One question that MANY fans care about.

[Yoshama 0]

extreme pvp in close quarters is gay...

i remember an ofp map that all it was was this little 100 m by 100m map that wasted the entire game engine!

you only got 2 weapons and the map was a piece of $@!^

arma pvp is much more special, better, sophisticated. you final need to think in a game more than mouse skill!

arma is not a type of game you run and gun like all the other clone games out there, it is its own style of game and should be at the forefront of its own style of game play that should not be nerfed.

i want strategy along with most of the other fans, not another quake or unreal tournament!

[sparks50 0]

Q, A little request from me, please do not keep hitting enter after every small sentence, your post looks like a EMO poem from high school and is a pain to read.

A working template for pvp to come in the box isn't too much to ask for. Though I am not entirely sold on the idea that this was the sole thing that stopped Arma from selling 2 millions.

[Yoshama 0]

this game is not about selling as much as cod or bf2 by whoring for players with short attention spans but pleasing the true fans, and creating a game with a simulation combat emphasis!

there are enough clones of cod, bf, cs, and other nameless titles that get old fast!

arma is a true game where you think plan and strategery to the max

[Second 0]

this game is not about selling as much as cod or bf2 by whoring for players with short attention spans but pleasing the true fans, and creating a game with a simulation combat emphasis!

there are enough clones of cod, bf, cs, and other nameless titles that get old fast!

arma is a true game where you think plan and strategery to the max

LOL ... ROFL ... Super ROFL

Nice sarcasm. Like that 'getting old fast' thing there.

[.kju 3239]

@Sparks

Quote[/b] ]You should keep your lines as short as possible; period.

Why? Well, have you ever read a newspaper? Most likely yes. How

do they write their articles? One big block going from the left page

margin to the right one? No. But why do some people here insist

on writing source code like this??? Newspapers write articles in

very short columns. Why? Because it is much easier to read. Your

eyes can quickly jump from left to right and then to the next row,

without ever losing focus.

Text Columns: How Long is Too Long?

Is the 80 character line limit still relevant?

[CyDoN 0]

I see what the problem is. There is a general hostility from coop players towards the PvP community of ArmA. They for some reason try to prove that ArmA is not suited for this type of gameplay. The thing is that they keep (mindlessly) say that ArmA does need official support for PvP. The point of this post is to gather THOSE who care about PvP not those who don't want PvP in the game for some reason I can't really think of, they think that coop,warefare will be put aside?

Most of you who play coop etc you have no problem, ArmA had almost everything you wanted. I don't get why you want to discourage people from playing the game. Thats racist in a way, you underestimate people that like differnt type of gamplay from you calling them  "run'n'gunners", "immature" and other names  with a sinking and sarcastic tone, to prove youselves your superiortiy over them (maybe becase you might have suffered in other games by the word noob? ).

The point is that people who like coop (cause again is a matter of taste) can find ALL those elements they want in ArmA (great editor, scripting etc).

So the problem is: what do we do about the other half of players of ArmA and people who might want to try the game?

Those who don't care learning how to make maps, don't care about addons since in tournamets you all have to play with the same product, don't care about Warefare and don't care about coop and simulating combat operations (to all those who havent been to army and play only a games, well the game is FAR FAR away from reality).

The answer "Go play CoD and BF" is really annoying and demotes the level of the conversation. To make this post and having ALL those clans and organizations that make cups/tournaments (hundreds of players not say thousands) that still prefer ArmA gives the answear.

Some people do not know what "Pro PvP" or just competitve PvP is well here is a small list of things:

1. PvP is not about "pwning" random people in public servers as some of you said.

 

PvP is organized team play between clans-teams or whatever.

2. PvP is not meant to be close quarters battles (hexhencastel etc)

C&H is the ideal thing, NOONE of you has tryeied the ESL or ECL maps which was the greatest example of how ArmA can go for "pro pvp". ArmA is the only FPS game that strategy and skills together can make the differance unlike CS and other FPSs where skill has the major role.

3. Deathmatch PvP is for Quake etc. ArmA needs more sophisticated type of games like C&H or Hold Location etc.

4. I find really silly the coop player phrase "you want to play PvP go play deathmatch in CoD or BF" this shows that you have NEVER tried any actual tournamet/ladder/league PvP map.

