bug with silenced weapons

[vilas 473]

i think i had no such bug before 1.14, so specially before A2 please take it under mind:

AI reacts and knows where are person using silenced weapons

example:

i made mission, 1 soldiers guards canon, second soldier 50 meters away guards machinegun, 2 soldiers 50meters away are standing

i am using BIS M4SD or BIS MP5SD

when i shoot in the air noone reacts - okay,like it should to be

i am killing first man, he falls  and all other are under danger, they start to aim at me etc.

stupid

in OFP such thing never happened

how can we do spec-ops missions if AI knows that i shot another AI 60 meters away

i was using BIS weapons, not mine, mission was made on BIS units, to be replaced by mod units later, but i was very surprised when man 50 meters away reacted and turned into me

i remember old Arma error when AI knew where is man using satchel charges, but now seems we have another problem

edit:

by the way - error with boats unloading transport many meters from beach , which was fixed in 1.08, is still present again

[i0n0s 0]

As soon as you hit an AI, he automatic knows your position. And since the other guy is in the same group, he knows it too.

Really annoying, especially with "detected by" trigger since they go off when you kill one unit.

[vilas 473]

they are in the same group

4 soldiers in port

one - artillery crewman holds howizter

second - holds mgun

3 and 4 stands and talking, 5th is guaring entrance to the port

mission is - kill canon crew, prepare port for your desant

impossible :/

first - they are noticed when man 50 meters away is killed, matter is "do job silent, cause alarm will call soviet tanks and they will kill 4 incoming PBRs"

second - boat gets out 50 meters from beach, they swim and lost all weapons

such easy mission in OFP was not a problem, here IMPOSSIBLE

[Lou Montana 101]

do you have (for M4) Stanag magazines, or SD Stanag magazines ?

Bullet speed is different.

[W0lle 1042]

Maybe they heard not the shot but the man falling? It's impossible that a man with ~70kg falling on ground doesn't make any noise, not mentioning the weapon. And this noise definitely is heard in 50m distance. Or have you caught the body while he's falling?

Even though the AI cannot hear a body falling (I think) I still would call that a feature not a bug. Isn't that you who always demands 100% realism?  

Quote[/b] ]such easy mission in OFP was not a problem, here IMPOSSIBLE

I can't hear that no more... In OFP this, in OFP that... this is ArmA, not OFP. If you want everything the same as it was in OFP then simply go and play OFP.

If they are grouped and one of them has been killed the rest will miss him, in OFP it was the same.

As for the boat issue, have you tried another location? Or moving the boats waypoint closer on land.

[sander 14]

Hi,

Instead of using a TRANSPORT UNLOAD waypoint for disembarking troops it may be an alternative to use a regular MOVE waypoint for the vehicle and then put in the On Act.: field a range of unassignvehicle statements for the embarked troops. This will unload the passengers referred to on the vehicle reaching the waypoint. This will require you to name the embarked units though. So for example if you have a vehicle with passengers named infantryman1, infantryman2 and infantryman3 the On Act.: field for the move waypoint would have unassignvehicle infantryman1; unassignvehicle infantryman2; unassignvehicle infantryman3;. In my experience this has been a more dependable way of unloading troops than using synchronised UNLOAD and TRANSPORT UNLOAD waypoints in Armed Assault.

BIS Wiki: unassignvehicle

So for a beach landing of troops:

- have named troops start out embarked on a boat, preferably set to Aware

- place a move waypoint for the troops inland, to limit their chance of loitering in the water and then dropping their kit

- place waypoint for the boat on the shoreline and add unassignvehicle statement for each soldier

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Sander

[vilas 473]

"Or have you caught the body while he's falling?"

<

Wolle , i know that you are angry for not donating my models to CWR, your spitefull comment is "CWR revenge" for "every CWR member to spite when Vilas says a word"

it is very sick situation when "competee mod" members are moderators and do not keep "objectivism" cause other mod doesn't donated work for credits after promisses of help which was not fulfilled

if AI hears body falling on bush from 50 meters than it is bug, not feature, i can undertand such feature for 20 meters.

yes, in OFP such mission was possible, here not

concernig getting out in water 50 meters from beach - in 1.08 all was good, in 1.08 they were getting out on land , so it is due to new patch, cause such "desant" missions were good in 1.08 version

[W0lle 1042]

"Or have you caught the body while he's falling?"

<

Wolle , i know that you are angry for not donating my models to CWR, your spitefull comment is "CWR revenge" for "every CWR member to spite when Vilas says a word"

I am not. I asked for your models, you said no. End of discussion, it's not that we must rely on your stuff. And that's all I say about this here as it has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

Quote[/b] ]it is very sick situation when "competee mod" members are moderators and do not keep "objectivism" cause other mod doesn't donated work for credits after promisses of help which was not fulfilled

I'm afraid you have to live with this situation, if you like it or not. And once again you drag your own thread totally off-topic with that same old CWR vs. P'85 issue which, again, has nothing to do with this thread or my above reply.

