all mostly 2D objects in their lowest detail LOD. From a distance, you're basically looking at a texture painted onto a flat plane, but you'd never really know it in game. Because the new HDT objects are binarized, I can't have a look at them to see how the LODs are done now, but it looks to me as if each LOD is still a trimmed down version of the last - still fully 3D. Of course, it'd require a bit of work to do this. I'm eager to have a go at helping, although I'm still finding my feet with Oxygen and 3D modelling.

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I've found the best way of making billboards for low lods of trees are 2d viewport screengrabs in a 3d app, if you guys want a hand with that just pm me i'd be happy to help out.

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@Drozdov

first of all can I make a few suggestions about your settings.

A setting of visability 6000 is very high. I know of no-one who would use this setting except from an aircraft point of view. In fact even then about 3-4000 is about all you need to cover any detail you will see realisticly from the air. If your actualy in the forest then its down to a couple of hundred meters at best. I'd look at setting to 2500-4000 depending on your personal preferences

You didn't mention what sort of screen you were runing but if its half decent you may find that running the game at your screens native resolution and turning AA off may produce some improvments. There is a certain economy that comes from running the game at your screens native resolution (screens max res). Which means that, if you have a decent screen (I think 1200x1024 or over) you may as well turn AA off and run at your screens max res with AA off as it shows little gain at the expense of GPU power. (the mickey mouse explanation is that your GPU has to calculate a reduction, then calculate an improvement that it could have done with the first calculation)

post pro is a proccess hog that often makes things look even more unrealistic. I'd go low especialy with your Gcard But thats ultimately a personal preference

Having a rig that is somewhere in between my two I'd say

your asking a lot of a 7900 card but again thats entirely up to you.

Lastly, its a shame that we dont have a better way of transforming Sahrani. I think the biggest issue here is that your only option is a hex editor. BIS forests are comprised of a select group of plants per forest. Wich makes it difficult to both represent the large range of plantlife in a tropical forest and also creates limitations when using particular trees wich may drain the system resources.

I hope you find a away around your problems.

Got to go now but when I come back I will post about a few methods i employed to get good forests on custom islands where exact placment is not limited by having to use a hex editor

BTW thanks for the feed back

@mike bart. thanks for the tip It could be something woth employing for the big_trees# so I will look into as a possibility for the next release

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It would be nice if you are allowed and willing to release the MLOD.

After all a simple yet strong FPS tweak is to remove the 1st LOD

with the highest poly count.

So one could easily make a 2nd mid range PC pack this way.

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@Q I'm not sure that just removing the 1st resolution LOD will quite do it.

Looking at the BIS models subsequent lods often use a completly different set of textures to save on processing power. and its my opinion that this is where these plants cant match BIS. As it is the highest poly lod is on par with the lowest of the BIS trees and has been noved to 0.000 instead of 1.000.

And it also has to be taken into account what its meant by 'mid range pc', The graphics card in my 'top' computor has been succeeded by the 9000 series and the latest X200 series already. My other computor is 5 years old with a graphics card up-grade, yet with the right settings still gives good playable F.rates

How may people are likely to benifit by either removing the 1st LOD or providing more texturing and mapping at what could be the cost of the original authors vision. At the end of the day a 1st lod change will simply force a reduced quality on people who refuse to use video setting that better suit thier card.

The settings I quoted earlier for my machines reflect how they are always set. I havn't had to change them to suit this plant pack and though they may seem a little low for my specs. Its simply that I believe these settings give the best all round result in all circumstances. Its foolish to complain about fps when in urban combat with 50 mp players when your setting actualy suit desert armoured warfare.

At any rate, I'm happy to support MLODS to any who prove they have Linker Splits OK.

PS. God my typing suks today. Its so damn hot in my part of the world the only thing I should be doing is eating Wasabi peas and drinking beer.

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