5. PvP does not include AI at all. PvP that includes AI is another type of gameplay and I think its called TvsT here in the forums.

6. The fact that ArmA can be shaped and take many forms does not mean that NOT having official support will make it better (thats the point make the game better).

7. Ready and TESTED (no bugs, balanced etc) maps give a serious boost in contrast to other games (life OFP2) who keep their funs and sell more copies.

8. A player that wants competitve PvP will NEVER in the world play coop, its just boring for him.

9. Whoever doesn't want competition can just not play this kind of missions simple as that.

I don't get whats for ALL this hostility against this kind of gameplay. Coop players have whate they need. It's like you don't want PvPers in the community. I can't explain what you don't want BIS to make 5-10 maps with the game and give them in one box?? Whats the problem with that.

P.S. Many people don't read what others say theyjust read the title and post things in random lol  

[dm 9]

I see what the problem is. There is a general hostility from coop players towards the PvP community of ArmA.

Holy hell... Am I getting old, or is this argument really coming up again?

They for some reason try to prove that ArmA is not suited for this type of gameplay.

For the most part, they seem against turning it into another CoD, BF or CS clone...

The thing is that they keep (mindlessly) say that ArmA does need official support for PvP.

Which it doesnt, the ONLY "game mode" AmrA has any official support for is Warfare.

The point of this post is to gather THOSE who care about PvP not those who don't want PvP in the game for some reason I can't really think of, they think that coop,warefare will be put aside?

Since you can have more than one player in a network scenario, you can never get rid of the PvP aspect.

Most of you who play coop etc you have no problem, ArmA had almost everything you wanted. I don't get why you want to discourage people from playing the game. Thats racist in a way, you underestimate people that like differnt type of gamplay from you calling them  "run'n'gunners", "immature" and other names  with a sinking and sarcastic tone, to prove youselves your superiortiy over them (maybe becase you might have suffered in other games by the word noob? ).

I think I may have lost a few IQ points reading that, what are you, 12? Racist? Superior? Blaming people for reacting badly to being called crap, then suggesting that you'd call them crap anyway (which seems to be a common theme in your pro PvP posts)

Everything posted here in a "negative" sense is angled towards preventing ArmA2 from becoming another BF/CoD/CS clone. I mean come on, all the pro PvP posts are about getting rid of the floating zone, adding bunny hop/jump, limiting view distance to 200m, etc etc etc. Fine, you have your little bunnyhop-tastic 200m box of death, I'll just lob hellfires into it from a safe 8km away. Do you not see how forcing the game to have those settings hardcoded is a step backwards? ESPECIALLY when it is ALL possible now. As has been said over and over and over, its up to the mission maker.

The point is that people who like coop (cause again is a matter of taste) can find ALL those elements they want in ArmA (great editor, scripting etc).

And THE point is, that same editor and scripting can be used to create EPIC PvP maps. You just have to put the effort in.

So the problem is: what do we do about the other half of players of ArmA and people who might want to try the game?

Put some effort in and make some PvP missions instead of expecting to be spoon fed them on a silver platter? Also, are you suggesting that everyone who is new to ArmA and wants to try it is looking for PvP? Thats a big reach if you ask me...

Those who don't care learning how to make maps

Have to play the missions that other people make "for" them...

don't care about addons since in tournamets you all have to play with the same product

And a lot of missions dont use addons, and hey, if you made them yourself you could both ensure that the missions dont use addons AND be the "saviour" of the seemingly un-saveable PvP community.

The answer "Go play CoD and BF" is really annoying and demotes the level of the conversation. To make this post and having ALL those clans and organizations that make cups/tournaments (hundreds of players not say thousands) that still prefer ArmA gives the answear.

People only say that because those games have exactly what you're looking for. Pre-packaged, non-sandbox PvP straight out of the install. OFP and ArmA have ALWAYS (and hopefully will always) require a little extra effort.

6. The fact that ArmA can be shaped and take many forms does not mean that NOT having official support will make it better (thats the point make the game better).

7. Ready and TESTED (no bugs, balanced etc) maps give a serious boost in contrast to other games (life OFP2) who keep their funs and sell more copies.