Quote[/b] ]if AI hears body falling on bush from 50 meters than it is bug, not feature, i can undertand such feature for 20 meters.

What bush? In your initial post you said no word about a bush. And I still say you hear a noise, atleast the weapon makes some noise when falling to ground.

Quote[/b] ]yes, in OFP such mission was possible, here not

And I repeat myself: This is ArmA, not OFP. No one ever said that everything that was possible in OFP is possible in ArmA, too.

If it's not possible, then find a workaround or in worst case forget about the idea and think about something new.

Your constantly whining and complaining changes nothing, or you really expect that the developers now stop their work to fix this issue in ArmA1? Get real man.

Quote[/b] ]concernig getting out in water 50 meters from beach - in 1.08 all was good, in 1.08 they were getting out on land , so it is due to new patch, cause such "desant" missions were good in 1.08 version

Might be that it's now different in 1.14. I haven't tested it yet, maybe someone else will do and comment it. If this is really an issue with 1.14 it might be fixed in the next patch (if there is one that is).

[jerryhopper 285]

i think its because the guy farted while you shot him, and his buddies smelled him. - its a feature, not a bug!

But wolle,

if i were you, i would close this thread.

its the easiest solution, and a proven concept.  

[vilas 473]

soldiers were puted on grass/bushes area

1 cannon D30, 1 soldier near, some 20 meters away dshk, 50 meters away 2 soldiers standing back to those 2, another soldier was walking this way and back

when first man was shot down, rest in half second became watching around and aiming

mission was in night 2 AM

so for me it is another bug of "god-knowledge AI"

none of soldiers were in group, all were "safe-state"

mission was "take away soldiers in base without alarming soviets"

i hope in Arma 2 such thing won't happen

cause now i have mission less for mod :/

Quote[/b] ]its the easiest solution, and a proven concept.

than why the hell troubleshooting tread ?

you farted, your brain farted

no comment

[NoRailgunner 0]

Vilas why you dont add this mission problem in "ARMA - MISSION EDITING & SCRIPTING" forum?

If there is a bug you should mentioned it in "Arma feedback thread - based on 1.14" sometimes a video/mission file can show issues better. You know humans are mostly "eye victims"

[vilas 473]

cause this is not mission editing problem

when i was killing AI from BIS M4SD, MP 5 SD , than it should alow player to be "stealth"

when i am making waypoint "get out" or "transport unload" at beach, than soldiers from boat should get out in this place, not 50 meters away in open sea and swim loosing weapons

this is not mission bug, it is game bug, that i can't remember in 1.08

i can't remember what was sensibility of AI before 1.14

maybe BIS changed sensibility of units, otherwise silenced weapons and boats makes no sense in game

if in this game AI hears falling dying another AI, than question is "at what distance" < only BIS can answer it

[kklownboy 43]

well the only way to tell the difference from 1.08 and 1.14 is to run both versions with the same basic mission...

A dual boot would be a easy way for you. but its all kinda a waste of time since most people play 1.14, and so if you want players to play your mission you will need to take into account the issues of 1.14...

[vilas 473]

Quote[/b] ]A dual boot would be a easy way for you

game overwritede files during patching, disc-orginality checking software during game launching and tools launching caused scratching to very very often used disc, so i cannot compare now 1.08 and 1.14

but i remember doing "destant" missions in 1.08

i just can't remember how earlier game versions were acting when player was firing using default silenced weapons

i observed other funny thing:

when i was firing from longer distance behind the cliff, other AI do not always react

so maybe in game there is other parameter screwed and it is not falling-body sensitivity?

maybe AI see using any-weapon for some reason ? just like in early version AI knew where from satchel bomb was fired?

this is such distance in night that AI do not fire at my direction, for hangun usage it is too far, but hit enemy is noticed by them

can anyon make mission in editor to check this issue ?

put 3 soldiers

one 25 meters away, another 25 meters from first, third will be 50 meters far away from both

lauch it in night, don't give them NV (use east officer to be safe as tester)

all will be backside to you, you will be at their backs

fire to first soldier as commando-operator and please observe reaction of other 2 soldiers

in my Arma, all other notices death of first

[Dynamax 0]

A "scilenced" is far from that.

Just because you slap on a scilencer and use sub-sonic ammo doesnt mean you'r weapon scilent at all. SD weapons are still loud, and you can clearly hear the action(the moving parts like the bolt assembly) cycling from quite a distance. The notion that a scilencer makes a weapon scilent is compleat Hollywood garbage. Scilencers are used to lower the report of a weapon when used either in a confined space (so the operator wont loose his/her hearing)where sub-sonic ammo does the job(ie: close quarters battles), or on a sniper/marksmen platform where normal ammo is used but a scilencer is used to muffle the shot from a good distance (200 meters+).

differnt weapons

[Placebo 28]

i think its because the guy farted while you shot him, and his buddies smelled him. - its a feature, not a bug!

But wolle,

if i were you, i would close this thread.

its the easiest solution, and a proven concept.  

Spamming troubleshooting threads is completely unacceptable, if you have nothing constructive to say then stay out.

Vilas despite the provocation you should know better than to react angrily to someone, no matter how stupid the comment by them, your recent attitude slide has been noticed by everyone and I hope it will soon be over as your tantrums are becoming tedious.

[mr.g-c 6]

Quote[/b] ]Instead of using a TRANSPORT UNLOAD waypoint for disembarking troops it may be an alternative to use a regular MOVE waypoint for the vehicle and then put in the On Act.:

Yes, i also found out that during any of the later patches "Transport Unload" is not working anymore on dedicated servers..

It was however working before around 1.04 Version AFAIK (not sure though...)

Instead i use some little script which moves a transport to a desired position (map marker) and then i do the same with "unassignvehicle". Further i added "waituntil count crew == *number*" and then it moves to next waypoints.

[max power 21]

A "scilenced" is far from that.

Just because you slap on a scilencer and use sub-sonic ammo doesnt mean you'r weapon scilent at all. SD weapons are still loud, and you can clearly hear the action(the moving parts like the bolt assembly) cycling from quite a distance. The notion that a scilencer makes a weapon scilent is compleat Hollywood garbage. Scilencers are used to lower the report of a weapon when used either in a confined space (so the operator wont loose his/her hearing)where sub-sonic ammo does the job(ie: close quarters battles), or on a sniper/marksmen platform where normal ammo is used but a scilencer is used to muffle the shot from a good distance (200 meters+).

differnt weapons

I don't have anything to add to the thread but I want to say that I enjoyed watching that video from the 80s.

[vilas 473]

thanx for source about silencers, i will rework my weapons more but seems i found source of bug you call feature

AI do not hear falling body

you can kill one AI when next AI is 5 meters away, and it will not hear him IF !!!

if he is shot in head

when you will shot his back, he will die too, but than other AI will hear him dying

sometimes AI dying shouts, but not when hit in head

so it seems that :

- kill in head, other AI do not hear body falling 5 meters away

- kill in spine/heart and other AI hears even from 50 meters

even if this AI won't shout

[max power 21]

I don't know if this was the intention of the devs but if you shoot someone through the torso, it might be a fatal injury but the victim won't be killed instantaneously. If you shoot someone through the head, chances are very high that they will be rendered instantly unconscious.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

I don't have anything to add to the thread but I want to say that I enjoyed watching that video from the 80s.

Yes, very interesting to see the HEL suppressor on the

ArmaLite rifle at 3:10.

[KeyCat 131]

Sorry for catching this a bit late but IMO vilas have a valid point here!

I don't know if this AI behaviour is by design or actually a bug but a couple of months ago I experimented with this myself.

It's impossible to make a proper stealth mission since the AI have a 6th sense and automaticly detects when you shoot some of their mates with an SD weapon (they don't have to be in the same group) and even if they are to far away to hear it and don't have LOS sight, so there is no way to do a silent kill undetected if others AI are in the vincinity.

I even tested this strange AI behavior by making a custom SD ammo with no sound/muzzle flash at all.

Even using that "test SD ammo" the AI somehow magically detects when you shot the enemy up close with a single headshot from behind. This happend even if the other enemy AI soldier where quite far away (~75 m) and with buildings etc. between you and them (no LOS).

I did my test with 1.14 but I see the same result with 1.15 Beta. If there is some interest I can dig up my simple test mission for others to try it out, just let me know...

Maybe this is isn't a bug but instead by design, only BIS could tell, but it sure would be nice to see this behaviour gone in ArmA II so good/proper stealth missions would be possible to make.

Maybe this should be mentioned in the 1.15 Beta feedback thread as well?

/KC

[mr.g-c 6]

Very Good Point here Keycat! I would be very interested in such a test-mission.

[wipman 1]

Hi, this bug it's really big, i hope that they solve it some day; even if it's

just for the ArmA2 and we get stunk with this crap in the ArmA. Let's C ya

[KeyCat 131]

I would be very interested in such a test-mission.

Sure, I will dig out my simple test mission and notes later tonight (at latest tomorrow) and make it available here...

Btw, glad to see some more interest in this issue since I really like sneaky co-op missions but as it stands it's impossible to execute "proper tactics" due to this AI bug/design...

/KC