And lo, were back to the fact that the only regularly-supported official mission is warfare. All the other co-op missions are made by players and supported by players. Why is it so hard for the PvP'ers to do the same?

I don't get whats for ALL this hostility against this kind of gameplay. Coop players have whate they need. It's like you don't want PvPers in the community. I can't explain what you don't want BIS to make 5-10 maps with the game and give them in one box?? Whats the problem with that.

What is not wanted is the "dumbing down" of the game to suit the demands of the PvP'ers. 200m view distances, no floating zone (which can be reduced to nil in the options btw), running on rails so as to make 100m+ headshots on the move, tiny play boxes, etc etc. Why force the removal of all that makes ArmA awesome just to please the PvP'ers?

Its funny, you're so set on making the game perfect for the PvP'ers, that you cant see how you would ruin it for everyone else...

[whisper 0]

I'm not hostile to PvP in any way, I play twitch games in fact more than I play ArmA

I have a problem when the suggestion to make PvP scene successfull is "to reduce the view distance to 200m". It's not OP suggestion, but you got to agree that doing so would be kind of a waste of what the ArmA2 engine can bring compared to other titles.

I have a "problem" (not really, just that I don't see the real usefullness) with suggesting that "official PvP maps" will give any boost to PvP scene of ArmA2.

Again, I've never seen BI CTF played in comp in OFP. In fact, I don't think I've played them online bare once or twice.

Even more, Bohemia Interactive do not really do good PvP maps. Custom made ones are far better, and, again, seeing how we'll have a bunch of experienced mapmakers, and how easy it is to play a custom map, there is no gain in BI making "official" PvP maps.

Tbh, BI do put official maps in their game, be it OFP or ArmA, they even provide templates for map makers.

Have you ever played BI PvP maps? I didn't. The only one I played was ArmA demo CTF.

[.kju 3239]

Good job DM

Keep on derailing the thread with your stories.

No one in here wants to dump down ArmA.

Its only you fanatics trying to imply that.

Quote[/b] ]“If you repeat a lie a thousand times, it becomes the truthâ€

George Orwell

[[aps]gnat 28]

Everything posted here in a "negative" sense is angled towards preventing ArmA2 from becoming another BF/CoD/CS clone. I mean come on, all the pro PvP posts are about getting rid of the floating zone, adding bunny hop/jump, limiting view distance to 200m, etc etc etc. Fine, you have your little bunnyhop-tastic 200m box of death, I'll just lob hellfires into it from a safe 8km away. Do you not see how forcing the game to have those settings hardcoded is a step backwards? ESPECIALLY when it is ALL possible now. As has been said over and over and over, its up to the mission maker.

LOL .. yes, exactly.

There is a general hostility from coop players towards the PvP community of ArmA.

Ummm ... no, I actually don't like Coop that much. I much prefer a good CTF or a cool C&H with lots of vehicles & weapons, or even better a CTI, where I tend to not be a big "team" player, more of a loner, slowly nibbling away at a town of AI.

You are generalizing about people again.

I very much enjoy the variety of OFP and ArmA.

At last count I had collected something like 4,500 different missions for OFP.

[CyDoN 0]

Find one post of me that I tak about view distance etc. Please make me this favour.

For the most part, they seem against turning it into another CoD, BF or CS clone...

Turning it in what?? Does this has any logic?

Which it doesnt, the ONLY "game mode" AmrA has any official support for is Warfare.

Yes that's what I mean apart from Warefare there is no other support.

Since you can have more than one player in a network scenario, you can never get rid of the PvP aspect.

Yes but there are no official PvP maps.

I think I may have lost a few IQ points reading that, what are you, 12? Racist? Superior? Blaming people for reacting badly to being called crap, then suggesting that you'd call them crap anyway (which seems to be a common theme in your pro PvP posts)

UM where did I do that Mr.DM        

the "Pro Theame" is just a word to show that some people like competition.

Everything posted here in a "negative" sense is angled towards preventing ArmA2 from becoming another BF/CoD/CS clone. I mean come on, all the pro PvP posts are about getting rid of the floating zone, adding bunny hop/jump, limiting view distance to 200m, etc etc etc. Fine, you have your little bunnyhop-tastic 200m box of death, I'll just lob hellfires into it from a safe 8km away. Do you not see how forcing the game to have those settings hardcoded is a step backwards? ESPECIALLY when it is ALL possible now. As has been said over and over and over, its up to the mission maker.

Who talked about 200m view distance? Floating zone yes for me is annoying others that play with other system apart from mouse and keyboard might find it usefull. You read my post??? I have been saying that I like ArmA and the only thing that this game has from being great is maps and you come and tell me that the gameplayed has to be changed??? Did you even read my post? Do you understand the basics of communication

And THE point is, that same editor and scripting can be used to create EPIC PvP maps. You just have to put the effort in.

That some people do not care to even bother use. And still if there are those map not in the box people might get bored with the game in the first month.

who is new to ArmA and wants to try it is looking for PvP? Thats a big reach if you ask me...

What do you mean? The first thing that people who like PvP is try this, not the campaign/ediotr/single maps. They will try the MP and its not hard to learn playing a game as long as there other people ot play with you.

Have to play the missions that other people make "for" them...

Thats the point, to have maps from the first day the game it is released.

And a lot of missions dont use addons, and hey, if you made them yourself you could both ensure that the missions dont use addons AND be the "saviour" of the seemingly un-saveable PvP community.

Don't you see it. You are the hostile and your attitude is aggresive for no reason. YOU can play what you want with this game which might be Evolution or whatever I and many others can't.

People only say that because those games have exactly what you're looking for. Pre-packaged, non-sandbox PvP straight out of the install. OFP and ArmA have ALWAYS (and hopefully will always) require a little extra effort.

Extra effort? Why?

What is not wanted is the "dumbing down" of the game to suit the demands of the PvP'ers. 200m view distances, no floating zone (which can be reduced to nil in the options btw), running on rails so as to make 100m+ headshots on the move, tiny play boxes, etc etc. Why force the removal of all that makes ArmA awesome just to please the PvP'ers?

Where in my post do you find ANY of those you say above, show me where? I don't you floating zone as I told you above but thats my choice.

quote=DM,Jan. 09 2009,10:38]Its funny, you're so set on making the game perfect for the PvP'ers, that you cant see how you would ruin it for everyone else...

Its funny how you read my post and your imagination made up sooo many things

You still don't get the point THE ONLY F*** IDEA OF THE POST IS TO HAVE SOME MP MAPS IN 5VS5 MODE NOT TO CHANGE ANYTHING ELSE DID YOU READ THE POSTS??? OR YOU MAKE UP THINGS???

Still I don't get, why you don't want PvP maps in ArmA2 I really can't get it.

[lwlooz 0]

Well actually, quite a number of people want to dumb the game down.

They all have the same misunderstanding Cydon does.

They come here from your standard FPS game , which all can be quite fun by the way and are extremly puzzled or ignore that BIS did quite a number of things differently with OFP.

I don't really need to repeat what it was , it has been cited quite often , in this thread too , but freedom of choice,complexity,incentives for creativity and large scale could be the generalized buzz words.

I am not an avid Coop player as well by the way, I think shooting a bunch of static AI is a boring as hell , I guess I fit the TvT type according to some definitions. I would describe myself as Wargamer who likes to use this game for Tactical Warfare Scenarios tho.

I tell you this Cydon , just to point out AGAIN that if you or me want my preferred mission type to be played , one has to do it yourself. They are quite a number of reasons BIS is never going to do something you like 100% , the major one being that this community being so diversified you can't please everyone.

So you need to learn how to , and BIS made it simple as hell to do so.

Unless you understand this difference with this engine/game , you will always face hostility or misunderstanding.

P.S: Infact there are even quite a number of scripting commands which are mainly designed to help make PvP missions possible. So how you can say BIS doesn't support that kind of PvP is beyond me. If you were to complain about broken animation transitions( note: I never want 0 ms 'fluid' animations tho) I would get that. If you were to suggest engine changes so you can make you preferred type of mission better fine (within keeping with the general design principles of OFP of course,mentioned above,I am talking extra scripting commands here for example,or being able to carry 2 flags for whatever purpose) , but describing the lack of PvP missions by BIS as the downfall of ArmA2 is quite ridiculous,sorry.

[paragraphic l 2]

@CyDoN: Just to make sure I understand you're request 100%;

- do you want missions that are designed to fit 5vs5 battles?

or

- do you want an island designed so it can host the above battles in a perfect way?

if it's the second request I would understand your request a bit more, but as stated many times, missions are easy to make and the ones that where so great in OFP-times are easily to port over and fit on the new island.

either way, both request would recuire some kind of example from you about how you would like to see this being done.

what is it that keeps you from having this in ArmA for example, what would allready be possible in ArmA but isn't done yet and would you like to be done by BIS on release?

As I see it, ArmA just isn't the game for 5 vs 5 battles, I would understand if you'd say 5 SF players to infiltrate a base with 15 regular players. Or some kind of hunter scenario, but having to defend a base/hill/town with 5 men against 5 men, that really doesn't seem to be what ArmA is made for if you can have fights at least 10 times bigger.

[dm 9]

I was going to make a big ole wordy quote again, but I cba (seems to be another common theme...)

What I will say is this;

Even tho its identified that the only "game type" that has any on going support from BIS is Warfare, PvP gaming is suffering the most?

This can only be for one reason, and you identify it yourself: the PvP players are too lazy (theres the theme, tho I will clarify - the most vocal PvP players are too lazy) to:

Either get stuck into the editor and make a few missions themselves (which is an obtuse generalisation, since I've seen a couple of threads today with missions aimed explicitally at PvP)

Or, even worse, have a server admin competent enough to load a few custom missions onto the server.

Its been said over and over, this engine/game is all about options unlike an out of the box server like CoD, BF or CS, where you have a set number of maps in rotation, with ArmA you have 2 terrains which you can create any number of missions on. Its limited only by your imagination and the amount of effort you're willing to put in...

A few quoty-points I will make:

Quote[/b] ]Who talked about 200m view distance?... ...Did you even read my post? Do you understand the basics of communication

Now who's not reading the thread?

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]And a lot of missions dont use addons, and hey, if you made them yourself you could both ensure that the missions dont use addons AND be the "saviour" of the seemingly un-saveable PvP community.

Don't you see it. You are the hostile and your attitude is aggresive for no reason. YOU can play what you want with this game which might be Evolution or whatever I and many others can't.

I fail to see the hostility? I merely suggested that you might use the editor to make some missions? I guess I'm the bad guy for suggesting that you put a bit of effort into anything you do?

Quote[/b] ]Extra effort? Why?

And theres the proof. Clearly you were not brought up with the idea of "the more you put in, the more you get out".

Life does not serve things up for you on a silver platter, why should games be any different?

I'd much rather have ArmA, which I can do anything I want in, than a game where I'm restricted to the standard missions/maps.

Quote[/b] ]Still I don't get, why you don't want PvP maps in ArmA2 I really can't get it.

If you can find anywhere on this whole forum where I state I dont want PvP maps included in ArmA as standard, then I'll quite happily have the mods ban me.

Since I'm confident that I have never claimed such things, I might refer you back to your own point of "zomg, dont you ever read the posts!!1!1!!11!"

Also, USING ALL CAPS AND LOTS OF   SMILIES IS NOT HELPFUL TO GETTING YOUR POINT ACROSS IN A MATURE FASHION, which is the "theme" I was refering to in my previous post - just look at any one of your posts and it always trails off in an fps-doug asplosion (bonus points for getting the reference there) of shouting and !!!1!!1's

@ Q

When did you get so cynical?

[NoRailgunner 0]

Simple solution - make some good missions that you like and dont die waiting for it.

Isnt there anyone in those leagues who can make "official ArmA league missions"? Why you cant discuss and develop it there? Imho its a good solution to find out what fits and what not. Another part is that BIS canot please all pvp players - guess that you will come back and cry if those mission doesnt fit to your visions. Ask here if someone is still playing official ArmA mp missions.

Maybe you should describe it more how you like to play in ArmA2 pvp missions and make some examples/concepts. Developers might be gods but irl they dont know everything.  

[Pulverizer 1]

Maybe you should describe it more how you like to play in ArmA2 pvp missions and make some examples/concepts. Developers might be gods but irl they dont know everything.  

Read the OP:

Quote[/b] ]Ofp and ArmA need some maps in order to promote the PvP part of the game (warefare is totaly no PvP). A PvP mode that will introduce the gameplay of Battlefield2 with the mix of the realism of ArmA.

From what I understand, he wants missions like BF2's primary mode of play (a kind of C&H). I guess BIS could afford a few copies of BF2 to see how it works and then do that in ArmA2.

[whisper 0]

Maybe you should describe it more how you like to play in ArmA2 pvp missions and make some examples/concepts. Developers might be gods but irl they dont know everything.  

Read the OP:

Quote[/b] ]Ofp and ArmA need some maps in order to promote the PvP part of the game (warefare is totaly no PvP). A PvP mode that will introduce the gameplay of Battlefield2 with the mix of the realism of ArmA.

From what I understand, he wants missions like BF2's primary mode of play (a kind of C&H). I guess BIS could afford a few copies of BF2 to see how it works and then do that in ArmA2.

BF adapation has already been made in OFP, called Battlefield1985, it evolved in map called Berzerk under ArmA.

Really, I don't get it.

It was not needed in OFP to have a successfull PvP scene.

Why oh why should it suddenly be needed for ArmA2? Because ArmA PvP failed for completely unrelated reasons? I fail to see the logic.

[eenter 0]

Maybe by "MANY fans" he ment those from casual fpses who find ArmA too hard cause http://stats.swec.se/game/statistics clearly shows the PvP "popularity".

[whisper 0]

Yes, because downplaying PvP players is the way to go to understand and answer to their requests ....

This PvP bashing is really getting old.

When you don't know what and who you're talking about, you better simply shut it up.

[paragraphic l 2]

Maybe by "MANY fans" he ment those from casual fpses who find ArmA too hard cause http://stats.swec.se/game/statistics clearly shows the PvP "popularity".

As I see it, and I'm most probably wrong, but on that site you see that the PvP/TvT community is as strong as the Co-op community is. Both in hours as in games.

#Mode Games Player Time

1 COOP    37224 159:55:51

2 CTI       6964     84:57:36

3 HOLD      1600   40:55:40

4 TEAM     3083     39:28:10

5 CTF       2386     08:42:58

6 C&H       4483   03:01:50

7 DM        1752     01:05:37

8 SC          372     00:16:43

9 FF          439     00:01:06

Co-op

        game= 37224

        time= 159:55:51

PvP (= the rest(?))

       game= 21079

       time+/-=178:00:00

[Pulverizer 1]

BF adapation has already been made in OFP, called Battlefield1985, it evolved in map called Berzerk under ArmA.

Yup. I mentioned that in reply #1.

Berzerk is no good though. It must be official, made by BIS, delivered in the box and probably also really, really good to meet the standards for professional league play.

[whisper 0]

BF adapation has already been made in OFP, called Battlefield1985, it evolved in map called Berzerk under ArmA.

Yup. I mentioned that in reply #1.

Berzerk is no good though. It must be official, made by BIS, delivered in the box and probably also really, really good to meet the standards for professional league play.

Why MUST IT BE? :O

Knowing BI record for PvP map, the last thing I want is them doing it.

OTOH, I'd rather have them polish the animations to have them as fluid as possible, because THIS is what killed ArmA PvP, not the lack of "official PvP missions".

[EDcase 87]

What's the big problem with everyone saying ArmA should be this or that....

The reason why ArmA is better than all other combat games is because of its versatility.

You can have large scale warfare or CQB with Co-Op or PvP...

BIS has included some Co-Op and PvP missions that may not appeal to all but it gives an idea of whats possible.  BIS's job is to make ArmA/II as good and stable as possible not create missions.

THATS WHY THERE'S A MISSION EDITOR!!!

As with OFP its the community that creates content that suits everyone.

[max power 21]

What the fucking hell happened here?

Cydon wants better pvp maps in ArmA out of the box and all of a sudden, out of nowhere comes this shit storm about hard coded bunny hopping. I have never seen such a parade of abject nonsense.

ArmA 2 needs better maps of all kinds out of the box. Noone plays the default ArmA maps. All of the popular maps are user generated. That Capture the Flag map in the demo was pretty good, though- a little one sided but pretty good. As far as I'm concerned it was the best map out of the three that were included.

I support a movement for better missions in general, even if it means having fewer in number at first.

[CyDoN 0]

ArmA 2 needs better maps of all kinds out of the box.

At last someone who has some basic communication skills.